My employer wants me to disclose the nature of illness

Rory28 · 14-11-2017 1:11pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Im not the one behaving like a spoilt lunatic. As stated - it is standard policy in many places to expect an independent medical assesment and of course these reports will issue from a named expert - a doctor qualified and specialised in the area - who will state their qualifications and field expertise. Did s/he hink they woukd respond on a post-it? Or just ring wihout giving their name and consultation details and say hi yeah so-and-so is sick - no I dont want to leave
my name or job title or company address - just scratch that down on a scrap of paper and give it to your boss when s/he comes in? People need to exercise a bit of cop on. S/he will be getting their 15k or 20k or 30 k salary balance into their bank account for this - what do they expect -Santa to just lob the cash down their chimney tied around a brick & no questions asked and with no paperwork?

Since when is expecting doctor patient confidentiality acting like a spoilt lunatic?

You have some issues guy.

Phonehead · 14-11-2017 8:03pm

"the specialization of the doctors tells everything"

Just honing on this, so the condition wasn't disclosed but your Doctors credentials makes it possible for people to decipher your condition. I think this is a key point to be honest.

AndrewJRenko · 15-11-2017 1:47pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Im not the one behaving like a spoilt lunatic. As stated - it is standard policy in many places to expect an independent medical assesment and of course these reports will issue from a named expert - a doctor qualified and specialised in the area - who will state their qualifications and field expertise. Did s/he hink they woukd respond on a post-it? Or just ring wihout giving their name and consultation details and say hi yeah so-and-so is sick - no I dont want to leave
my name or job title or company address - just scratch that down on a scrap of paper and give it to your boss when s/he comes in? People need to exercise a bit of cop on. S/he will be getting their 15k or 20k or 30 k salary balance into their bank account for this - what do they expect -Santa to just lob the cash down their chimney tied around a brick & no questions asked and with no paperwork?

For a second time, why do you need to exaggerate the actual situation?

Yes, it should be from a doctor - who may well be an occupational health specialist rather than specific-medical-field-specialist - so their expertise may well not give anything away at all about the nature of the illness.

And if they have half-a-clue about how to do their job, they won't reveal medical details to people who don't have the qualifications to understand and interpret medical details.

davo10 · 15-11-2017 2:21pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Im not the one behaving like a spoilt lunatic. As stated - it is standard policy in many places to expect an independent medical assesment and of course these reports will issue from a named expert - a doctor qualified and specialised in the area - who will state their qualifications and field expertise. Did s/he hink they woukd respond on a post-it? Or just ring wihout giving their name and consultation details and say hi yeah so-and-so is sick - no I dont want to leave
my name or job title or company address - just scratch that down on a scrap of paper and give it to your boss when s/he comes in? People need to exercise a bit of cop on. S/he will be getting their 15k or 20k or 30 k salary balance into their bank account for this - what do they expect -Santa to just lob the cash down their chimney tied around a brick & no questions asked and with no paperwork?

Ok, this is complete trash.

Your employment contract cannot, and never will override a person's right to patient confidentiality. An employer cannot compel a Doctor, even if he/she works for the employer, nor the employee to divulge medical information. A Doctor who does inform a third party against the patients wishes can expect a visit to the Dental Council and a removal of license to practice medicine. An employer who demands confidential information had better have a large cash reserve for the claims that would be taken against them.

Just to clarify, the op can disclose/discuss his/her ailment with the Doctor/occupational therapist, but they cannot under any circumstances divulge that information unless express consent is granted by the op. All the Doctor can do is confirm that the op is unfit for work and estimate time of return.

Frowzy · 16-11-2017 9:10am

JustAThought wrote: »

For someone who is too sick to possibly work the OP certainly have a lot of stanima and ability to runnaround to solicitors, state agencies and comissioners. OP surely you cannot just expect your employer to write you a cheque for 6.months salary and not expect any paperwork to substantiate it, nor any ongoing independent professional opinion into whether this illness is still relevant or whether you have recovered from it. Of.course there will be a trail of independent paperwork and of course your.company will be involved in this chain. You cannnot expect them to reasonably.just undrwrite a half year or.more salary for.you because you say so? You have not indicated what area it is in (workwise) and no doubt your employer would like.to know if they can assign different duties to you that you are fit to do and be able.to get.some value for the 6.months salary you expect to get for no work. Maybe you are waiter but you have a leg injury - well perhaps they could have you sitting and answering the phone. Maybe you are a.coder with kidney issues well perhaps you could work half the time from.home checking code etc. Were I your employer given all the energy you are spending refusing and resisting I would be finding a way to exit you. You sound to be honest like too.much cost and too much trouble. Have you considered what you are rewarding your colleagues or employer with in all of this and what you expect to be given and that you seem to expect this with no questions asked and no independent papertrail? Your doctor coukd be your mate and it is standard practice to ask for a second independent doctor. Of course there will be reports from specialised businesses and professionals and of course these reports will be in writing.

Woah there cowboy before your mouth runs away with you. The OP is posting online about their situation, therefore we can safely assume they’re not working in some Industrial Age Sweat Shop.

Thankfully we have qualified health professionals who can use their many years of training to assess whether or not the OP is fit for work. In this case not one but two doctors have deemed the OP unfit for work, NOT unfit for the job they’re doing, but unfit for work period. Therefore the management team do not have to reply on some jumped up little supervisor with an attitude such as yourself to reassign duties that may aggravate the medical condition further.

The OP could have the ibola virus and still spend all day everyday on the telephone in bed, I bet you wouldn’t want to be working next to them with the threat of catching an airborne virus. Ultimately the well-being of the OP and the entire workforce is paramount in any situation. We’re long since past the point of working people to death then dragging the body out the back door while some other poor soul enters by the front door.

Given your draconian approach to workplace health and safety I won’t even comment on your take on data protection as I’m conscious of the effect removing your knuckles from the ground to scratch your head may have on you. We as a workforce can only be grateful of the strides we have made in industry over the last 300 years and the fact that we now have qualified professionals to make these decisions and deal with situations such as these.

Thanks for your input, I’m sure that everyone who read it went to work thankful that you’re not their employer and this probably made them feel better about their day!

Rachiee · 16-11-2017 9:49am

It was very very clumsy of the insurance company to reveal the drs and location of your appointments. Wait to hear back from the data protection comissioner id be surprised if you didnt have a legitimate case.
For example It would be very simple to say we have verified proof that you have hospital appointmets on such and such dates, rather than saying you have hospital appointment in the GUM clinic on such and such dates. They easily could have redacted any identifying information. Clearly over shared.

Shinsen · 22-05-2018 2:44pm

This took a while. Eventually Data Protection started their investigation. They have issued a letter to the insurance company who disclosed the private information. The letter has just been issued, therefore I guess we have to wait for a while before they go back to DP and they'll continue the investigation from that point.
In relation to my health, I haven't recovered yet. I have been called by my employer for another medical appointment with the occupational therapist. The insurance covers my salary for another two months, then nothing more. I don't know now what are the consequences if the Doctor believes that I am still unfit to work. Will I be dismissed? Or the company will keep my place for another while with no salary? If I am dismissed, I receive Illness benefit from Welfare, will I be entitled to receive job seeker allowance as well? Or shall I apply for disability? I have no idea of what I should or could do.

bada_bing · 22-05-2018 5:25pm

Hi Shinsen,

Sorry to hear about the difficult situation that you're in. I can relate to it as i went through a similar thing 2 years ago, i was suffering from severe chronic pain and my manager was not sympathetic despite seeing me in clearly visible pain on a daily basis. I had to go on sick leave and it lasted much longer than i expected it to. Was only paid sick leave for 2 months and then went on illness benefit after that. If you have paid enough PRSI contributions you'll be entitled to illness benefit for up to 2 years and it requires sick cert from the GP receptionist every month which you don't have to pay for. The benefit is the same amount as jobseeker's allowance.

I never went back to that company and like your company they were hassling me for updates even though i went to a GP arranged by them who verified that i was unfit for work at the time. Since they were no longer paying me anything and i was still unfit to work so i resigned as i had no intention of ever working for them again after their treatment towards me. I would never work for a company that has no sick policy in place as it wasn't indicated in the employee handbook at the time.

Hopefully you should have no problem applying for illness benefit. You can ask me any questions about it if you like.

clio_16v · 24-05-2018 12:26pm

bada_bing wrote: »

Was only paid sick leave for 2 months

I would never work for a company that has no sick policy in place

They paid you for 2 months to be out sick. That sounds like a generous sick policy to me. What do people expect? To be paid indefinitely to be out sick?

You are sick, that's unfortunate. Why is it your employers responsibility to look after you?

bada_bing · 24-05-2018 1:00pm

No i don't expect to be paid indefinitely and i would've been happy with half pay after 2 months. Try to imagine managing on €188 a week when you've got medical expenses to pay for. I wonder if you'd change your tune if you found yourself unable to work for a few months due to being in a car accident or undergoing treatment for disease such as cancer. We don't need to look to the US model and i'm grateful for that otherwise we'd have the same problems as them.

sbsquarepants · 24-05-2018 1:18pm

I can guarantee that if I ring up work and say I won't be in for 6 months because I'm sick - the very first question will be "what is wrong with you"?

It doesn't seem all that unreasonable a question to me, even if they weren't paying you but certainly not when they are! Why the need for all this secrecy?

Quite frankly - if I was the one getting the "I'm not obliged to disclose" routine off the OP - I'd be extremely suspicious of their bona fides.

Squatter · 24-05-2018 2:26pm

bada_bing wrote: »

Try to imagine managing on €188 a week when you've got medical expenses to pay for.

I wonder if you'd change your tune if you found yourself unable to work for a few months due to being in a car accident or undergoing treatment for disease such as cancer.

If your household income is only €188 a week then you're eligible for a Medical Card.

runawaybishop · 24-05-2018 2:51pm

bada_bing wrote: »

No i don't expect to be paid indefinitely and i would've been happy with half pay after 2 months. Try to imagine managing on €188 a week when you've got medical expenses to pay for. I wonder if you'd change your tune if you found yourself unable to work for a few months due to being in a car accident or undergoing treatment for disease such as cancer. We don't need to look to the US model and i'm grateful for that otherwise we'd have the same problems as them.

That's what insurance is for. If you are unable to work your employer is under no obligation to keep supporting you and can let you go.

Jay Dee · 24-05-2018 6:40pm

A Question :

Did you have this medical condition, when you took the job ?
Did you disclose it at the interview ?

Or

Did you suffer a workplace accident/injury ?
Did you report it to the relevant area/ person. ?

Thee seems to be no mention of this anywhere, and obviously the answer makes a difference..

Jay

Shinsen · 08-12-2020 7:57pm

Dear all,

Almost three years have gone since my first message.
I sent my claim to Data Protection Commission. This took quite a while.
Eventually they came back to me with a Decision letter. In their long explanation, they came to a conclusion that highlights that a breach has taken place on three points.
The other part has been informed as well on the same.
Apparently, I could seek legal advice and possibly get some recompensation. However, I have decided not to go down that road.
I thought it was worth it to post the outcome in here, in case other people might experience a similar situation.
And I want to thank you all the users who have advised me on this matter.

AndrewJRenko · 08-12-2020 8:17pm

Shinsen wrote: »

Dear all,

Almost three years have gone since my first message.
I sent my claim to Data Protection Commission. This took quite a while.
Eventually they came back to me with a Decision letter. In their long explanation, they came to a conclusion that highlights that a breach has taken place on three points.
The other part has been informed as well on the same.
Apparently, I could seek legal advice and possibly get some recompensation. However, I have not decided to go down that road.
I thought it was worth it to post the outcome in here, in case other people might experience a similar situation.
And I want to thank you all the users who have advised me on this matter.

Thanks for the update, it's very helpful to see the outcome.

Was the breach specifically in relation to the employer passing information to the insurance company, or was there other breaches involved?

If you're up to it, it might be helpful to know how the sick leave situation worked out - did you ever get back to work with the employer?

Shinsen · 09-12-2020 10:48pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Thanks for the update, it's very helpful to see the outcome.

Was the breach specifically in relation to the employer passing information to the insurance company, or was there other breaches involved?

If you're up to it, it might be helpful to know how the sick leave situation worked out - did you ever get back to work with the employer?

Hi Andrew,

The breach has taken places based on three sections:
Section 2(1)(a) "the data or, as the case may be, the information constituting the data shall have been obtained, and the data shall be processed, fairly"
Section 2(1)(c)(ii) "shall not be used or disclosed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes"
Section 2B(1)(b) "requires that a data controller shall not process sensitive data unless sections 2 and 2A of the Acts are complied with and, in addition, one of the conditions listed in section 2B(1)(b)(i) to (xiii) is met.
I haven't gone back to my employer, I am on Invalidity now.

beachhead · 10-12-2020 12:06am

Shinsen wrote: »

Yes they are, in the contract it says that employees are entitled to up to six months paid sick leave.
I cannot comment on disclosing the nature of illness, that's the reason why I've opened the forum for an advice. However, it's a serious and delicate condition and not even doctors know exactly what it is, for this reason I need time for medical tests and examinations.

You are not obliged to disclose your illness.The employer should be satisfied with the opinion of 2 GPs especially when one is the company doctor.The individual asking you about your illness may be attempting to decide your future with the company.If,your illness is going to be long term they could presumably start dismissal proceedings after a year has elasped.Any thing they decide will be governed by the terms of your contract.

AndrewJRenko · 11-12-2020 10:12pm

Shinsen wrote: »

Hi Andrew,

The breach has taken places based on three sections:
Section 2(1)(a) "the data or, as the case may be, the information constituting the data shall have been obtained, and the data shall be processed, fairly"
Section 2(1)(c)(ii) "shall not be used or disclosed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes"
Section 2B(1)(b) "requires that a data controller shall not process sensitive data unless sections 2 and 2A of the Acts are complied with and, in addition, one of the conditions listed in section 2B(1)(b)(i) to (xiii) is met.
I haven't gone back to my employer, I am on Invalidity now.

Thanks - and did the breaches related specifically to the information given by the employer to the insurance company?

I presume the move to invalidity benefit was the company's decision?

My employer wants me to disclose the nature of illness

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