Hate Speech Public Consultation

jam_mac_jam · 17-12-2020 02:21PM

GT89 wrote: »

Wonder will the Gardai become more focused on hate speech than on actual crime now like the UK police

Its a complete waste of time. yes, obviously if you are harassing somebody online or threatening them you can do real harm but there are investigations in the UK for mean comments or jokes on Twitter.

Its pathetic Stassi stuff.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 02:22PM

GarIT wrote: »

Yes there has. Unless you are trying to argue the threat of sexual assault doesn't cover threat of rape.

You're making stuff up, as you have been with another poster here. There has been no legislation whatsoever referred to on this thread. Enlighten me if you have legislation covering rape threats. If unable to I'll do the work for you and quote the law that could potentially be used but currently isn't.

The new laws on hate speech will go a long way to correcting the legal lacuna the prosecution service and police find themselves in.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 02:23PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Do you need somebody to read it to you? its just above.

So quote the legislation and year of statue book entry then.

XVII · 17-12-2020 02:23PM

aren't boards public debates

John Doe1 · 17-12-2020 02:23PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yes, those statements would all be considered "hate speech" by some. Or you get the bull**** dogwhistle response.

It will be in your house next. Once its acceptable to be illegal online.

Slippery slope.

I agree, censorship never works and people will still hold their opinions. It may actually backfire and be a boon for the more extremist elements.

We need a centrist party in this country who hold Liberal values but view multiculturalism, identity politics with scepticism.

Also, I am pretty sure this thread will be locked in the not too distant future.

GarIT · 17-12-2020 02:24PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

You're making stuff up, as you have been with another poster here. There has been no legislation whatsoever referred to on this thread. Enlighten me if you have legislation covering rape threats. If unable to I'll do the work for you and quote the law that could potentially be used but currently isn't.

The new laws on hate speech will go a long way to correcting the legal lacuna the prosecution service and police find themselves in.

When I finish work I'll be finding Kiki's posts and quoting them, haven't made up anything.

Are you blind , it's 20ish posts before yours, just go and look at it before you make up bull**** accusations about me.

And if the law isn't used then that's the problem, we don't need more laws covering other things because another law isn't enforced.

17-12-2020 02:25PM

KiKi III wrote: »

Explain to me what I misunderstood. You were going on about people taking all your freedom, no?

Nope. Not what I said. I assume you understand what nuance is.. since you don't have many problems reinterpreting others posts, and then, running with that reinterpretation for the basis of your objection.

As for people twisting what you say, I have GarIT blatantly making up stuff I never said on the last page and then crying when he gets reported for it.

Which is irrelevant to me. That's between you and him/her.

KiKi III · 17-12-2020 02:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. Not what I said. I assume you understand what nuance is.. since you don't have many problems reinterpreting others posts, and then, running with that reinterpretation for the basis of your objection.

What was the correct interpretation of the post where you said “It doesn’t matter how effective it is, as long as you have any little bit of freedom left” - that might not be word for word but it’s pretty close.

I’m genuinely at a loss as to what you actually meant if it wasn’t what I interpreted so please do clarify.

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 02:28PM

GarIT wrote: »

When I finish work I'll be finding Kilo's posts and quoting them, haven't made up anything.

Are you blind , it's 20ish posts before yours, just go and look at it before you make up bull**** accusations about me.

And if the law isn't used then that's the problem, we don't need more laws covering other things because another law isn't enforced.

I've gone through the thread. No legislation quoted. If there are laws in place then name them and years of enactment.

17-12-2020 02:29PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

So quote the legislation and year of statue book entry then.

Post #52.

Considering we're on #78, you're not trying very hard.

Kivaro · 17-12-2020 02:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Post #52.

Considering we're on #78, you're not trying very hard.

To be sure, he will find something wrong with it.
To be sure, to be sure.

GarIT · 17-12-2020 02:33PM

Kivaro wrote: »

To be sure, he will find something wrong with it.
To be sure, to be sure.

He can find anything when he wants to.

Like Arsen Wenger not seeing that his player dived right in front of him but can call out an accidental handball by the other team from 80 yards away.

Eric Cartman · 17-12-2020 02:33PM

Thought id check and ofcourse they re-tweeted it...

Normal One · 17-12-2020 02:37PM

They're a shower of langers down in Cork.

Hate crime.

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 02:39PM

GT89 wrote: »

Wonder will the Gardai become more focused on hate speech than on actual crime now like the UK police

Real Crime Investigation:
Get out in the rain and cold, tracking down potentially hostile witnesses, in places Gardai might not be popular, going door to door asking questions, visiting crime scenes, dealing with distraught victims, and compiling masses of evidence.

"Hate Crime" Investigation:
Sit on your arse in the station, eating doughnuts, trawling Facebook for quotes to cut and paste into a charge sheet.

Which do you think they would prefer?

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 02:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Post #52.

Considering we're on #78, you're not trying very hard.

Another poster and I asked you to name the legislation that can be applied to rape threats. That post mentions no legislation nor year.

To make it simpler the law that could potentially be used is the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997. However the police or prosecutors don't use it as it's too difficult to prove that someone making (often anonymous) threats on social media or public forums has the intent, information or means to carry it out.

Thus the new legislation will cover that lacuna and we will see prosecutions for threats and hate. The use by the aforementioned authorities will have a high threshold and their use will not be for minor offences. It comes down to a simple fact. The Gardai just don't have the numbers.

Kivaro · 17-12-2020 02:45PM

Kivaro wrote: »

To be sure, he will find something wrong with it.
To be sure, to be sure.

:pac:

17-12-2020 02:47PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thought id check and ofcourse they re-tweeted it...

A triumphant day for Pavee Point and abdication of responsibility. Any condemnation of illegal activity will immediately have the caveat hate speech attached to it. So much for freedom of expression. The regression of democracy continues in earnest.

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 02:48PM

From the report on the proposed legislation:

"Additional elements may be needed to help ensure the new legislation is effective, such as allowing alternative verdicts for juries where the aggravating ‘hate’ element is not proven, and including a general provision (for crimes that are not specific hate offences)"

(emphasis mine)

This would appear, from my reading, to imply that:

(A) There is no burden for proof - that one can be convicted even if the charge is not proven

(B) One can be charged with hate speech even if there is no element of hate - meaning one could theoretically be charged for any speech that the authorities don't like

ThewhiteJesus · 17-12-2020 02:50PM

there will always be subtle and smart ways to say what you want that will get around any rule.

17-12-2020 02:50PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Another poster and I asked you to name the legislation that can be applied to rape threats. That post mentions no legislation nor year.

Nobody asked me to name the legislation that can be applied to rape threats. Since I wasn't involved in that discussion.

17-12-2020 02:53PM

Who the hell are these people actively seeking the curtailment of our rights?

Can't stand this nanny state bull****. Will they ever **** off

Seathrun66 · 17-12-2020 02:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody asked me to name the legislation that can be applied to rape threats. Since I wasn't involved in that discussion.

That's true.

Your Face · 17-12-2020 03:06PM

This is what McEntee does - grandstanding on fashionable issues.

GarIT · 17-12-2020 03:08PM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That's true.

And you made bull**** accusations against me but are happy to ignore them now.

LLMMLL · 17-12-2020 03:17PM

Can't say I'm super surprised at which posters seem to be worried about this legislation.....

RandRuns · 17-12-2020 03:21PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can't say I'm super surprised at which posters seem to be worried about this legislation.....

Yes, those free speech loving scumbags. How dare they hold opinions.

BattleCorp · 17-12-2020 03:22PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can't say I'm super surprised at which posters seem to be worried about this legislation.....

You'd have JK Rowling up for hate speech because she had a fictional trans character do some dodgy stuff in a book.

WrenBoy · 17-12-2020 03:23PM

I'll call it now there will be a rise of "far right" groups and organisations in Ireland in the next 10-20 years and they will all be on Prime Time saying "how did this happen ? whats wrong with these people ?"
This is the type of stuff that gives people disillusioned or angry with the world cause to focus their ire on the "other"
Social engineering of this type causes resentment by implying special treatment to some elements of our society over others, these tactics artificially force cohesion and unity on the surface whilst not addressing causes and roots of friction or division.
Im not saying this alone but it can be viewed as part of a collection of initiatives to force cohesion.

GarIT · 17-12-2020 03:23PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can't say I'm super surprised at which posters seem to be worried about this legislation.....

Care to expand on that? Why?

Hate Speech Public Consultation

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