Chargers on car ferries

the_amazing_raisin · 07-12-2020 3:30pm #1

So I've noticed that Irish ferries are now offering EV charging on some of their services (W.B Yeats and Ulysses)

https://www.irishferries.com/uk-en/frequently-asked-questions/general-information/electric-cars/

I'm wondering has anyone used them and how was the experience? Were there problems getting access to the charger? Any indications of how many chargers were on board and what charging speed your were getting?

It looks like they've got Pod Point untethered units, so probably 7kW max unless they went for 3 phase. 7kW over 3.5 hours to the UK would give 24kWh, which isn't too bad. Hopefully they didn't go for the 3.6kW units

Anyone know if other ferry operators are offering something similar? It'd definitely be handy for people who needs to travel some distance to the ferry so they can arrive with a decent charge in the battery

liamog · 07-12-2020 3:42pm

I used it on a trip to Wales last year, I told the people at the check in that we'd reserved the EV charger, they asked me to put the hazards on while approaching the ferry. When I got to the ferry I told the guy had booked the charger and he directed us to the right place.
It all went pretty smooth.

AndyBoBandy · 07-12-2020 3:54pm

Guilleme covered it in a video not so long ago, going from Dublin to France.

Looks to be 3-4kW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uYC8IilLT8

We were planning on taking the new EV on a trip to France this year (then Covid happened) and thought this would be great to use, but for me it wouldn't really as I could make it to the Port from home with about 90% left..(so it would seem like hogging it for only 10% extra top up) likewise on the return from France.. Dont think I'd need it as I'd only need 10-15% to get home (extra 5% for all the wine on board :rolleyes: )

Great offering though, and they should have more.. 1 per ship is a start, but they could have at least 4/8 of them...

the_amazing_raisin · 07-12-2020 4:15pm

Probably a 3.6kw unit then, handy for the France route but not much use for UK.

It'd probably be more useful on the way home as you don't need to worry about having enough battery to get from the port to home

Although, as you pointed out, you don't need much battery if you're around Dublin

It's a shame there's only 1, hopefully they'll add more. I noticed from Irish ferries booking they don't seem to be letting you book the charger on W.B. Yeats, I wonder if it's broken. Hopefully gets fixed soon.

Personally, I'd probably add it to my booking a day or so in advance, assuming it wasn't booked. Let someone who might need it get a shot at it

zg3409 · 09-12-2020 11:07am

Have a look on plugshare app for the entry next to Dublin port. It lists the ferry charger and the same lusting on the Wales/France side. Note you need to reserve at time of booking.

There is also multiple 50+kW chargers next to Dublin port so if you arrive early you can fill up before ferry in case something goes wrong. I would never presume it would work and have a back up plan. Make sure you are booking with the correct company and actual ferry name. They change around ferries at different times of the year.

zenith90 · 09-12-2020 5:41pm

Charger on WB Yeats back in action, used it yesterday.
~3kW so good for top-up only on a 4hr Irish Sea crossing.

Kramer · 09-12-2020 6:11pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

and they should have more.. 1 per ship is a start, but they could have at least 4/8 of them...

There were at least 2 on the WB Yeats the last 2 times we sailed, possibly 4, maybe 2 on each deck/level. One at the front, either side of the central stairs/lift block.

It's arguably the least green way of charging an EV - all power being derived from heavy oil - ships aren't very green. I'd still rather arrive in Cherbourg with a full battery but if not going far etc., it would be greener to recharge from the grid in France.

n97 mini · 09-12-2020 6:17pm

Kramer wrote: »

There were at least 2 on the WB Yeats the last 2 times we sailed, possibly 4, maybe 2 on each deck/level. One at the front, either side of the central stairs/lift block.

It's arguably the least green way of charging an EV - all power being derived from heavy oil - ships aren't very green. I'd still rather arrive in Cherbourg with a full battery but if not going far etc., it would be greener to recharge from the grid in France.

In the grand scheme of things charging an EV won't make any difference to oil consumption. They're not charging anything for it, I'd say they haven't noticed it on the fuel bill. Headwinds, high seas etc will have a big impact.

Point taken though. They may as well be burning coal.

ELM327 · 09-12-2020 6:21pm

I used it coming back from the UK with the car. 16a single phase and low voltage, giving about 2-2.5kW.

On a longer trip (eg to france, 13 hrs) it would be more worthwhile

Marlow · 09-12-2020 6:26pm

Kramer wrote: »

It's arguably the least green way of charging an EV - all power being derived from heavy oil - ships aren't very green. I'd still rather arrive in Cherbourg with a full battery but if not going far etc., it would be greener to recharge from the grid in France.

As "n97 mini" pointed out, it won't make much difference in the greater scheme nor on their fuel consumption, if any.

I think it's a great feature to have for the Cherbourg crossing. Especially, when you're planning on going quite a distance, once you arrive there.

/M

Kramer · 09-12-2020 6:33pm

Marlow wrote: »

I think it's a great feature to have for the Cherbourg crossing. Especially, when you're planning on going quite a distance, once you arrive there.

Oh I agree - it's great & I've used it on both the outbound & return legs on my last two trips to Cherbourg as we've still got a 2+ hour drive home from Dublin port when we get back.
Funnily enough, the last time we got on, a BEV Ioniq 28 got on directly behind us & didn't charge. There was a charge point free. I assume he didn't need the charge - probably a Dub :pac:.

AndyBoBandy · 09-12-2020 6:55pm

Moneypoint burns coal to generate electricity.... Lough Ree burns peat.

In fact, most Gas Turbines in Ireland are configured for dual fuel (gas & diesel), so if there’s ever a disruption to our gas supply, our electricity will be coming from dirty diesel.....

(Sites with dual fuel machines typically have a 24 hour diesel contingency in tanks onsite for such a scenario)

the_amazing_raisin · 09-12-2020 7:41pm

Marlow wrote: »

I think it's a great feature to have for the Cherbourg crossing. Especially, when you're planning on going quite a distance, once you arrive there.

/M

Agreed, luckily there are dual 50kW chargers in the port now, so there's another option. But I imagine most people wouldn't be looking forward to a 30 min charging stop as soon as they get off the boat

09-12-2020 7:44pm

Marlow wrote: »

I think it's a great feature to have for the Cherbourg crossing. Especially, when you're planning on going quite a distance, once you arrive there.

/M

Agree, however I would hesitate to rely on the service if I have a long drive the far end of a ferry(esp with a family). You just never know, they could have an issue with chargers(may not be working at all or may stop working 5 mins after walking away from car) / be over booked, the last thing I would want is to be getting off the boat facing a long drive and have to mess unexpectedly with chargers. Allow an extra 45mins and charge in roslare / Dublin before boarding would be my approach

kanuseeme · 09-12-2020 7:51pm

That works until some one allows 50 minutes and your stuck waiting till he finishes

Cyrus · 09-12-2020 7:53pm

Kramer wrote: »

There were at least 2 on the WB Yeats the last 2 times we sailed, possibly 4, maybe 2 on each deck/level. One at the front, either side of the central stairs/lift block.

It's arguably the least green way of charging an EV - all power being derived from heavy oil - ships aren't very green. I'd still rather arrive in Cherbourg with a full battery but if not going far etc., it would be greener to recharge from the grid in France.

They are a bit greener how the sulphur levels have been decreased from 3.5 percent to 0.5 since the start of this year and given the loads they carry ships aren’t the worst .

Marlow · 09-12-2020 8:02pm

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Agree, however I would hesitate to rely on the service if I have a long drive the far end of a ferry(esp with a family). You just never know, they could have an issue with chargers(may not be working at all or may stop working 5 mins after walking away from car) / be over booked, the last thing I would want is to be getting off the boat facing a long drive and have to mess unexpectedly with chargers. Allow an extra 45mins and charge in roslare / Dublin before boarding would be my approach

The first supercharger from Cherbourg is in Caen, which is 125km from the ferry. And there is at least 2 places with 50kW chargers in Cherbourg itself.

So there is no issue really, to get a charge after you depart the ferry, should you not be able to charge on the ferry.

The same as coming of the ferry in Dublin.

Generally, it's probably always a better plan to charge coming off the ferry. You waste less time that way.

/M

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 09-12-2020 8:07pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Moneypoint burns coal to generate electricity....

Not any more, it’s more or less shut down.

the_amazing_raisin · 09-12-2020 8:12pm

Estella Crashing Chopstick wrote: »

Not any more, it’s more or less shut down.

I thought it broke last year but was running again?

Fingers crossed it gets shut down, they source the coal from some dodgy mining company in south america

the_amazing_raisin · 09-12-2020 8:14pm

Marlow wrote: »

The first supercharger from Cherbourg is in Caen, which is 125km from the ferry. And there is at least 2 places with 50kW chargers in Cherbourg itself.

So there is no issue really, to get a charge after you depart the ferry, should you not be able to charge on the ferry.

The same as coming of the ferry in Dublin.

Generally, it's probably always a better plan to charge coming off the ferry. You waste less time that way.

/M

According to Chargemap the two chargers in Cherbourg are busted

I'd say it's best to budget the time for a charge before or after the ferry, but use the charger on the ferry if possible and view the time saving as a bonus

09-12-2020 8:14pm

Marlow wrote: »

The first supercharger from Cherbourg is in Caen, which is 125km from the ferry. And there is at least 2 places with 50kW chargers in Cherbourg itself.

So there is no issue really, to get a charge after you depart the ferry, should you not be able to charge on the ferry.

The same as coming of the ferry in Dublin.

Generally, it's probably always a better plan to charge coming off the ferry. You waste less time that way.

/M

All good information, my angle was you get off the ferry and you typically have a long drive ahead with family. I’d like to tackle that with a full battery and not to have to go to plan b because there was an issue charging on boat. Therefore I’d plan to arrive at ferry as close to 100% as possible even it means allowing extra time for a top up in Dublin / roslare

L1011 · 09-12-2020 8:17pm

Something's burning coal for the current grid-wide energy mix; but its 6% of total (390MW) not the near GW that Moneypoint does at full whack; so its probably just Kilroot. Its not import, we're exporting as of the exact time I checked the stats.

AndyBoBandy · 09-12-2020 8:27pm

Estella Crashing Chopstick wrote: »

Not any more, it’s more or less shut down.

Will be needed up to 2027 at least according to the ESB about 2 weeks ago...

the_amazing_raisin · 09-12-2020 8:32pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Will be needed up to 2027 at least according to the ESB about 2 weeks ago...

Is that the same division that can't predict EV demand?

Marlow · 09-12-2020 8:37pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

According to Chargemap the two chargers in Cherbourg are busted

I'd say it's best to budget the time for a charge before or after the ferry, but use the charger on the ferry if possible and view the time saving as a bonus

I referred to the other 2 locations in Cherbourg. There are 3 locations with fast chargers.

- 1 with 2 busted chargers at Aubert Automobiles KIA ... that's the one with the 2 busted chargers
- 1 at Lidl .... looking at that, those chargers are also bust
- 1 at Auchan Cherbourg, where it seems, that the Chademo charger is busted, but the type 2 AC is ok.

These are reports from October, so they could have been fixed since. Then again .. this is France

Mayo_fan wrote: »

All good information, my angle was you get off the ferry and you typically have a long drive ahead with family. I’d like to tackle that with a full battery and not to have to go to plan b because there was an issue charging on boat. Therefore I’d plan to arrive at ferry as close to 100% as possible even it means allowing extra time for a top up in Dublin / roslare

Well, if you charge before going on the ferry, then you're guaranteed to prolong your trip by starting way earlier at home.

If the charger on the ferry works, then you don't prolong your trip at all.

If the charger on the ferry doesn't work, then you add a bit in Cherbourg or at a point near enough to Caen, but at least you don't chance missing check-in on the ferry.

Your approach is my opinion a stress creator. But everyone to their own.

/M

Kramer · 09-12-2020 8:55pm

Marlow wrote: »

I referred to the other 2 locations in Cherbourg. There are 3 locations with fast chargers.

We used the AC Tesla destination charge point while topping up with cheap alcohol at the Carrefour hypermarket in Cherbourg. It's in the multistorey & IIRC, there were several there, 3 or 4 Tesla ones probably.

A Model 3 would pull 11kWs so worth doing if carting out wine anyway

.

It was here:
https://www.carrefour.fr/magasin/cherbourg

Marlow · 09-12-2020 10:27pm

Kramer wrote: »

We used the AC Tesla destination charge point while topping up with cheap alcohol at the Carrefour hypermarket in Cherbourg.

There's loads of destination chargers around Cherbourg from looking at Plugshare. I just listed the 50kW ones for reference.

But I certainly don't see an issue getting a charge in Cherbourg or Caen, if the charger on the ferry doesn't work. And I most certainly prefer the time saving by charging it on the ferry, if it works.

My point was, that it's pointless charging fully up before boarding the ferry and unnecessary add time to the overall trip.

/M

zg3409 · 11-12-2020 9:27am

Marlow wrote: »

If the charger on the ferry works, then you don't prolong your trip at all.

If the charger on the ferry doesn't work, then you add a bit in Cherbourg or at a point near enough to Caen, but at least you don't chance missing check-in on the ferry.

Your approach is my opinion a stress creator. But everyone to their own.

/M

If I am heading for a ferry I typically intend to arrive 45 minutes early in case of traffic, puncture, delays setting off, so with a couple of 50kW+ chargers at Dublin port you can fill up to 100% and leave on time to get ferry. This way you have 3 chances of filling, before ferry, on ferry, and other side. As mentioned other side is risky as there may be multiple EVs all leaving the ferry at the exact same moment with the same idea.

I find its less stressful to be at 100% and early. Chargers on ferries are a great idea but they need to be 7kW+ for 3 hour crossings.

Isambard · 11-12-2020 9:41am

is it worth all the hassle I have to ask?

the_amazing_raisin · 11-12-2020 9:49am

Isambard wrote: »

is it worth all the hassle I have to ask?

What hassle is that?

Isambard · 11-12-2020 9:52am

booking charger, getting on it, working out will it give me enough charge , finding charger at destination, is it one of the broken ones, etc

It seems to me an EV is at it's most useful within range of home.

zg3409 · 11-12-2020 10:24am

Isambard wrote: »

booking charger, getting on it, working out will it give me enough charge , finding charger at destination, is it one of the broken ones, etc

It seems to me an EV is at it's most useful within range of home.

An EV with the range you need for 99% of trips is ideal. You can save 2000 per year on fuel costs and fill up at home. For the occasional ferry trip an ICE may be easier to refuel, but fuel costs and getting a different vehicle may be a problem. The charging network across Europe is quite advanced and while it may mean multiple 30 minute stops, its possible to cross France, Germany, Italy etc and you can bring your EV.

Charging on a ferry is quicker than stopping for petrol. Try fill up your ICE on a ferry...

Isambard · 11-12-2020 10:41am

tbh filling up on a trip involving a ferry is not a problem for me as I always arrive with plenty of time in hand and the chances are we would be wanting to stock up on nibbles anyway.

Multiple 30 minute stops sounds like a nightmare.

2000 saving needs to be stacked against the much higher purchase costs

The time might come when the market will dictate an EV but not for me yet especially as (in normal times) I would use ferries quite a bit.

AndyBoBandy · 11-12-2020 10:48am

Isambard wrote: »

2000 saving needs to be stacked against the much higher purchase costs

I'm planning/hoping to keep our EV for a minimum of 10 years, so that'll be a €20,000 saving in diesel over that 10 year period. (in 9 months alone we've already saved around €1,500).

Tax Diesel for 10 years: €7,100 (could be less with a newer car)
Tax EV for 10 years: €1,200

Total savings over 10 years: €25,900

Purchase price of EV: €48,000

Cost of EV minus savings after 10 years: €22,100

Yeah. all day long.

Bonus: driving an EV which is immeasurably better than driving a diesel (BMW).

ELM327 · 11-12-2020 10:53am

Isambard wrote: »

tbh filling up on a trip involving a ferry is not a problem for me as I always arrive with plenty of time in hand and the chances are we would be wanting to stock up on nibbles anyway.

Multiple 30 minute stops sounds like a nightmare.

2000 saving needs to be stacked against the much higher purchase costs

The time might come when the market will dictate an EV but not for me yet especially as (in normal times) I would use ferries quite a bit.

Multiple 30 minute stops are a nightmare, and are also necessary, depending on your specific EV and bladder range.

If you have a leaf24 and you can do 1 hour of driving and charge for 30 mins it's not good. However if you have say a Tesla or an ETron and you can do 300km and charge for 30 mins, it's not so bad. I find the car has more range on road trips than I do!

Marlow · 11-12-2020 11:35am

If you travel long distance you should make a stop every 2 hours anyway. Even in an ICE car.

At the very least for the purpose of stretching your legs and maybe get some refreshments.

The only difference is, that the EV forces you to do so. Then again my Audi Allroad would start beeping at me, if I drove longer than 2 hours without stop.

/M

Isambard · 11-12-2020 11:37am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I'm planning/hoping to keep our EV for a minimum of 10 years, so that'll be a €20,000 saving in diesel over that 10 year period. (in 9 months alone we've already saved around €1,500).

Tax Diesel for 10 years: €7,100 (could be less with a newer car)
Tax EV for 10 years: €1,200

Total savings over 10 years: €25,900

Purchase price of EV: €48,000

Cost of EV minus savings after 10 years: €22,100

Yeah. all day long.

Bonus: driving an EV which is immeasurably better than driving a diesel (BMW).

It's very interesting. Do you think the batteries would last ten years? Even my modest car use comes to 25000km a year or so. 250000 without major expense in renewals seems optimistic.

the_amazing_raisin · 11-12-2020 11:38am

Isambard wrote: »

tbh filling up on a trip involving a ferry is not a problem for me as I always arrive with plenty of time in hand and the chances are we would be wanting to stock up on nibbles anyway.

Multiple 30 minute stops sounds like a nightmare.

2000 saving needs to be stacked against the much higher purchase costs

The time might come when the market will dictate an EV but not for me yet especially as (in normal times) I would use ferries quite a bit.

Well you say it's added inconvenience but you also said you're fine stopping en route for food and fuel, so why not a recharge?

Starting from full and a single recharge stop in a modern EV could allow you to cover 600km or more depending on your driving, which is probably what most people would feel safe doing in one day.

Now I know some folks would be happy to drive 1000km or more in one day, but I wouldn't feel safe doing that, so each to his own.

To give you an example of a trip I'm planning, I'm hoping to go to France in an ID.4 next year. I'll be charging to full at home and driving to the port expecting to have more than 95% battery (I'm based in Dublin).

Arriving in Cherbourg, it's around 200km to the resort, which won't require any charges on the way and I'll arrive with 30% battery remaining.

The resort has EV chargers for staff use but maybe they'll let me use them. Failing that, I could trickle charger off the mobile home. It's not quick, but overnight I could gain back 35% of my battery for free

There's also nearby St Malo which has multiple on street chargers. We'll probably visit the beach and see the town and charge there as well, in 4 hours I'd gain over 50% charge

So for literally no detours on my part I'll be able to keep the car charged.

I haven't got an itinerary planned yet but I'd be confident that if we're doing a day trip we'd only need 1 quick charge at most. A lot of places have slow chargers these days so it's quite possible with some careful planning I could get away without a single fast charge

Travelling home, we'll hopefully leaving with 100% but strictly speaking 80% charge would be enough to get us to the ferry without any drama.

It's unlikely that we'd need to use the charger on the ferry on the way home but if it's free then I might avail of it

So if anything the petrol car ends up being more inconvenient because it requires more detours :P

ELM327 · 11-12-2020 11:57am

Isambard wrote: »

It's very interesting. Do you think the batteries would last ten years? Even my modest car use comes to 25000km a year or so. 250000 without major expense in renewals seems optimistic.

Yes it will.
I'm at 180k in my model S, with around 5% deg. That poster has a model 3 with newer battery form which should have even less deg.

Losing 10% in degradation over 10 years/250k km would still leave you with a perfectly useable car. If your range is 300km new, it means your range is 270km in 10 years.

Marlow · 11-12-2020 1:24pm

Isambard wrote: »

It's very interesting. Do you think the batteries would last ten years? Even my modest car use comes to 25000km a year or so. 250000 without major expense in renewals seems optimistic.

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes it will.
I'm at 180k in my model S, with around 5% deg. That poster has a model 3 with newer battery form which should have even less deg.

That and the fact, that for example Tesla has 8 years unlimited milage warranty on the battery anyhow.

/M

ELM327 · 11-12-2020 1:31pm

Marlow wrote: »

That and the fact, that for example Tesla has 8 years unlimited milage warranty on the battery anyhow.

/M

It's not unlimited for new cars anymore. 240k km or 8 years now is the limit, with a slightly lower one for M3 I think

(older cars bought on the older conditions obviously retain the 8 year unlimited warranty)

Marlow · 11-12-2020 1:36pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Now I know some folks would be happy to drive 1000km or more in one day, but I wouldn't feel safe doing that, so each to his own.

I regularly do 1800 km stints. And I have managed to pull that off in one 23 hour session, with 2 short ferry sailings. It seriously takes it's toll on you.

In the last decade, I have decreased that to about 1300 km, by using other ferry connections and one of the sailings is overnight. So the longest stretch on that journey is about 750 km.

With Brexit, I will probably change my route again and up with 1600 km, one overnight ferry and unfortunately 1400 km on the last leg.

Either way .. for trips like that, you most certainly would stop every 2-3 hours anyhow for food/refreshments. Charging won't make any difference to it.

What will make a difference is the cost of the trip. I spend 200-300 EUR diesel on a trip like that. It'll be less than 100 EUR in charging fees with an EV.

/M

Marlow · 11-12-2020 1:38pm

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not unlimited for new cars anymore. 240k km or 8 years now is the limit, with a slightly lower one for M3 I think

240k km is still a lot and many people never get there in 8 years.

The only reason they put that limit in there is the likes of Taxis etc.

/M

Chargers on car ferries

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