Hate Speech Public Consultation

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 06:23PM

RandRuns wrote: »

It requires no interpetation, it is there in black and white. Stop lying.

It is not there in black and white. It is a faulty interpretation.

suicide_circus · 17-12-2020 06:25PM

How does it feel to be part of the establishment I wonder?

17-12-2020 06:29PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

How does it feel to be part of the establishment I wonder?

They are well above the Angry Masses, looking down....

Nermal · 17-12-2020 06:34PM

The US gets this right.

The 'imminent lawless action' and 'fighting words' exceptions properly balance public order and free speech.

Nothing more is necessary.

Gatling · 17-12-2020 06:37PM

Coming to your from door soon .

The thought police and we know how thats working in the UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-51501202

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 06:44PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm wishing for this

That is clear.

Martin Niemöller had people exactly like you in mind when he wrote this;

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 06:58PM

RandRuns wrote: »

That is clear.

Martin Niemöller had people exactly like you in mind when he wrote this;

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Oh God that quote....what's next? The one about "I don't agree with what you said but I would die to defend your right to say it"? Yeah sure you would love.

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 07:03PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Oh God that quote....what's next? The one about "I don't agree with what you said but I would die to defend your right to say it"? Yeah sure you would love.

I knew you'd hate both those quotes, opponents of free speech always do!

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 07:08PM

RandRuns wrote: »

I knew you'd hate both those quotes, opponents of free speech always do!

Because they're trite

eagle eye · 17-12-2020 07:11PM

Look it's quite simple, those formerly known as liberal thinkers now fancy themselves as fascists.
Instead of looking to improve social justice they now want to shut everybody down.

Gatling · 17-12-2020 07:20PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Look it's quite simple, those formerly known as liberal thinkers now fancy themselves as fascists.
Instead of looking to improve social justice they now want to shut everybody down.

This is exactly what it going to happen ,

Could be a boards killer ?

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 07:27PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Because they're trite

Because they expose people like you as the hypocrites you are.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 17-12-2020 07:29PM

Gatling wrote: »

This is exactly what it going to happen ,

Could be a boards killer ?

Online discussion killer full stop.

Freedom of speech is over if this comes in.

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 07:38PM

RandRuns wrote: »

Because they expose people like you as the hypocrites you are.

What's hypocritical. I've never claimed to be pro unrestricted free speech.

Eric Cartman · 17-12-2020 07:47PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

What's hypocritical. I've never claimed to be pro unrestricted free speech.

Unrestricted free speech is a pillar of a free society and should absolutely be enshrined in human rights. Its more of a right than getting married or aborting a child or choosing a gender etc.. without absolute free speech you have a totalitarian society.

This does not trump libel , people should be free to say what they want but if its untrue about a person or company they can still be sued.

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 07:49PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

What's hypocritical. I've never claimed to be pro unrestricted free speech.

I know.

The people who cry loudest about their rights are always the most enthusiastic about infringing on the rights of others.

Banana Republic 1 · 17-12-2020 07:49PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Unrestricted free speech is a pillar of a free society and should absolutely be enshrined in human rights. Its more of a right than getting married or aborting a child or choosing a gender etc.. without absolute free speech you have a totalitarian society.

Or a Donald Trump presidency

Eric Cartman · 17-12-2020 07:59PM

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Or a Donald Trump presidency

Theres a thread for that, he lost, get over it, stop letting him have free real estate in your mind.

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 08:10PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Unrestricted free speech is a pillar of a free society and should absolutely be enshrined in human rights. Its more of a right than getting married or aborting a child or choosing a gender etc.. without absolute free speech you have a totalitarian society.

This does not trump libel , people should be free to say what they want but if its untrue about a person or company they can still be sued.

That's exactly this situation. You can say what you want but you may be prosecuted. What's the difference?

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 08:10PM

RandRuns wrote: »

I know.

The people who cry loudest about their rights are always the most enthusiastic about infringing on the rights of others.

Who are you debating here? Some imaginary foe? I've never mentioned my own rights.......

Odhinn · 17-12-2020 08:30PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Unrestricted free speech is a pillar of a free society and should absolutely be enshrined in human rights. ...............

Should be, perhaps, but its not the case here.

You have a right to freely express your convictions and opinions (Article 40.6.1.i). However, that right can be limited in the interests of public order and morality. You can also not use this right to defame someone else as this would interfere their constitutional right to a good name.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/irish_constitution_1/constitution_fundamental_rights.html

17-12-2020 08:44PM

Does anyone else wonder where the demand for this legislation is coming from? I don't think it's really from the clodhoppers in Fine Gael who are helping it along. It's certainly not coming from the electorate.

Is it coming from the IMF? Was it a condition of the bailout? This kind of legislation could have been planned for years. We already have a hint from Lukashenko in Belarus that the IMF made severe Covid restrictions a condition of their proposed bailout. What other conditions come with these bailouts that we don't know about?

17-12-2020 09:12PM

You all just had to have your fun on that Helen McEntee thread a while back, didn't you? Now you see what can happen.

For this to work, surely it would require all platforms to require user authentication (passport etc)? Which is a problem in itself because some people are always going to need to remain anonymous. Otherwise, it'll just be a boon for VPN suppliers. Hell, even incognito mode might do the trick.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 09:23PM

GarIT wrote: »

And you made bull**** accusations against me but are happy to ignore them now.

What is the relevance of my discussion with another poster? You invented stuff about another poster and also stated that legislation regarding threats was on the thread. It wasn't. A couple of lines were with no link to the actual statute or date for its enactment.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 09:27PM

GarIT wrote: »

Tbh these type of things and people telling me I can't experience discrimination as a straight white man is pushing me to the far right even though I'm liberal on most things like gay marriage, abortion, sex work, euthanasia and drugs. I'm even for equal rights between genders and ending racism but I'm strongly against quotas and censorship of non-volient things.

In summary, legislation stopping you from insulting or threatening people will force you to join the Nazis. Seems well thought through.

SexBobomb · 17-12-2020 09:30PM

At least this shows the Irish Governments position on cases like Charlie Hebdo. It appears they are not on the side of the magazine.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 09:44PM

biko wrote: »

Farmer Michel comedian removed from FB from "hate speech". It can happen to anyone, and will.
If you give an idiot a hammer they will start using it, because they want to, and also to show they are productive and they have earned the hammer..

https://twitter.com/SirStevoTimothy/status/1321424588702654472?s=20

He got the reasons wrong, wasn't hate speech.. He's back on Facebook. They'd suspended him and others briefly in the run-up to the US election as they'd posted stuff about it. Facebook were over-zealous in shutting down stuff and communicated badly with those people.

http://https://www.facebook.com/sirstevotimothyofficial

.

TheValeyard · 17-12-2020 10:00PM

SexBobomb wrote: »

At least this shows the Irish Governments position on cases like Charlie Hebdo. It appears they are not on the side of the magazine.

They are on the side of whoever screams the most.

This is dangerous legislation and should be resisted.

Strumms · 17-12-2020 10:10PM

Hate speech should not be criminalized.

I’d rather somebody be facilitated to publish and air views, unedited no matter how unpopular, how out of touch, how insulting or even hateful... at least that way we know XX person is a bigot, a wanker, a whatever... instead of somebody being seemingly being able to hide... they can still BE that person but just encouraged to hide it.

GarIT · 17-12-2020 10:30PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

In summary, legislation stopping you from insulting or threatening people will force you to join the Nazis. Seems well thought through.

I said pushing me towards not had made me become and it's a large number of factors not just this. Couple years ago I would have been thinking the far right are all absolute nuts. But seeing how far the left can go has had me occasionally agreeing with what someone on the right has said. Most of them are still absolute nuts.

There is no right in Ireland anyway that you could actually vote for. Renua are religious nuts, the nationalist party are racist nuts, aontu are anti abortion nuts.

Still I'm not delighted about everywhere being a safe space for snowflakes and me not being eligible for promotion because we have to fill our female quota in management.

Hate Speech Public Consultation

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