Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

wrangler · 01-12-2020 10:49AM

Water John wrote: »

Good point Wrangler. What I found dealing in another life with both Govn't and LAs was, once an objective was decided upon, no matter what happened or how many years went by, it was always at the top of the file and given any chance that policy was implemented.
Like charging for water, (which I agree with BTW), don't ever think it's shelved permanently.
Increasing the pension age is, part of policy, and is only temporarily postponed.

OH is 66 in 2021 so will be peeved if it changes, but she has her public service pension anyway.

yosemitesam1 · 01-12-2020 12:44PM

_Brian wrote: »

As L5 ends at last It will be interesting to see how well we can keep numbers under control.

There’s considerable feeling among folk I’ve been talking to over lately few days that Jan6th will see another L5 lockdown, that’s not an nice thought.

I think it's pretty much a given, unless changes are made to testing. As a small to moderate rise will lead to test numbers being ramped up by 20+% over a short period of time giving the illusion of a much faster rise than actually is going on.
We still have no way of knowing what the test results actually represent

greysides · 01-12-2020 02:43PM

wrangler wrote: »

OH is 66 in 2021 so will be peeved if it changes, but she has her public service pension anyway.

Public service..?

dzer2 · 01-12-2020 02:45PM

greysides wrote: »

Public service..?

Now now, hunting with the dogs and running with the hiare

wrangler · 01-12-2020 02:45PM

greysides wrote: »

Public service..?

It wouldn't be polite to send it back

_Brian · 01-12-2020 04:42PM

greysides wrote: »

Public service..?

The very ones someone always slating as useless, incompetent and lazy. 😂😂
Seamus O’Rourke couldn’t script it better.

Water John · 01-12-2020 05:46PM

I'd say Wrangler will be put into stocks in the town square.
Now if the 'public servant' had been a teacher or such in times past then being married to a farmer meant she didn't pay income tax, like my NS teachers.

alps · 01-12-2020 05:57PM

Water John wrote: »

I'd say Wrangler will be put into stocks in the town square.
Now if the 'public servant' had been a teacher or such in times past then being married to a farmer meant she didn't pay income tax, like my NS teachers.

What? Seems like payback time now...

yosemitesam1 · 01-12-2020 06:25PM

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037

_Brian · 01-12-2020 06:35PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I think it's pretty much a given, unless changes are made to testing. As a small to moderate rise will lead to test numbers being ramped up by 20+% over a short period of time giving the illusion of a much faster rise than actually is going on.
We still have no way of knowing what the test results actually represent

In fairness testing is a response to people showing symptoms amd close contacts rather than your idea that testing is damped up to artificially increase covid numbers.

More people presenting with symptoms would be a result of more covid.

This tin foil hat **** is tiresome in the extreme.

paddysdream · 01-12-2020 06:43PM

Water John wrote: »

I'd say Wrangler will be put into stocks in the town square.
Now if the 'public servant' had been a teacher or such in times past then being married to a farmer meant she didn't pay income tax, like my NS teachers.

Very much off topic but where on Earth did you get that notion?
PAYE is in Ireland 60 years at this stage.

yosemitesam1 · 01-12-2020 07:11PM

_Brian wrote: »

In fairness testing is a response to people showing symptoms amd close contacts rather than your idea that testing is damped up to artificially increase covid numbers.

I don't think it's artificially ramped up, more it's a built in fault of the testing structure that leads to positives lagging behind reality when the first increases occur and then rapidly catching up to whatever percentage of actual covid in the population that it maxes out at (which is much less than 100%).
The problem is when we are in that catch-up phase, it appears as though there's exponential growth which leads to doomsday models and lockdown when it is not necessarily the case.

theaceofspies · 01-12-2020 09:15PM

paddysdream wrote: »

Very much off topic but where on Earth did you get that notion?
PAYE is in Ireland 60 years at this stage.

Everyone except the village idiot since circa 1980 has learned that the go-to GAA man believed that if you were 'true' club man that you would be rewarded with a job as a bank official, teacher, or a Garda for example. The rest could take their chances as a bar man or **** and take a boat outside of Eire.

Not many took up the bar man job. Most of those that did take that bar job are probably regretting it now more than ever.

Life changes slowly in Ireland despite what people think.

ruwithme · 01-12-2020 09:34PM

If it wasn't Christmas in 24 days time,tony hooligan would still have us in level 5,maybe even higher.his expectations of 50 to 100 positive covid daily cases by the 2nd of December were unrealistic.

Enjoy the next few weeks folks,as i fear Tony with the help of the media (more than people being irresponsible)will have us notched back up the levels. he's clearly a determined man when he gets a notion,and will get his way with weak politicians.

paddysdream · 01-12-2020 09:34PM

theaceofspies wrote: »

Everyone except the village idiot since circa 1980 has learned that the go-to GAA man believed that if you were 'true' club man that you would be rewarded with a job as a bank official, teacher, or a Garda for example. The rest could take their chances as a bar man or **** and take a boat outside of Eire.

Not many took up the bar man job. Most of those that did take that bar job are probably regretting it now more than ever.

Life changes slowly in Ireland despite what people think.

?

greysides · 01-12-2020 10:07PM

Mod:Let's get the ship back on course, lads.

_Brian · 01-12-2020 10:22PM

I don’t get that people think Tony amd NEPHET have some hard on for having the country locked up. What do people think they gain from that ??

I think it’s more a case people don’t understand that NEPHET are tasked with advising what measures are required to best contain the virus. They aren’t tasked with social, emotional or business issues, just virus control. So it’s obvious their advice is going to be on the tighter side of restrictions because without a vaccine that’s how it’s controlled.

The government amd elected politicians have the task of combining Nephet advice with other needs and so we see what’s implemented being different to what nephet advise.

I don’t see that as a power struggle, it’s a case of taking advice from professionals amd than implementing that in a way that politicians think will work considering ALL aspects and not just virus containment.

It’s an odd system that the government have set nephet up to give separate press briefing to government briefings. Personally I like it like that. I’d rather hear things straight from scientific professionals than Stephen Donnelly’s interpretation of what he thinks I should hear.

dh1985 · 01-12-2020 11:04PM

_Brian wrote: »

I don’t get that people think Tony amd NEPHET have some hard on for having the country locked up. What do people think they gain from that ??

I think it’s more a case people don’t understand that NEPHET are tasked with advising what measures are required to best contain the virus. They aren’t tasked with social, emotional or business issues, just virus control. So it’s obvious their advice is going to be on the tighter side of restrictions because without a vaccine that’s how it’s controlled.

The government amd elected politicians have the task of combining Nephet advice with other needs and so we see what’s implemented being different to what nephet advise.

I don’t see that as a power struggle, it’s a case of taking advice from professionals amd than implementing that in a way that politicians think will work considering ALL aspects and not just virus containment.

It’s an odd system that the government have set nephet up to give separate press briefing to government briefings. Personally I like it like that. I’d rather hear things straight from scientific professionals than Stephen Donnelly’s interpretation of what he thinks I should hear.

There is no harm in questioning their policies. There not infallible. Tony holohan was the same man that publicly said there would only be an odd case on the island last february/march. These are also the people involved with running our hospitals where there is large outbreaks continuously shutting down other essential services like cancer diagnosis and treatment. The people of Ireland have done what has been asked of them in the most part and have sacrificed lots. Tony was quick coming out a week or two ago pointing to funerals as a cause of cases but no word mentioned to the naas or limerick hospital outbreaks and the lack or pre admission testing in a number of hospitals.
Found of finger pointing unless it's on their own watch.
And it's not what they gain from it more what ordinary Joe's.are sacrificing. There pay is guaranteed. The girls and guys working in Penney's not so fortunate

Albert Johnson · 01-12-2020 11:20PM

ruwithme wrote: »

If it wasn't Christmas in 24 days time,tony hooligan would still have us in level 5,maybe even higher.his expectations of 50 to 100 positive covid daily cases by the 2nd of December were unrealistic.

Enjoy the next few weeks folks,as i fear Tony with the help of the media (more than people being irresponsible)will have us notched back up the levels. he's clearly a determined man when he gets a notion,and will get his way with weak politicians.

I think it was a mistake to give NPHET the chance to independently voice there recommendations as is currently happening. There an advisory committee to officials, no private business would allow them to make recommendations to anyone outside of those tasked with decision making. By letting Tony and co publicly voice there own ideas the government have lost the ability to make decisions based on anything other than NPHET findings. We're now reaching a stage where I'm wondering is it the elected officials or the so called expert's that are making the daily decisions. I blame a lack of leadership at the start and I always thought that Holohan was being set up as a scapegoat to be used if the earliest doomsday predictions came to pass.

I have little faith in most of those in charge atm but Holohans professional record isn't without blemish either although all seems to be forgotten in recent months. I'm no fan of Donnelly among others but looking at this situation solely from a medical practitioners point of view will be our undoing imo. How can you try to legislate for all factors when one group have independent public briefings every day from which to lobby there version of events. The fact that the death rate skyrocketed on the first day post lockdown is also convenient imo, that will pave the way nicely for the topic of more restrictions in the new year.

Water John · 01-12-2020 11:34PM

We can see in the UK and US what happened when it was politicised.

vincenzolorenzo · 02-12-2020 10:57AM

_Brian wrote: »

I don’t get that people think Tony amd NEPHET have some hard on for having the country locked up. What do people think they gain from that ??

I think it’s more a case people don’t understand that NEPHET are tasked with advising what measures are required to best contain the virus. They aren’t tasked with social, emotional or business issues, just virus control. So it’s obvious their advice is going to be on the tighter side of restrictions because without a vaccine that’s how it’s controlled.

.....

It’s an odd system that the government have set nephet up to give separate press briefing to government briefings. Personally I like it like that. I’d rather hear things straight from scientific professionals than Stephen Donnelly’s interpretation of what he thinks I should hear.

You've answered your own question. Nphet are looking at one aspect of the virus only, i.e. minimise the incident rate, and it is not their job to look at the bigger picture. If we all stayed at home like April and everywhere was closed we'd have no virus but the country would be bankrupt and we'd have tens of thousands of kids receiving no education. Not realistic.

Taoiseach Tony has a live TV broadcast every day and is the most powerful man in the country, not the lads we elected last February. Nphet's job is supposed to be to advise the government, and IMO the daily broadcast is overstepping the mark

_Brian · 02-12-2020 11:03AM

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

You've answered your own question. Nphet are looking at one aspect of the virus only, i.e. minimise the incident rate, and it is not their job to look at the bigger picture. If we all stayed at home like April and everywhere was closed we'd have no virus but the country would be bankrupt and we'd have tens of thousands of kids receiving no education. Not realistic.

Taoiseach Tony has a live TV broadcast every day and is the most powerful man in the country, not the lads we elected last February. Nphet's job is supposed to be to advise the government, and IMO the daily broadcast is overstepping the mark

It’s just an information briefing.
Would you rather get information only Stephen Donnelly feels you need??

This post is a prime example of not understanding what an adviser does. The public briefings were set up by the government.

I listen to science amd science professionals, politicians ALWAYS have an angle to spin on something.

Gillespy · 02-12-2020 01:13PM

Listen to the science translates to listen to the science that I agree with.

The angle is the bigger picture. Little tyrants like Tony need to be reminded who is in charge.

yosemitesam1 · 02-12-2020 01:31PM

_Brian wrote: »

It’s just an information briefing.
Would you rather get information only Stephen Donnelly feels you need??

This post is a prime example of not understanding what an adviser does. The public briefings were set up by the government.

I listen to science amd science professionals, politicians ALWAYS have an angle to spin on something.

Everyone has their own angle to spin. There's an awful lot of parasites masquerading as academics. But nphet doesn't even have many (if any) that could really pass as scientists. It's almost entirely HSE/civil service staff

Edit to say that people would much rather if raw data and the the models in use were published in their entirety

Water John · 03-12-2020 11:27PM

Biden says, on inaugeration day he will ask all Americans to mask for 100 days.

longgonesilver · 03-12-2020 11:59PM

Thats going to be far too late unfortunatly.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40130774.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40139525.html

yosemitesam1 · 05-12-2020 10:12AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-chairman-not-clear-people-spread-covid-19-after-vaccine-2020-12%3famp

After cashing in on his Pfizer stock last month the CEO admits they don't know if the vaccine will prevent people spreading covid.
If it can't do that, there's no point in vaccinating a large amount of the population. It remains to be seen also does it protect against severe illness

Reggie. · 05-12-2020 10:56AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-chairman-not-clear-people-spread-covid-19-after-vaccine-2020-12%3famp

After cashing in on his Pfizer stock last month the CEO admits they don't know if the vaccine will prevent people spreading covid.
If it can't do that, there's no point in vaccinating a large amount of the population. It remains to be seen also does it protect against severe illness

Shock horror there. What did they think would be the story after rushing the development

_Brian · 05-12-2020 11:27AM

Soooo taking the vaccine is better protection than waiting for other people to take it and hoping your protected.

Sorta makes sense right.

Taking the vaccine doesn’t stop you spreading it round by poor hand hygiene etc.

endainoz · 05-12-2020 11:44AM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-chairman-not-clear-people-spread-covid-19-after-vaccine-2020-12%3famp

After cashing in on his Pfizer stock last month the CEO admits they don't know if the vaccine will prevent people spreading covid.
If it can't do that, there's no point in vaccinating a large amount of the population. It remains to be seen also does it protect against severe illness

I don't see an issue with the stock thing that you keep bringing up, it was a perfectly acceptable business decision, nothing underhanded about it.

The vaccine won't work if it's not given to a large number of the population, this can be eradicated if the take up is high enough. As Brian said people could still be carriers, the virus can stay on a surface for a certain period of time.

I saw a doctor speak about this before and the way to look as it would be to imagine a "swiss cheese" type scenario. One slice would represent the vaccine, anti vaxxers would be some holes in that slice. The next slice would be hand hygiene, the next would be social distancing etc. You get the idea; the vaccine is not a silver bullet, it needs to be used in conjunction with other methods.

Coronavirus Pandemic Information- Local and Worldwide

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