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Sage Barista Express

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭ CWF


    would you buy a pre owned model? and for how much?

    2 years old but only used a handful of times and has all the accesories, not a mark on it.

    I'd pay €250 for it


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭ Samuel T. Cogley


    CWF wrote: »
    I'd pay €250 for it

    Not a coffee expert by any means but I do like a secondhand bargain. It's a piece of mechanical equipment, and something of a precision one at that. I'd be looking for at least 50% off the retail price of around the figure quoted above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ mighty magpie


    Not a coffee expert by any means but I do like a secondhand bargain. It's a piece of mechanical equipment, and something of a precision one at that. I'd be looking for at least 50% off the retail price of around the figure quoted above.

    It sold anyway. My offer of £340 was counteroffered at £370 which i ignored this morning.

    I'm assuming it went from somewhere in between those 2 figures which seems a bit high if new models were on sale for £399 recently. I may wait for something better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭ FileNotFound


    It sold anyway. My offer of £340 was counteroffered at £370 which i ignored this morning.

    I'm assuming it went from somewhere in between those 2 figures which seems a bit high if new models were on sale for £399 recently. I may wait for something better.

    Given the issues that can arise form one of these not being minded well - even sat unused is bad.

    I'd say you're as well off buying new unless you get a super bargain or knoiw the person well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ mighty magpie


    Got sorted for new model on ebay with warranty for £430

    Ordered cleaning tablets and have 1kg of coffee on subscription every 4 weeks.

    Looking forward to arrival to get stuck in.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭ FileNotFound


    Got sorted for new model on ebay with warranty for £430

    Ordered cleaning tablets and have 1kg of coffee on subscription every 4 weeks.

    Looking forward to arrival to get stuck in.

    Sage BE is set up for delivering more than recommended at lower pressure than advised for espresso (Gives less accuracy issues while making ok coffee especially for milk based coffee)
    I count pre-infusion in shot time
    Throw out those double baskets
    Get a britta to prefilter water (heard it helps and mine has been running heavy for a few years so happy to pay a few quid on britta filters)
    Takes more like 10 mins to be truly heated up.
    For proper espresso just pretend the gauge is not there.
    There is a second grinder adjustment in the grinder - may be very important


    Have fun - I'd say order an extra kg just to play with the machine


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    Sage finally got back to me:
    Hello David,

    If I understood correctly the 10 seconds shot is too fast and you would like to slow the extraction, for the extraction problems it is usually the either the beans or the baskets.
    The beans are always marketed fresh, but the filter baskets, especially the single wall ones are particular about the beans.

    I would like for you to turn the grind size to 7, and the grind amount to 3'Oclock, also please use the 1 or 2 Cup dual wall filter basket and try to make a cupt of coffee and let me know how it went.

    My understanding of pressurised baskets is to make up for bad grinds, old beans or preground. I have proper beans and I know the gist of how to make coffee, I just want to get the grind dialled in properly!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭ alec76


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Sage finally got back to me:



    My understanding of pressurised baskets is to make up for bad grinds, old beans or preground. I have proper beans and I know the gist of how to make coffee, I just want to get the grind dialled in properly!
    Customer care crowds dealing with lots of people with ZERO understanding how espresso preparation works, seems to me pretty standard answer for them.
    Keep them writing, try to explain issue bgetter.
    My understanding is
    1) your Grinder is f*cked
    or
    2) your burrs not tuned ( calibrated) properly at factory.
    ps . Your grinder couldn't grind fine enough, that is your trouble ( not the extraction time which is only the symptom of faulty grinder)
    You should return it under the warranty I believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭ FileNotFound


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Sage finally got back to me:



    My understanding of pressurised baskets is to make up for bad grinds, old beans or preground. I have proper beans and I know the gist of how to make coffee, I just want to get the grind dialled in properly!

    You can do a quick test on what alec says above - just pop into a decent coffee shop and ask for some ground beans (espresso grind) and give them a run. If they give you decent shot time then clearly nothing wrong with baskets or machine.


    That said your pressurized basket should give you pressure even when empty - if its not then you have an issue alright.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,071 ✭✭✭✭ ED E


    ED E wrote: »
    Mine arrived via DPD Friday.


    So I've not been super impressed with my results, really really erratic and werent dialing in at all. Use fully automated B2C machines in work and was just using my old stock of pods at home after tricking with it for the first week and just getting frustrated.

    Background: I've lived in houses with proper espresso machines and also one that had only the fake pressure portafilter. So not a total noob but I'm not looking to go full James Hoffman (never going full Hoffman).


    So after procrastinating dealing with it for ages I've finally had time to take another pass. Found the problem.

    The

    Bloody

    INTERNAL

    BURR

    SETTING.


    Seriously, you know some kit arrives with "Do not power on dry//do not run empty//clean before use" stickers. This should really raise that the internal burr default of 6 can be totally wrong and you'll be screwed without changing it. Its a machine targeted at the more newcomer market vs hardcore enthusiasts. Don't hide a game changer setting.

    Gone from 6 to 3 and now the grinder is actually useful. Not dialled in yet but we're in the ballpark at least. I did RTFM btw, doesnt mention it! Idiots in Breville.


    This video shows how to do it. You really need to give it welly, it feels like itll break.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ mighty magpie


    Machine came today and bought some local beans roasted end of november.

    Working with an 18g dose and stopping my machine anywhere between 36-42g output but my issue is that these are all taking less than 15 seconds and the dial is reading is too high.

    I've made my grinder finer step by step but I'm not getting brew time around 25-30 seconds.

    Any ideas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    Machine came today and bought some local beans roasted end of november.

    Working with an 18g dose and stopping my machine anywhere between 36-42g output but my issue is that these are all taking less than 15 seconds and the dial is reading is too high.

    I've made my grinder finer step by step but I'm not getting brew time around 25-30 seconds.

    Any ideas?


    You will need Grind Coarser. I would recommend moving the grind settings from say 6 to 7, only go up one each time until you're happy and ignore the 25-30 second rule, go on taste alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ mighty magpie


    When i grind coarser, the shot just rushes out and i get to my desired output too early.

    Even at the coarser setting, the needle is past the grey area.

    I've seen a few times on various forums to ignore the pressure needle. Should i do this or contact sage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    When i grind coarser, the shot just rushes out and i get to my desired output too early.

    Even at the coarser setting, the needle is past the grey area.

    I've seen a few times on various forums to ignore the pressure needle. Should i do this or contact sage?


    Have you the grind at very Coarser option? It might be the Coffee beans if not fresh and roasted recently. I do the opposite myself, i go by the needle and ignore the shot time and go by the taste and works well for me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 Fall_Guy


    Klopp wrote: »
    Have you the grind at very Coarser option? It might be the Coffee beans if not fresh and roasted recently. I do the opposite myself, i go by the needle and ignore the shot time and go by the taste and works well for me.

    If it is to your taste then that's all that matters at the end of the day, but the conventional wisdom would be to grind finer if the coffee is under extracted and you are already at the max. dose for your portafilter.

    I'd suggest adjusting the internal burr settings if you are finding the shot pouring too quickly when already at the finest setting.


    Edit: i just noted that magpie says the pressure gauge is showing too high. It always shows too high for me also so that wouldn't bother me, but I would be surprised if it was showing as too high and you were still getting a yield of around 40g in 15 seconds. Are you including pre-infusion time in your shot time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    Machine came today and bought some local beans roasted end of november.


    Where did you buy the beans? Have you tried grinding finer? The last option would be to ajust the internal burr


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭ mighty magpie


    Beans are from causeway coffee in belfast and were roasted 27th november.

    I'm not including the pre-influsion in shot time so my 36-40g is taking around 25 seconds now from first drop and looks like a decent pour compared to videos on youtube.

    I just think my issue is the pressure, always high even at under extraction.

    My americano was decent this morning but i've a bit of a cold so couldn't taste it too much. Always find my espresso very bitter but possibly don't know what espresso should taste like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 Fall_Guy


    Beans are from causeway coffee in belfast and were roasted 27th november.

    I'm not including the pre-influsion in shot time so my 36-40g is taking around 25 seconds now from first drop and looks like a decent pour compared to videos on youtube.

    I just think my issue is the pressure, always high even at under extraction.

    My americano was decent this morning but i've a bit of a cold so couldn't taste it too much. Always find my espresso very bitter but possibly don't know what espresso should taste like.

    When people talk about their espresso shot time, the usual method is to start measuring from the moment you turn on the pump, so should include the pre-infusion.

    If you are now taking 25 seconds from first drop to get your desired yield, it's in reality a 35 seconds brew time given there's 10 seconds pre infusion on the barista express. This would definitely be on the long side so a bitter shot not totally surprising.

    If you are finding the coffee bitter you could look at lowering your desired yield (27g would still give a brewing ratio of 1:1.5) and would probably get your shot time to where there's less likelihood of losing balanced flavour from over-extraction.

    The pressure gauge on the machine is far from a reliable indicator from my experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭ CWF


    Beans are from causeway coffee in belfast and were roasted 27th november.

    I'm not including the pre-influsion in shot time so my 36-40g is taking around 25 seconds now from first drop and looks like a decent pour compared to videos on youtube.

    I just think my issue is the pressure, always high even at under extraction.

    My americano was decent this morning but i've a bit of a cold so couldn't taste it too much. Always find my espresso very bitter but possibly don't know what espresso should taste like.

    :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    Questioned Sage about the dual wall basket and this was the response:
    Please note that the dual wall might even work better with your beans, this is why it was suggested. I know the instruction manual mentions that it should be used for pre-ground coffee but at the end of the day, what matters is the beans quality, which changes over time and the 'roasted on' date. Please try this out and let us know how it goes, while we work on having our instruction manual corrected, as it should be.

    So I took their advice. Ended up with 26.5g coffee with grind at 3 o clock position. Put 18.5g in but didn't measure the output. Time from pressing the button was 26 seconds. As black coffee, it was surprisingly not bitter for once. Pressure/resistance finally builds up enough to have a slow extraction. Downside is I can't actual knock the puck out of the portafilter.

    I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭ alec76


    DaveyDave wrote: »

    I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?

    Pressurised baskets great for
    A)beginners
    B )bad equipment
    C) not fresh beans.
    You’ll get decent enough espresso with very little effort.
    BUT you will never pull GREAT espresso with pressurised basket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Questioned Sage about the dual wall basket and this was the response:



    So I took their advice. Ended up with 26.5g coffee with grind at 3 o clock position. Put 18.5g in but didn't measure the output. Time from pressing the button was 26 seconds. As black coffee, it was surprisingly not bitter for once. Pressure/resistance finally builds up enough to have a slow extraction. Downside is I can't actual knock the puck out of the portafilter.

    I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?


    That is odd alright, i use the dual two cup and i don't use the grind setting, i measure out 18g of beans and empty into the dual basket before tamping.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 Fall_Guy


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Questioned Sage about the dual wall basket and this was the response:



    So I took their advice. Ended up with 26.5g coffee with grind at 3 o clock position. Put 18.5g in but didn't measure the output. Time from pressing the button was 26 seconds. As black coffee, it was surprisingly not bitter for once. Pressure/resistance finally builds up enough to have a slow extraction. Downside is I can't actual knock the puck out of the portafilter.

    I'm confused now. Everything I've read and watched says to use the single wall. I have good beans so shouldn't be using the double wall?

    I think your instinct is right, you shouldn't need the dual wall. The grinder isn't performing as it should (not grinding fine enough), and it's cheeky of them to be suggesting that the only reason you aren't getting the requisite pressure when using the single wall portafilter is the quality of your beans.

    I've used beans that were 2 months from roasted and had no problem pulling a nice shot with the single wall portafilter using the same machine as you. And it's not through any barista wizardry on my part, I can assure you :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    I think your instinct is right, you shouldn't need the dual wall. The grinder isn't performing as it should (not grinding fine enough), and it's cheeky of them to be suggesting that the only reason you aren't getting the requisite pressure when using the single wall portafilter is the quality of your beans.

    I've used beans that were 2 months from roasted and had no problem pulling a nice shot with the single wall portafilter using the same machine as you. And it's not through any barista wizardry on my part, I can assure you :D


    I have never used the single wall before as i always buy beans but i am going to try out tomorrow and see how i get on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    It's frustrating. I have spent hours reading and watching how to pull shots and how to use the Barista Express properly. While I have a less bitter tasting coffee with the dual wall basket, I don't want to use it knowing there's more potential for better coffee.

    I'd rather my skill be the limiting factor and not the machine! If I didn't want to learn how to pull a proper shot I would have spent a fraction of the cost on the machine and not have a coffee subscription!

    I'll get back to them and see what they say...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭ Damo 2k9


    My brother used his for the first time today. On stock burr setting, and grind at the lowest (1), the coffee was flying out. Changed burr to 4, still the same. Changed it down to 3, grind size 3, and it's there or thereabouts. Crazy that it has to be changed to such a low setting out of the box. Only for I have had this machine, he would have been fairly snookered.

    (Coffee angel, roasted on the 10th of this month so definitely fresh)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    Klopp wrote: »
    I have never used the single wall before as i always buy beans but i am going to try out tomorrow and see how i get on.



    I always use fresh beans, and the single wall, I have never used the dual wall in the 5 years or so I've had the sage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 Fall_Guy


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    It's frustrating. I have spent hours reading and watching how to pull shots and how to use the Barista Express properly. While I have a less bitter tasting coffee with the dual wall basket, I don't want to use it knowing there's more potential for better coffee.

    I'd rather my skill be the limiting factor and not the machine! If I didn't want to learn how to pull a proper shot I would have spent a fraction of the cost on the machine and not have a coffee subscription!

    I'll get back to them and see what they say...

    I think someone mentioned this earlier, and would be a good way to prove to them that the grinder is the variable that is leading to less than optimal results for you...would you ever buy a bag of fresh beans and get them ground for espresso in the shop? If you can pull a decent shot with them using the single wall portafilter when you get home you have proof positive that your grinder isn't grinding fine enough for its intended purpose?


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭ Klopp


    I switched from dual pressurized to single and used 18g and i got a great shot at 26 secs. I am going to say the crema looked way better and the taste is much nicer, maybe i am convincing myself but i am sold :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭ DaveyDave


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    I think someone mentioned this earlier, and would be a good way to prove to them that the grinder is the variable that is leading to less than optimal results for you...would you ever buy a bag of fresh beans and get them ground for espresso in the shop? If you can pull a decent shot with them using the single wall portafilter when you get home you have proof positive that your grinder isn't grinding fine enough for its intended purpose?

    I just ordered a bag with 3FE, but I have a monthly subscription with Badger & Dodo and barely notice much change with a brand new bag. When I got a new bag last time I weighed out 18g and tried everything all over again to no joy.

    I have a Delonghi burr grinder that I could try instead of the Sage. No coffee shops nearby without having to drive across Dublin.


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