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Unusual Mortgage situation

  • 06-12-2020 8:03am
    #1
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭


    I have planning permission for a house on a site in an urban area , which I own, currently valued at €350,000.


    I have €300,000 available to build a house, however after contacting a number of builders in the area it seems the house will cost €540,000 to €570,000 to build to a high standard including finishes.

    Therefore I would like to get a mortgage for the remaining ~€250,000.

    The issue is that my salary is only €40,000. This means I can only borrow €140,000 as an individual with current rules, are any exceptions made considering the low loan to value ratio in the case?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    I have planning permission for a house on a site in an urban area , which I own, currently valued at €350,000.


    I have €300,000 available to build a house, however after contacting a number of builders in the area it seems the house will cost €540,000 to €570,000 to build to a high standard including finishes.

    Therefore I would like to get a mortgage for the remaining ~€250,000.

    The issue is that my salary is only €40,000. This means I can only borrow €140,000 as an individual with current rules, are any exceptions made considering the low loan to value ratio in the case?

    Is the 300k in cash in your account?


  • #3
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,381 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Over 6 times your salary, can't imagine getting that exception.

    I'm going to assume, based on your salary, you inherited the land and at least a large portion of the 300k cash you have. The rules are there to keep people within their means, and it sounds like you're trying to live beyond your means.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    I have planning permission for a house on a site in an urban area , which I own, currently valued at €350,000.


    I have €300,000 available to build a house, however after contacting a number of builders in the area it seems the house will cost €540,000 to €570,000 to build to a high standard including finishes.

    Therefore I would like to get a mortgage for the remaining ~€250,000.

    The issue is that my salary is only €40,000. This means I can only borrow €140,000 as an individual with current rules, are any exceptions made considering the low loan to value ratio in the case?


    Why do you think you can afford a €250k mortgage on a €40k salary?


    The loan to value only comes in to play if you default. No bank wants to go down that road.


  • #5
    Addle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Are you building the house to live it in or sell it?


  • #6
    Calculator123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭Calculator123


    It's sounds like you've been afforded an incredible opportunity to live debt free, either through inheritance or some other mechanism.

    The dream for most people is to have no mortgage.

    Sell the site, add some of you savings to the number and you can well afford to buy a house anywhere in the country -spectacular house outside of urban areas.

    Any debt or loan will be a noose around your neck on a salary of 40k.


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  • #7
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Try a broker but it will be difficult or nigh on impossible, the irony being that mortgage would only be 950 a month over 30 years if you fix at a low rate which I’m guessing you can manage.


  • #8
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes the land and money were inherited.

    I understand the rules are there to keep people living within their means, to be honest it looks like the monthly repayments on a 250,000 mortgage would be about the same as I am currently paying in rent in Dublin. But guess that says more about crazy rent prices in Dublin than the affordability of the mortgage.

    Plan is to live in the house, possibly using the rent a room scheme to help pay the mortgage.

    I am also a director and shareholder in a reasonably successful family business, which I don’t currently take a salary from. Would this be taken into account in any way? What if I was to pay myself a salary from this to top up the salary from my 9-5 job?


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »

    I am also a director and shareholder in a reasonably successful family business, which I don’t currently take a salary from. Would this be taken into account in any way? What if I was to pay myself a salary from this to top up the salary from my 9-5 job?


    Yes, that would work. You might need to be paid for 6 months or so, but you'll get there. Good luck.


  • #10
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Calculator123 wrote: »
    It's sounds like you've been afforded an incredible opportunity to live debt free, either through inheritance or some other mechanism.

    The dream for most people is to have no mortgage.

    Sell the site, add some of you savings to the number and you can well afford to buy a house anywhere in the country -spectacular house outside of urban areas.

    Any debt or loan will be a noose around your neck on a salary of 40k.

    This is great advice and I would follow in normal circumstances

    However selling the site isn’t an option, it’s an amazing location in an urban area which has been in the family for generations and which I inherited with the express intention of building on and living in. Basically I inherited more than siblings due to a desire to keep the land in the family.

    I realize I am super lucky and it’s very much a first world problem


  • #11
    Addle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    See an accountant OP. Use the company in your favour.
    Best of luck.


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  • #12
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,381 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Check out the possibility of taking a salary from your director role, would need to be 32k to make enough in total to qualify for a 250k mortgage. Maybe more, since a single earner of 72k will pay more tax than a dual earning couple.

    The repayments might seem ok, but add 2% to your interest rate you're working from. Banks will stress test you like this to ensure you can meet the repayments should interest rates rise. Shouldn't be an issue with your directors salary included, but on 40k only it's probably about half your take home pay.

    You could always reduce the cost of the house. Do you need a 550k to build home right now? Could you build something more suiting with extending in the future as needs be factored in.


  • #13
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Thanks, for all the advice.

    Will definitely talk to the accountant, first plan is definitely borrow the money from the company but it seems there are strict rules around this so I probably wouldn’t be able to get enough.


    Also actively looking into reducing building costs, there are some things we can do but basic building costs in Dublin are just crazy so don’t see it coming down by more than 40 or 50k.

    Will ideally I would love to build the house independently a joint mortgage with my partner could also be an option


  • #14
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,592 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Your best bet is to get a good architect and give them the budget but explain you want future options built in. Then they can allow for say a third floor that is now an attic but easily converted. Prob save 30-40k, build bigger foundations allowing for side or rear extension easily, but not do either, saving up to 100k etc. even more if no extra en-suites and bathrooms. Smaller finished footprint is only really way to save if building in Dublin.

    I.e bring the costs down to 400k or so but keep standards up. You will also find they can better control costs and find value than you can. It might save a bit on planning too with a good design to start from.


  • #15
    JCJCJC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes the land and money were inherited.

    I understand the rules are there to keep people living within their means, to be honest it looks like the monthly repayments on a 250,000 mortgage would be about the same as I am currently paying in rent in Dublin. But guess that says more about crazy rent prices in Dublin than the affordability of the mortgage.

    Plan is to live in the house, possibly using the rent a room scheme to help pay the mortgage.

    I am also a director and shareholder in a reasonably successful family business, which I don’t currently take a salary from. Would this be taken into account in any way? What if I was to pay myself a salary from this to top up the salary from my 9-5 job?

    Don’t even think about selling the site without professional advice on capital gains tax. It’s a bastard of a tax that might catch you unawares.


  • #16
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    copacetic wrote: »
    Your best bet is to get a good architect and give them the budget but explain you want future options built in. Then they can allow for say a third floor that is now an attic but easily converted. Prob save 30-40k, build bigger foundations allowing for side or rear extension easily, but not do either, saving up to 100k etc. even more if no extra en-suites and bathrooms. Smaller finished footprint is only really way to save if building in Dublin.

    I.e bring the costs down to 400k or so but keep standards up. You will also find they can better control costs and find value than you can. It might save a bit on planning too with a good design to start from.

    Thanks, solid advice but a lot of time and money has already gone into obtaining planning permission for the house. I feel any money saved in building costs would probably be spent on architect and planning fees again. We have also spent money on things like ecological impact reports which may need to be completed again for a new design


  • #17
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭Tefral


    wow, your far down the garden path already. I guess you have to keep going to some extent as planning permission has a time limit.

    I'm a QS and I can say, what you are trying to achieve is difficult.

    I had to answer alot of questions building my own house around how I could build the size I had at the cost I was telling them as it was below their own cost range.

    A bank is also going to want to see the house finished out before giving you the final drawdown too so its not like you can start and then get it to a stage and live in it.

    Theres good advice here on trying to get your salary up even for the the next 6 months.

    Could you borrow the money from your siblings to finish the house, then get a mortgage on that finished house to pay them back?

    Theres a good QS called <SNIP> in Dublin, that might be worth googling and chatting to see what you can do with your current 300k.


  • #18
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,592 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    Thanks, solid advice but a lot of time and money has already gone into obtaining planning permission for the house. I feel any money saved in building costs would probably be spent on architect and planning fees again. We have also spent money on things like ecological impact reports which may need to be completed again for a new design

    Ah ok, hadn’t realised you had gone that far, as above you have good family options it sounds like, either a salary or directors loan is probably your best bet.


  • #19
    CountNjord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭CountNjord


    300k Could relocate you to the West of Ireland, pay for a degree, the sky's the limit.

    Putting that kind of debt on your shoulders from my past observation of people similar to yourself is crippling.

    I don't know you from Adam,so I'm probably posting how I'd do with that kind of money, would the land and all your planning permission and ecological report's add add value to your portfolio, sell the land and keep the money would be my Idea scenario...

    Anyhow good luck with it and don't end up loosing the whole lot or living in perpetual debt to fulfill a dream...


  • #20
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭Tefral


    CountNjord wrote: »
    300k Could relocate you to the West of Ireland, pay for a degree, the sky's the limit.

    Putting that kind of debt on your shoulders from my past observation of people similar to yourself is crippling.

    I don't know you from Adam,so I'm probably posting how I'd do with that kind of money, would the land and all your planning permission and ecological report's add add value to your portfolio, sell the land and keep the money would be my Idea scenario...

    Anyhow good luck with it and don't end up loosing the whole lot or living in perpetual debt to fulfill a dream...

    He would prob fall out with his family over it if he did.... no healthy bank acc is worth that.

    a mortgage worth 250k isnt that bad though?


  • #21
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭the-island-man


    I'm not so sure the advice about the 6 months is accurate with relation you paying yourself from your family business. I was a self employed contractor (director of a company) when my wife and I went for a mortgage. I had to show 2 years of payslips. You may need to do the same for the portion of income coming from the family business if you go down the same route.


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  • #22
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    I’m struggling to see how all your lical builders have a vision that spends a quarter a million euro on interiors and finishes?? This is aside from 300k to build the house - excluding the cost of
    the land. It sounds like you are being taken for a total ride.

    I had an attic space that needed some basic work and the quotes I got were wild - from 3k to 15k for the same costed job - many builders just looked at the house and area and gave a price that they thought suited the area and /or maxed out the profit for them - or simply said take it or leave it - I shopped around and left them.

    Have you considered getting a surveyor to cost it?

    From fitting out a 2200 + sq ft 3 storey house including walls, wood floors, furniture, carpeting, all white goods, beds, tiling for bathrooms etc it would have come to less than 25k. Where are your builders going with a quarter a million plus?

    Also - the most expensive part of the build is the land - so 300k+ for a build sounds extortinate.

    Maybe you need to get a surveyor in and then get quotes out of county based on his/her lead.

    It really sounds like you are just being exploited.


  • #23
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    JustAThought wrote: »
    From fitting out a 2200 + sq ft 3 storey house including walls, wood floors, furniture, carpeting, all white goods, beds, tiling for bathrooms etc it would have come to less than 25k. Where are your builders going with a quarter a million plus?

    Also - the most expensive part of the build is the land - so 300k+ for a build sounds extortinate.

    Maybe you need to get a surveyor in and then get quotes out of county based on his/her lead.

    It really sounds like you are just being exploited.

    I didn’t see where the op said it was 250k for finishes ? And finishing a 2200 sq foot house for 25k might be doable but it won’t be quality. A decent painter will charge more than half of that for a start.


  • #24
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Tefral wrote: »
    He would prob fall out with his family over it if he did.... no healthy bank acc is worth that.

    a mortgage worth 250k isnt that bad though?

    That’s what I figure, selling isn’t an option and a 250k mortgage isn’t the worst option.

    Looking at prices in the area to rent a room. There are a few up for over 1000 a month so that could be an option that would pay off most of the mortgage monthly. Would be tax free also as a bonus


    Tha


  • #25
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    JustAThought wrote: »
    I’m struggling to see how all your lical builders have a vision that spends a quarter a million euro on interiors and finishes?? This is aside from 300k to build the house - excluding the cost of
    the land. It sounds like you are being taken for a total ride.

    I had an attic space that needed some basic work and the quotes I got were wild - from 3k to 15k for the same costed job - many builders just looked at the house and area and gave a price that they thought suited the area and /or maxed out the profit for them - or simply said take it or leave it - I shopped around and left them.

    Have you considered getting a surveyor to cost it?

    From fitting out a 2200 + sq ft 3 storey house including walls, wood floors, furniture, carpeting, all white goods, beds, tiling for bathrooms etc it would have come to less than 25k. Where are your builders going with a quarter a million plus?

    Also - the most expensive part of the build is the land - so 300k+ for a build sounds extortinate.

    Maybe you need to get a surveyor in and then get quotes out of county based on his/her lead.

    It really sounds like you are just being exploited.

    Thanks, firstly the cost for finishes isn’t 250k, 550k in total including finishes.

    I see what you mean by exploited, we have been told that we could save about 100k doing it with direct labour but I don’t think it would be a project we are capable of taking on.

    We have had a couple of architects and a civil engineer involved in the project and while costs are a bit more than expected (none of them are Dublin based), it’s not that much more than figures I have seen quoted here and elsewhere. House is 200sqm.




    Tefral wrote: »
    wow, your far down the garden path already. I guess you have to keep going to some extent as planning permission has a time limit.

    I'm a QS and I can say, what you are trying to achieve is difficult.

    I had to answer alot of questions building my own house around how I could build the size I had at the cost I was telling them as it was below their own cost range.

    A bank is also going to want to see the house finished out before giving you the final drawdown too so its not like you can start and then get it to a stage and live in it.

    Theres good advice here on trying to get your salary up even for the the next 6 months.

    Could you borrow the money from your siblings to finish the house, then get a mortgage on that finished house to pay them back?

    Theres a good QS called <SNIP> in Dublin, that might be worth googling and chatting to see what you can do with your current 300k.

    Borrowing from a sibling would be ideal, but not sure if they would have the money available.

    Ideally we would leave out the banks entirely but started this thread to explore if it was even a possibility . Looks not on my own and I think it would even be complicated combining my income and my partners.
    CountNjord wrote: »
    300k Could relocate you to the West of Ireland, pay for a degree, the sky's the limit.

    Putting that kind of debt on your shoulders from my past observation of people similar to yourself is crippling.

    I don't know you from Adam,so I'm probably posting how I'd do with that kind of money, would the land and all your planning permission and ecological report's add add value to your portfolio, sell the land and keep the money would be my Idea scenario...

    Anyhow good luck with it and don't end up loosing the whole lot or living in perpetual debt to fulfill a dream...
    Tefral wrote: »
    He would prob fall out with his family over it if he did.... no healthy bank acc is worth that.

    a mortgage worth 250k isnt that bad though?

    Yep, can’t sell the land :)
    the-island-man wrote: »
    I'm not so sure the advice about the 6 months is accurate with relation you paying yourself from your family business. I was a self employed contractor (director of a company) when my wife and I went for a mortgage. I had to show 2 years of payslips. You may need to do the same for the portion of income coming from the family business if you go down the same route.

    You are probably right here, this probably rules of this option.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The West of Ireland versus Dublin City Centre where he works and his partner lives is no comparison.

    I suggest you go to the bank that works with the family business. While mortgages may no longer be sanctioned locally it won't hurt to get a referral from your local bank manager.

    With your circumstances I think 6 months income from your director role would be enough.

    Here's the controversial bit. You could start the process now with your €300k and you'd not need the €250k until you'd qualify time wise, which would mean no delay.

    Some will strongly disagree with that though.


  • #27
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If the house is costing 540k to build it must be substantial dwelling even taking to final finish. Did you not get prices for it before looking for planning

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »

    You are probably right here, this probably rules of this option.


    KBC, for example, look for 6 months salary proof.


    https://www.kbc.ie/our-products/mortgages/first-time-buyers/getting-your-finances-ready-(1)/an-employees-guide-to-securing-your-first-mortgage


    Your circumstances are different. You've been an unpaid director for longer. Just make sure you get confirmation you've passed probation. :rolleyes:


  • #29
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Speaking to an accountant and working with your family’s bank is the way to go here if you want to do this. I think you will be able to do it if you have the support of your family.

    The advice to find a QS is good too. The prices you are talking about to build this may well be optimistic. There is just no way to know what construction costs will be like even a few months into the future at the best of times and these are definitely not the best of times. What I am really saying here is that you might need to be ready to significantly exceed the current budget.

    What you are really doing here is leveraging the wealth of your family to build an extensive home for you and your partner. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

    However, you are tying up all your own personal wealth (inheritance plus savings from future income) in a house that may not suit you in a few years and which you cannot sell on the open market without upsetting your family. Even if family preferences were not a consideration, you may find that the property might be difficult to sell in the future for its full value (there just aren’t that many people in the market for a €1.2m+ house in Ireland). You need to consider for yourself whether this suits you in the context of your overall situation.

    Really what is happening here in the background is that wealth is being passed down from one generation to another. There are all sorts of considerations for your family in doing this in an effective way. Obviously the site you plan to build on is part of a bigger picture and you need to consider it in the context of that bigger picture.


  • #30
    Lexio7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭Lexio7


    The short answer is no. On a €40k salary no bank will issue a mortgage of €250k, no matter how much equity you have.

    Even if you managed to secure the €250k have you thought about how you would manage if you went 10-15% over budget due to unforeseen circumstances?

    You are appear to be a blessed position and this may be one of the most important financial decisions you make. The last thing you want to have happen is find yourself drowning your n debt which can be avoided based on your current circumstances.


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  • #31
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    How much would it cost to build the house with just the 4 walls and none of the finishing?

    One option would be the build the basic structure in a way that you could live in it - one complete bathroom, basic bedroom, basic kitchen and work through the rest over time.

    All rooms dont need painting, floors, curtains, wardrobes etc immediately


  • #32
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    JJJackal wrote: »
    How much would it cost to build the house with just the 4 walls and none of the finishing?

    One option would be the build the basic structure in a way that you could live in it - one complete bathroom, basic bedroom, basic kitchen and work through the rest over time.

    All rooms dont need painting, floors, curtains, wardrobes etc immediately

    This might be the way to go- but not sure exactly how much can be saved, the basic building costs are very high.
    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Speaking to an accountant and working with your family’s bank is the way to go here if you want to do this. I think you will be able to do it if you have the support of your family.

    The advice to find a QS is good too. The prices you are talking about to build this may well be optimistic. There is just no way to know what construction costs will be like even a few months into the future at the best of times and these are definitely not the best of times. What I am really saying here is that you might need to be ready to significantly exceed the current budget.

    What you are really doing here is leveraging the wealth of your family to build an extensive home for you and your partner. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

    However, you are tying up all your own personal wealth (inheritance plus savings from future income) in a house that may not suit you in a few years and which you cannot sell on the open market without upsetting your family. Even if family preferences were not a consideration, you may find that the property might be difficult to sell in the future for its full value (there just aren’t that many people in the market for a €1.2m+ house in Ireland). You need to consider for yourself whether this suits you in the context of your overall situation.

    Really what is happening here in the background is that wealth is being passed down from one generation to another. There are all sorts of considerations for your family in doing this in an effective way. Obviously the site you plan to build on is part of a bigger picture and you need to consider it in the context of that bigger picture.

    Thanks very insightful comment, kind of sums up the situation at the moment.
    My family is very lucky and well off, and to be honest has never been me or something I have been too comfortable with. I work as a primary school teacher in a different county, drive an 03 Toyota Yaris, love to travel but always stay in hostels etc. But I have been given this great opportunity to build a nice house in an amazing location and while I feel obligated to take it I am also excited by the opportunity.

    While it would be foolish to plan my future around it, the chances are that I will inherit a bit more in years to come, so feel like it’s probably okay to take some risks at this point in life.


  • #33
    Wesser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Build a smaller house with less high spec finishes. 200 sqm is a very big house for dublin.

    I would advise you to reduce it to 140 and keave space at the side for an extension in 10 years time if you want


  • #34
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Wesser wrote: »
    Build a smaller house with less high spec finishes. 200 sqm is a very big house for dublin.

    I would advise you to reduce it to 140 and keave space at the side for an extension in 10 years time if you want

    Makes a lot of sense, as mentioned earlier probably not worth the hassle of going back to get planning again.


  • #35
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Watch your property tax, maintenance on that size house, and especially watch what it may become. You don't have a decent income prospect as a primary teacher, Future govs are likely to look for "wealth" taxes, housing being the biggest wealth a lot of people have.

    A house valued over the 1M is 2,000 per year (already 10ish percent of your take-home?), and I would expect that to rise over the next 5 years. Add water and other joys too.

    Big houses cost a reasonable amount to run, and maintain in good nick. Clearing gutters, repainting, grounds maintenance, cleaning, can become a full time job. Plenty of mansions became derelict in this country when people couldn't afford to run them.

    Assuming you'll get another inheritance to maintain this spend isn't prudent. 10 years of care for someone with a degenerative illness will absorb an inheritance fairly quickly. These things happen.


  • #36
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Drewgerger wrote: »
    It should only cost about 200,000 to build
    Also put in your contract when you want it finished with monetry penaltys as builders willbwalkboff after they get most of their money

    I think 550,000 is a lot but don’t think you are being realistic with 200,000, have you built a house recently?
    pwurple wrote: »
    Watch your property tax, maintenance on that size house, and especially watch what it may become. You don't have a decent income prospect as a primary teacher, Future govs are likely to look for "wealth" taxes, housing being the biggest wealth a lot of people have.

    A house valued over the 1M is 2,000 per year (already 10ish percent of your take-home?), and I would expect that to rise over the next 5 years. Add water and other joys too.

    Big houses cost a reasonable amount to run, and maintain in good nick. Clearing gutters, repainting, grounds maintenance, cleaning, can become a full time job. Plenty of mansions became derelict in this country when people couldn't afford to run them.

    Assuming you'll get another inheritance to maintain this spend isn't prudent. 10 years of care for someone with a degenerative illness will absorb an inheritance fairly quickly. These things happen.

    Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance? :)


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  • #37
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    I think 550,000 is a lot but don’t think you are being realistic with 200,000, have you built a house recently?



    Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance? :)

    I think people have lost the run of themselves you’ll be grand running a 200sqm house it’s not south fork you are building .


  • #38
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,592 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Drewgerger wrote: »
    It should only cost about 200,000 to build
    Also put in your contract when you want it finished with monetry penaltys as builders willbwalkboff after they get most of their money

    Not sure what planet you are on, but in Dublin you will have trouble getting any kid of decent builder even quote for the work, never mind build it for 200k. A small extension in Dublin costs 100k or so now.


  • #39
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    Look all good points, I think if it comes to a point where I genuinely can’t afford to look after it then I would be happy to sell. Would 200sqm really be considered a mansion? Growing up in rural west of Ireland this would have been an average or even slightly below average size house. You also mention ground maintenance, would making a smaller house not result in increased ground maintenance? :)

    Taking a partial floor off it typically doesn't change the footprint, but I've no idea what your site size is, or your plans.

    A house that costs that amount to build is very high end. My own house is about that SQM, in an urban area, good finish, and cost about half that to demolish and rebuild less than 3 years ago. My assumption therefore is that yours must have every gizmo going, central vac , pot fillers, boiling water taps, cctv, smart home, etc. All those toys need maintenance and servicing.


    I'm getting confused though, is it an urban house or a rural house? You've mentioned an ecological impact survey, yet said it is in urban Dublin. Now it's in the west of Ireland? What's the west got to do with anything? Nobody puts a bog bungalow in urban Dublin.


    I also can't figure out how you've taken a larger inheritance than siblings because you want to keep the site in the family, but you'd have no problems tossing it if you overreach your spending. Isn't that disrespectful to your family, squandering their good faith?


    Listen, for your mortgage, get married and assuming your wife is the primary earner you'll have a better chance.


    The rest sounds like dreaming at the moment.


  • #40
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    pwurple wrote: »
    Taking a partial floor off it typically doesn't change the footprint, but I've no idea what your site size is, or your plans.

    A house that costs that amount to build is very high end. My own house is about that SQM, in an urban area, good finish, and cost about half that to demolish and rebuild less than 3 years ago. My assumption therefore is that yours must have every gizmo going, central vac , pot fillers, boiling water taps, cctv, smart home, etc. All those toys need maintenance and servicing.

    To be honest I don’t feel like it’s that high end, cctv is the only thing mentioned that we are doing for. Kitchen is quite high end and the windows and doors but both are things we need and even at the lowest end they would still cost a bit.
    pwurple wrote: »
    I'm getting confused though, is it an urban house or a rural house? You've mentioned an ecological impact survey, yet said it is in urban Dublin. Now it's in the west of Ireland? What's the west got to do with anything? Nobody puts a bog bungalow in urban Dublin.

    I understand the confusion here, house is in urban Dublin (or least what I would consider urban Dublin - inside the m50) but on about an acre of land which is about 80% covered in woodland with decent populations of foxes, squirrels, bats etc. hence the ecological survey . The house is to be built in a clearing in the middle of the wooded area.
    pwurple wrote: »
    I also can't figure out how you've taken a larger inheritance than siblings because you want to keep the site in the family, but you'd have no problems tossing it if you overreach your spending. Isn't that disrespectful to your family, squandering their good faith?

    To be fair I don’t think I said I would have no problem tossing it, but I have been very clear to my that while the property is wonderful, people always come first, if I had to sell it for somebody to afford medical treatment or something I think it would be the right thing to do and think they all understand that. Similarly if it comes to a point where I literally can’t afford to feed my family then I definitely would sell it.I would of course offer it to family members to purchase first.
    pwurple wrote: »

    Listen, for your mortgage, get married and assuming your wife is the primary earner you'll have a better chance.


    The rest sounds like dreaming at the moment.

    My partner earns about the same as me.


    Also on your comment about the property tax and it representing almost 10% of my take home pay, while that was initially a bit alarming to read, the more I think about it I am less worried. Currently we are paying 1400 per month in rent so an annual charge of 2,000 doesn’t seem so bad, even including maintenance costs, home insurance etc. I don’t think we will be spending much more than the €16,800 which we are currently paying in rent annually.


  • #41
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Cyrus wrote: »
    I think people have lost the run of themselves you’ll be grand running a 200sqm house it’s not south fork you are building .
    copacetic wrote: »
    Not sure what planet you are on, but in Dublin you will have trouble getting any kid of decent builder even quote for the work, never mind build it for 200k. A small extension in Dublin costs 100k or so now.

    Thanks for these comments, some of the earlier posts had me questioning the whole thing so good to get a bit of reason. I do think 550k is expensive but 200k just isn’t realistic I think.


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  • #42
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,193 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    Thanks for these comments, some of the earlier posts had me questioning the whole thing so good to get a bit of reason. I do think 550k is expensive but 200k just isn’t realistic I think.

    i can easily see how it woul get to that, i have friends building extensions costing in the 3s so a new build at 550 isnt outlandish although it is at the higher end.

    the thing is you get one chance to do the big things right like windows, id be inclined to take it if i could.


  • #43
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Cyrus wrote: »
    i can easily see how it woul get to that, i have friends building extensions costing in the 3s so a new build at 550 isnt outlandish although it is at the higher end.

    the thing is you get one chance to do the big things right like windows, id be inclined to take it if i could.

    Look I really really wish it was cheaper, but looking at this thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058067907
    Our price per Sqm seems about average. I think building prices have just gone way up recently - especially in Dublin. That said we have gone back to the builders now and are hoping to get a it done for a bit less, but I would be hoping for 525k rather than 220k!


  • #44
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    When we did our extension we got quotes between 150 and 250K sometimes they just price high because they don't want the work.

    New build cost is about €2125 sq. m so you should be under the 500k but still close enough to it.

    https://buildcost.ie/Buildcost-Construction-Cost-Guide-2nd-Half-2020.pdf

    You need to look at finish or construction costs like eco builds. To be honest you've designed something you could never afford to build without getting a mortgage. Your architect should have know that from the outset. Our extension came it a lot more than expected but still our architect knew our budget and stuck as close to it as possible.

    Don't be blinded by what you spent already, cost a simpler design you can extend in time


  • #45
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    When we did our extension we got quotes between 150 and 250K sometimes they just price high because they don't want the work.

    New build cost is about €2125 sq. m so you should be under the 500k but still close enough to it.

    https://buildcost.ie/Buildcost-Construction-Cost-Guide-2nd-Half-2020.pdf

    You need to look at finish or construction costs like eco builds. To be honest you've designed something you could never afford to build without getting a mortgage. Your architect should have know that from the outset. Our extension came it a lot more than expected but still our architect knew our budget and stuck as close to it as possible.

    Don't be blinded by what you spent already, cost a simpler design you can extend in time

    I think you might be underestimating the cost and time to redesign.

    I really don’t think a 250,000 mortgage is that unreasonable. A colleague of mine on a similar salary was recently approved for a 330,000 mortgage, her partner makes slight more than mine but not excessively so.

    I came on here asking if I could get a 250,000 mortgage on one salary, the answer to that question is a resounding no. That’s fine, but I don think that means we need to abandon the current house design - with both of us applying for the mortgage hopefully we won’t have a problem.


  • #46
    Vikings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    Who applied for the planning permission?

    I suppose the real question I'm getting to is why would you go through the process of getting planning permission for a 200sqm home that you can't afford to build?

    I'd be echoing what others have said in terms of costs and upkeep. Are you single/any dependants? If not now, will you in the future? If no, why do you need (or want) a 200sqm home?


  • #47
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,779 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Vikings wrote: »
    Who applied for the planning permission?

    I suppose the real question I'm getting to is why would you go through the process of getting planning permission for a 200sqm home that you can't afford to build?

    I'd be echoing what others have said in terms of costs and upkeep. Are you single/any dependants? If not now, will you in the future? If no, why do you need (or want) a 200sqm home?

    I was just about to post this. 200sqm is a massive house relatively speaking.
    Why not go with something around the 1700 square foot mark? It'd be a significant cost saving and still a large house. More importantly it'd be affordable given the current constraints...


  • #48
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    "we we we" and yet the partner isn't going in on the mortgage?


  • #49
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    [
    kippy wrote: »
    I was just about to post this. 200sqm is a massive house relatively speaking.
    Why not go with something around the 1700 square foot mark? It'd be a significant cost saving and still a large house. More importantly it'd be affordable given the current constraints..

    Your probably right, but think it’s too late :) - anyway maybe we will have loads of kids and be glad of the extra space?,
    ED E wrote: »
    "we we we" and yet the partner isn't going in on the mortgage?

    Well looks like she will be if we get a mortgage.

    Posted here initially so see if it was possible to get a mortgage in just my name, it was never really plan A but wanted to see if it was possible.

    Planning had already been granted when I obtained the land, so wasn’t particularly involved in the deciding non house size


  • #50
    Happyhouse22
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Happyhouse22


    Also is 200m2 that big?

    Just had a look on daft there, sure in Dublin it’s huge - I get that.

    But then I looked at the west of Ireland in the county I grew up in and there are loads bigger.

    Look I get that smaller is more affordable, and to those that are saying build a bit smaller and make it cheaper I agree you are making a good point, but to those saying Make it smaller because 200m2 is way too big for a house I’m not sure I do agree- in rural areas most new houses are over 200m2.


  • #51
    Vikings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    Happyhouse22 wrote: »
    Also is 200m2 that big?

    Just had a look on daft there, sure in Dublin it’s huge - I get that.

    But then I looked at the west of Ireland in the county I grew up in and there are loads bigger.

    Look I get that smaller is more affordable, and to those that are saying build a bit smaller and make it cheaper I agree you are making a good point, but to those saying Make it smaller because 200m2 is way too big for a house I’m not sure I do agree- in rural areas most new houses are over 200m2.

    And if you wanted to build a 200sqm house in a rural area your 300k budget would probably get that done.

    A 200sqm rural home is a lot different to a 200sqm home in Dublin. In more ways than just the cost.


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