COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

08-12-2020 07:38AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How long does it take to defrost something from -70 celcius?

It takes me about 8 hours to defrost steaks from normal freezer temps!

A vial of the vaccine is a bit smaller than your average steak I would hope.

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 07:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

A vial of the vaccine is a bit smaller than your average steak I would hope.

This. As we all remember from Inter Cert Science, how long a thing takes to heat up or cool down depends on (a) its mass and (b) its specific heat capacity.

If the vaccine is injectable, then it's likely that a vial of the vaccine will contain mostly normal saline water, so its specific heat capacity will be close to that of water. So, how long will it take to bring a vial of vaccine to from -70 to room temperature? About the same time as it would take to bring a similar quantity of water (presumably, a few mls) from -70 to room temperature.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 08-12-2020 08:03AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

This. As we all remember from Inter Cert Science, how long a thing takes to heat up or cool down depends on (a) its mass and (b) its specific heat capacity.

If the vaccine is injectable, then it's likely that a vial of the vaccine will contain mostly normal saline water, so its specific heat capacity will be close to that of water. So, how long will it take to bring a vial of vaccine to from -70 to room temperature? About the same time as it would take to bring a similar quantity of water (presumably, a few mls) from -70 to room temperature.

In layman's terms, rub it between your hands for a few minutes and away you go :-D

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 08:14AM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

In layman's terms, rub it between your hands for a few minutes and away you go :-D

Don't do this at home. Contact with something that cold - -70 is much, much colder than your home freezer will ever be - can give you a nasty burn, even scarring.

DellyBelly · 08-12-2020 08:15AM

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

lawrencesummers · 08-12-2020 08:23AM

Today starts the biggest medical trial in world history.

In what will be billed as a political success story in photocalls by politicians all over there is little to no consideration given to the possible (Yes possible, hopefully there are none) issues from this Vaccine.

It’s remarkable that less than 12 months on from the ‘official’ discovery of the virus on these shores scientists have discovered, and pharmaceutical companies have produced in huge quantities the vaccine. Hats off to you.

While many are happy to cling to the headlines from the manufacturers of 90+ effectiveness there are large gaps in the data regarding testing.

The regulators have approved this (correctly) under emergency status or outside of their typical process because no safety data exists outside of a maximin of 6 months from use.

We don’t know a number of things about this vaccine, and the information on these things will only come out during the next while as they have not been covered in the trials

Is it safe for pregnant women, or those trying to get pregnant?
Is it safe for children?
Is there any other medicine that it cannot be taken with?
Do any existing medical conditions mean it cannot be taken?
How long does the vaccine provide immunity for.

lawrencesummers · 08-12-2020 08:23AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

Emigration is an option.

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 08:31AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

There are pros and cons to doing so. But the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit, and the desire of some UK voices to present is as a Brexit issue suggest that (a) they are very ignorant or (b) they are anxious to distract attention from the real issue that arise in a decision of this kind (or, I suppose, (c) both of these things).

Possedion · 08-12-2020 08:32AM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Today starts the biggest medical trial in world history.

In what will be billed as a political success story in photocalls by politicians all over there is little to no consideration given to the possible (Yes possible, hopefully there are none) issues from this Vaccine.

It’s remarkable that less than 12 months on from the ‘official’ discovery of the virus on these shores scientists have discovered, and pharmaceutical companies have produced in huge quantities the vaccine. Hats off to you.

While many are happy to cling to the headlines from the manufacturers of 90+ effectiveness there are large gaps in the data regarding testing.

The regulators have approved this (correctly) under emergency status or outside of their typical process because no safety data exists outside of a maximin of 6 months from use.

We don’t know a number of things about this vaccine, and the information on these things will only come out during the next while as they have not been covered in the trials

Is it safe for pregnant women, or those trying to get pregnant?
Is it safe for children?
Is there any other medicine that it cannot be taken with?
Do any existing medical conditions mean it cannot be taken?
How long does the vaccine provide immunity for.

You should email these critical points to the fda / ema. ðŸ˜Š

lawrencesummers · 08-12-2020 08:45AM

Possedion wrote: »

You should email these critical points to the fda / ema. &#55357;&#56842;

Naw, I’m just gonna sit back with a big bowl of popcorn.

DellyBelly · 08-12-2020 09:12AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

There are pros and cons to doing so. But the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit, and the desire of some UK voices to present is as a Brexit issue suggest that (a) they are very ignorant or (b) they are anxious to distract attention from the real issue that arise in a decision of this kind (or, I suppose, (c) both of these things).

Didn't realise that. Obviously we are being overly cautious

Sky King · 08-12-2020 09:15AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Didn't realise that. Obviously we are being overly cautious

I'd argue that the brits are being underly cautious, a view shared by the regulators in the EU and Fauci in the US.

noserider · 08-12-2020 09:26AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

First person vaccinated in N Ireland this morning at 6:30 am.

Pasteur. · 08-12-2020 09:29AM

noserider wrote: »

First person vaccinated in N Ireland this morning at 6:30 am.

How's he doing?

Happydays2020 · 08-12-2020 09:32AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Vaccination against tuberculosis can reduce the spread of COVID-19 and ease its course
Analysis showed that the spread of the new coronavirus infection occurs more slowly where there is a large percentage of people vaccinated against tuberculosis with the BCG vaccine. (Peer reviewed)

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-12/spsu-vat120320.php

We have a high number of people who've had the BCG vaccine, I'm assuming as the average age of death with Covid here is late 80's a lot of that generation haven't had it. Also our under 5's haven't had it.
We're accrediting all Covid success to restrictions while attributing nothing to the existing vaccine.

There's been too many studies and peer reviewed papers to continue to ignore the help the BCG vaccine has given us.

At this stage with all the evidence I find it deceitful by NPHET to take all the credit based on their restrictions.

The children of Cork did not receive the vaccine for many years. If I am correct, from 1973 to 2006

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cork-babies-to-get-routine-tb-vaccine-after-36-year-gap-1.904443.

DellyBelly · 08-12-2020 09:34AM

Pasteur. wrote: »

How's he doing?

Turned into a woman and is speaking 40 different languages.. Also has grown 7 new fingers but looks like they are Covid resistant.. Bring it on

Pasteur. · 08-12-2020 09:40AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

Turned into a woman and is speaking 40 different languages.. Also has grown 7 new fingers but looks like they are Covid resistant.. Bring it on

Thought these vaccines had been checked?

Wtf like

Happydays2020 · 08-12-2020 09:41AM

Pasteur. wrote: »

How's he doing?

It seems he is now a she.

WoollyRedHat · 08-12-2020 09:42AM

Margaret Keenan became first person in the world to receive the Pfizer vaccine after it was approved by the UK last week. Margaret who is 90 years old and lives in Coventry, got the vaccination at a local hospital at 06:45am this morning, by nurse May Parsons, as the NHS started the national vaccination rollout programme. Margaret is originally from NI Enniskillen.

She was followed by William Shakespeare in Warwickshire, who was heard to remark 'Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand?’ to which the nurse replied 'No love, it's just a vaccination needle jab'.

Sister Joanna Sloan also becomes the first person to receive the jab on the island of Ireland. One for the pub quizzes!

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 09:56AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Margaret Keenan became first person to receive the Pfizer vaccine in the world after it was approved by the UK last week. Margaret who is 90 years old and lives in Coventry, got the vaccination at a local hospital at 06:45am this morning, by nurse May Parsons, as the NHS started the national vaccination rollout.. Margaret is originally from NI Enniskillen.

She was followed by William Shakespeare by Warwickshire, who was heard to remark 'before he received it 'Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand?’ to which the nurse replied 'No love, it's just a vaccination jab'.

Sister Joanna Sloan also becomes the first person to receive the jab on the island of Ireland. One for the quizzes!

Thousands of people have received the Pfizer vaccine. How did you think the clinical trials were conducted?

WoollyRedHat · 08-12-2020 09:57AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Thousands of people have received the Pfizer vaccine. How did you think the clinical trials were conducted?

The approved version outside the trials, don't be so oblique.

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 10:02AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

The approved version outside the trials, don't be so oblique.

There's isn't an "approved version"; it's exactly the same vaccine. What you've got is people who received the vaccine as part of a clinical trial, and people who received the vaccine on the basis of an emergency authorisation. What we don't (yet) have is anybody who received the vaccine on the basis of a full regulatory licence.

WoollyRedHat · 08-12-2020 10:05AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

There's isn't an "approved version"; it's exactly the same vaccine. What you've got is people who received the vaccine as part of a clinical trial, and people who received the vaccine on the basis of an emergency authorisation. What we don't (yet) have is anybody who received the vaccine on the basis of a full regulatory licence.

Approved on the basis of emergency authorization then, I feel like you're splitting hairs, didn't say it was fully licenced yet.

ETA: I just looked online and the UK licensed it last week?

XsApollo · 08-12-2020 10:15AM

The first person to receive the vaccine outside of a trial setting so.

Peregrinus · 08-12-2020 10:19AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

ETA: I just looked online and the UK licensed it last week?

No. They've given it an emergency authorisation.

(From the point of view of the people getting the vaccine, I don't think this makes a lot of difference. From the point of view of the people making and selling the vaccine, it does.)

hmmm · 08-12-2020 10:46AM

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries. There's a lot of speculation as to how far this will go - is it just a fig leaf, or would he actually try and seize supplies.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Happydays2020 · 08-12-2020 10:48AM

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

As a self proclaimed business man he behaves a lot like a communist dictator.

Pasteur. · 08-12-2020 10:48AM

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Can't see the US having the authority to requisition vaccines from Belgium

ixoy · 08-12-2020 10:54AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

Would they have to use their own supply though in such cases rather than the EU supply already bought?

Russman · 08-12-2020 10:55AM

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Saw that story alright. Bit of egg on the faces of the admin, but what's another egg on top of what's already there.
TBH I can't see it gaining much traction. He's President, not King, and just because he signs an order it doesn't mean it happens (Mexican Wall).
I'd have to look it up, but I'd imagine Pfizer Europe is well enough isolated or removed from head office to avoid being told to ship it back to the US, plus IIRC its BioNTech that own the formula (I think) so they'd likely have a competing voice if it came to it.

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Comments