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Eirgrid warns of power outages: what are the EV owners options for cooking the turkey

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    #32
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,812 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But the facts remain that these mega facilities are massive polluters and massive consumers of energy.

    Glass half full / half empty. They are mass users of electricity and mass payers of same. We can speed up the install of giant Atlantic wind farms with the revenue we get from them. Best form of pay back is from guaranteed big users.


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    #33
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Patser wrote: »
    2 options I can think of:

    A) 1 If you have new model leaf, put turkey in Turkey bag on engine.
    2 Drive at 150 Kmh til battery almost gone
    3 Plug into DC charger
    4 Try drive at high speed again
    5 Repeat until Turkey cooked


    B)
    1 Sellotape turkey in very heavy cast iron base cooking tray
    2 Put car on jack, with whatever drive wheels lifted off ground
    3 Put turkey in tray upside down under wheel
    4 Put car in drive and let friction do the rest - a Tesla AWD could cook 4 turkeys this way

    Sellotape wouldn’t do, try duck tape, might work for turkey


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    #34
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    unkel wrote: »
    Glass half full / half empty. They are mass users of electricity and mass payers of same. We can speed up the install of giant Atlantic wind farms with the revenue we get from them. Best form of pay back is from guaranteed big users.

    Ah you know ... don't disenfranchise those who ensured, that no data centre would come to Athenry and ensure, that even those few jobs never would be created.

    Literally . the objections to most of these data centres .. including Amazons new datacentre in the Dublin area literally were hinged on power consumption, when it was a 100% guaranteed paid for supply with 100%+ guarantee, that they'd make sure, that the supply was overspec'd ...and the excess paid for.

    Eliminating a guaranteed income source for Eirgrid, too.

    /M


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    #35
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,062 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    ESB closed the peat burning Shannonbridge Power Station in Offaly on Friday December 11 and will close Lanesborough in Longford on December 18. I know it's a big debate , but the lack of planning in trying to use alternatives sources to fuel those stations has been abysmal by the ESB. They should have been doing something about it at least ten years ago. The Power Station that they closed in Shannonbridge was only built in the early 2000's.It was commissioned in 2004 and now they want to demolish it. Disgraceful on an appalling scale.


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    #36
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,812 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    ESB closed the peat burning Shannonbridge Power Station in Offaly on Friday December 11 and will close Lanesborough in Longford on December 18. I know it's a big debate , but the lack of planning in trying to use alternatives sources to fuel those stations has been abysmal by the ESB. They should have been doing something about it at least ten years ago. The Power Station that they closed in Shannonbridge was only built in the early 2000's.It was commissioned in 2004 and now they want to demolish it. Disgraceful on an appalling scale.

    The only thing disgraceful on an appalling scale is that the ESB actually commissioned a peat burning plant in 2004. It beggars belief. They obviously had zero vision of climate change / pollution back then. Who was the CEO of the ESB at the time? Name and shame please.


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    #37
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Orebro wrote: »
    And we keep on giving planning permission for massive power hungry data centers that contribute nothing to the economy after they're built.

    I was about to dispute this, but then googled and ... holy f**k.

    "By 2028 data centres and other large users will consume 29 per cent of Ireland’s electricity, according to EirGrid, Ireland’s transmission system operator. Worldwide data centres consume about 2 per cent of electricity, a figure set to reach 8 per cent by 2030. Few countries, if any, will match Ireland’s level."


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    #38
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,381 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    How much lifting is "and other large users" doing there? Because that figure still doesn't tell us what the data centres are using.


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    #39
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,273 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    ESB closed the peat burning Shannonbridge Power Station in Offaly on Friday December 11 and will close Lanesborough in Longford on December 18. I know it's a big debate , but the lack of planning in trying to use alternatives sources to fuel those stations has been abysmal by the ESB. They should have been doing something about it at least ten years ago. The Power Station that they closed in Shannonbridge was only built in the early 2000's.It was commissioned in 2004 and now they want to demolish it. Disgraceful on an appalling scale.

    They were only small for plants and they did plenty Of the planning with regards other fuels. But these were refused permission:
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/esb-power-station-plans-refused-4736527-Jul2019/%3famp=1


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unkel wrote: »
    Glass half full / half empty. They are mass users of electricity and mass payers of same. We can speed up the install of giant Atlantic wind farms with the revenue we get from them. Best form of pay back is from guaranteed big users.

    Or we could cut the amount of energy we consume, the big energy users like the Data Centres which provide few jobs and even less permanent as they reap the benefits of our more than generous tax credits, they contribute to the economy but it's tiny compared to their size, energy consumption and jobs provided.

    Cutting and eliminating Data Centre expansion would greatly reduce pollution and consumption meaning less unsightly turbines needed and more power available for when more electric cars take to the road.

    They can put the Data Centres in countries which have much greater green energy on the grid than we do in Ireland and where they have Nuclear power but the attraction here is they pay far less tax than they will in the rest of Europe.


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    #41
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/stockholm-heat-data-centres


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    #42
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,273 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Cutting and eliminating Data Centre expansion would greatly reduce pollution and consumption meaning less unsightly turbines needed and more power available for when more electric cars take to the road.

    It doesn’t work like that cutting off 100MW data Center will also result in 100MW capacity being removed from the grid. So no extra power.

    There’s plenty of power available, just last week was an exception as thermal plant wasn’t available.

    *Posted from the phone using cloud storage hosted in a DC , on a website that is hosted in a DC.....


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    #43
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,403 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I recently found a type 2 to 13a converter which would allow you to plug into a type2 SCP and connect a cooker or microwave at the end (you can even get a type2 to red plug for a 32a cooker). If your house is out but the SCP or FCP near to you have connection, then you could do that :P


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    #44
    kaahooters
    Registered Users Posts: 642 ✭✭✭kaahooters


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or we could cut the amount of energy we consume, the big energy users like the Data Centres which provide few jobs and even less permanent as they reap the benefits of our more than generous tax credits, they contribute to the economy but it's tiny compared to their size, energy consumption and jobs provided.

    Cutting and eliminating Data Centre expansion would greatly reduce pollution and consumption meaning less unsightly turbines needed and more power available for when more electric cars take to the road.

    They can put the Data Centres in countries which have much greater green energy on the grid than we do in Ireland and where they have Nuclear power but the attraction here is they pay far less tax than they will in the rest of Europe.

    none of this information is how it works.


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    #45
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I recently found a type 2 to 13a converter which would allow you to plug into a type2 SCP and connect a cooker or microwave at the end (you can even get a type2 to red plug for a 32a cooker). If your house is out but the SCP or FCP near to you have connection, then you could do that :P
    Wouldn't even need a red one, a 32amp blue would be fine...

    Hmm that would be good for the 2.5kw power washer we have in the yard if I ever want to wash around the house.


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    #46
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,812 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    graememk wrote: »
    Wouldn't even need a red one, a 32amp blue would be fine...

    Hmm that would be good for the 2.5kw power washer we have in the yard if I ever want to wash around the house.

    If only the charger in our cars was bi-directional. Power an appliance up to 7kW (or 22kW in some cases) straight from the car :cool:

    That was the one cool thing about Sono motors. Are they still around? They had a desperate last chance funding round this time last year, but haven't heard from them since.


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    #47
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They can put the Data Centres in countries which have much greater green energy on the grid than we do in Ireland and where they have Nuclear power but the attraction here is they pay far less tax than they will in the rest of Europe.

    So, what you are saying is, that we should kick the data centres out of Ireland, not have that tax income and the fee jobs they create at all, because Eirgrid is too lazy and can not be bothered to comply with green energy generation ?

    Do you know how backwards that sounds ?

    The problem is not datacentres. Removing the data centres is not the solution either.

    The problem, disregardless of consumption, is Eirgrid and the power generation, that it utilizes. End of story. And the money data centres pay Eirgrid actually should help funding a change to greener energy. Without them, there would be less funds to do so.

    /M


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    #48
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,411 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    jusmeig wrote: »
    We discard a days worth of power each night, id get busy storing some of this in hydro/battery etc
    It seems crazy we put in wind (and feck all commercial solar) and turn off peat plants, with no provision for storage for when the wind drops off or the sun does not shine (much)

    Apart from the 100MW or so of batteries commissioned this year and 300MW expected by June 2021. Though the real answer is pumped storage as batteries last only an hour or 2 at best.


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    #49
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,273 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    machiavellianme wrote: »
    Apart from the 100MW or so of batteries commissioned this year and 300MW expected by June 2021. Though the real answer is pumped storage as batteries last only an hour or 2 at best.

    locations for storing pumped hydro is limited.
    Hydrogen is an option that gaining quite a lot of traction


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    #50
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,861 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    unkel wrote: »
    If only the charger in our cars was bi-directional. Power an appliance up to 7kW (or 22kW in some cases) straight from the car :cool:

    That was the one cool thing about Sono motors. Are they still around? They had a desperate last chance funding round this time last year, but haven't heard from them since.


    We'll need to hope Eirgrid can hold out until those Hyundai E-GMP cars come out


    Or just head out and pick up a Honda E

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #51
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/stockholm-heat-data-centres

    Central heating produced by utilities and piped to homes is very common in Scandinavian cities.

    Generally it's produced using gas or oil, but wherever they can they use surplus heat consumption from power plants etc.

    So that approach there is nothing new ... well .. to Scandinavia ... Ireland hasn't even grasped the very concept of central heat distribution in urban environments.

    In Denmark there is a planning requirement on older houses, that they are forced to change to the city heating grid, when their oil boiler is beyond repair. That way many houses have been migrated over the last many decades.

    /M


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    #52
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    Mad_Lad's complaining about datacentres has now forced Google to pull the plug on their datacentres.

    As a result Youtube, Gmail and other google services are down across Europe. Just saying. :p

    /M


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    #53
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,861 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Marlow wrote: »
    Mad_Lad's complaining about datacentres has now forced Google to pull the plug on their datacentres.

    As a result Youtube, Gmail and other google services are down across Europe. Just saying. :p

    /M


    Oh no, how am I going to google all the answers to problems I have in work???


    I'll have to rely on bing :eek:

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #54
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,861 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    OSI wrote: »
    Was it not proposed to use the Apple DC in Athenry as test case for heating local homes using heat from the cooling system in the DC?


    I think the same was proposed for the waste incinerator in Ringsend, the problem is no-one bothered to implement it.


    Because free heating for life apparently isn't worth it :rolleyes:

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #55
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,861 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Marlow wrote: »
    Mad_Lad's complaining about datacentres has now forced Google to pull the plug on their datacentres.

    As a result Youtube, Gmail and other google services are down across Europe. Just saying. :p

    /M


    Maps is down too, does this mean every Tesla is currently lost? They use Google maps as the backend AFAIK



    Thankfully it seems ABRP is still working, either they don't use Google or they've a lot of data already cached so they can keep going without Google services

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #56
    Marlow
    Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    Maps is down too, does this mean every Tesla is currently lost? They use Google maps as the backend AFAIK



    Thankfully it seems ABRP is still working, either they don't use Google or they've a lot of data already cached so they can keep going without Google services

    It was something in relation with accounts. If you used the services anonymously, they worked. It seems to have been fixed now.

    /M


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    #57
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,861 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I wonder how many poor google engineers lost their jobs over that one

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #58
    Creamy Goodness
    Registered Users Posts: 26,556 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    I wonder how many poor google engineers lost their jobs over that one

    none, because if you lost a job over something like that you'd have no engineers left.


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Marlow wrote: »
    So, what you are saying is, that we should kick the data centres out of Ireland, not have that tax income and the fee jobs they create at all, because Eirgrid is too lazy and can not be bothered to comply with green energy generation ?

    Do you know how backwards that sounds ?

    The problem is not datacentres. Removing the data centres is not the solution either.

    The problem, disregardless of consumption, is Eirgrid and the power generation, that it utilizes. End of story. And the money data centres pay Eirgrid actually should help funding a change to greener energy. Without them, there would be less funds to do so.

    /M
    Marlow wrote: »
    Mad_Lad's complaining about datacentres has now forced Google to pull the plug on their datacentres.

    As a result Youtube, Gmail and other google services are down across Europe. Just saying. :p

    /M

    We have to at some point ask ourselves, is all this steel and concrete and it's impact to the environment worth it for our endless thirst for entertainment ? the land needed, the eyesores they construct, not many people work there for their size, they pay way less tax than they would in most places and if we're talking Irish jobs here there is a substantial amount of non nationals employed in the Data Centre industry and a huge amount of jobs are contract and not permanent.

    Apart from paying very little tax in Ireland the Data Centres are here because of the climate, more and more are using forced air rather than needing AC, this has it's advantages and disadvantages, they can be very uncomfortable places to work but as long as the equipment is happy then that's all that matters.

    So lets say future expansion of data centres was banned in Ireland until the grid becomes clean enough and supply issues are resolved and until they don't have to use diesel generation ( at certain times ) the impact to Ireland would be negligible and the Government need to wake up and make them pay what tax they should.

    Again, few Irish Permanent jobs per size of Data Centre. Huge amount of non nationals employed move the DCs to France, they will have to pay a lot more tax there and will contribute to the tax income in France a lot more than in Ireland and they will have a lot more clean Nuclear power and we'll still all be able to waste out lives away looking at endless hours of sh1t lol.

    CBRE might be p1ssed off of course because they look after the electrical end of things in a lot of Data Centres and they are they only ones that I see that have a mostly Irish workforce in the Data Centres while the I.T end of things is easily 50/50 National/non-nationals.

    I.T needs a properly recognized union because a lot of these Multinationals treat People like dirt and get away with it and have high turnovers of staff. CBRE on the other hand don't have such a high turnover of staff, wonder why ?

    Anyone here ever have the misfortune to sit through an Amazon interview and have to study before hand learning off bullsh1t answers to their bullsh1t leadership principles ? woeful company to work for I believe too.


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    I wonder how many poor google engineers lost their jobs over that one
    Creamy Goodness wrote: »
    none, because if you lost a job over something like that you'd have no engineers left.

    What are you talking about no engineers left ? West Dublin has more than enough Data Centres to keep People employed for years.

    They need to build them outside of Dublin, it's ridiculous the amount in West Dublin alone both mega and small.


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    #61
    Joseph SEE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭Joseph SEE


    <<Mod Note: Snipped if you want to discuss general politics go to the politics forum, on this thread stick to the topic of Ireland keeping up with electrical demand with a particular regard to EVs>>


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