Arcadia group collapse.

the purple tin · 01-12-2020 1:48pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes, however people don’t want to wear the same thing over and over again. They want cheap and disposable.

That's part of the problem. A lot of people will instantly go for the cheapest option even if it is junk. It's a false economy.

Christmas tree decorations for instance, flimsy crap made in the Chinese factories will sell like hotcakes. people will be replacing that stuff every couple of years when it breaks.
If they bought some good quality handmade wooden or wool decorations they could last a lifetime.

They would look at the price though and say 'no way' even though they will spend way more than that buying their Chinese junk every few years for the rest of their life.

MrMusician18 · 01-12-2020 2:04pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Actually the packaging and transport to the customeris causing extra damage. If you add returns there is no way that's more sustainable model.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/27/critics-slam-pretty-little-things-8p-black-friday-dress-deal

Don't understand this. There's some extra packaging I agree, but the product still has to be transported home, whether or not it's bought in a shop or online. The only difference is who does the transporting

A centralized distribution is likely far more efficient environmentally (certainly economically) than a distributed store network, which has light, heat and maintenance as well as staff transport emissions to consider.

GarIT · 01-12-2020 2:06pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Don't understand this. There's some extra packaging I agree, but the product still has to be transported home, whether or not it's bought in a shop or online. The only difference is who does the transporting

A centralized distribution is likely far more efficient environmentally (certainly economically) than a distributed store network, which has light, heat and maintenance as well as staff transport emissions to consider.

I've ordered a few things over the last few days and they have mostly arrived in separate unmarked vans, one in a jeep actually. Neighbours constantly having vans pull up outside too.

Things could be improved with one van coming through the estate once a day like the post.

freshpopcorn · 01-12-2020 2:09pm

the purple tin wrote: »

That's part of the problem. A lot of people will instantly go for the cheapest option even if it is junk. It's a false economy.

Christmas tree decorations for instance, flimsy crap made in the Chinese factories will sell like hotcakes. people will be replacing that stuff every couple of years when it breaks.
If they bought some good quality handmade wooden or wool decorations they could last a lifetime.

They would look at the price though and say 'no way' even though they will spend way more than that buying their Chinese junk every few years for the rest of their life.

Even when people buy good quality stuff they want something new and the good quality item is just thrown out or shoved in the corner in my experience.

freshpopcorn · 01-12-2020 2:13pm

I know a lady who banned online shopping due to the packaging. She was very into environmental issues and sustainable products.
When the kids grew up they rebelled on her big time.

MrMusician18 · 01-12-2020 2:20pm

GarIT wrote: »

I've ordered a few things over the last few days and they have mostly arrived in separate unmarked vans, one in a jeep actually. Neighbours constantly having vans pull up outside too.

Things could be improved with one van coming through the estate once a day like the post.

I somehow doubt they are just journeying from the distribution center to you and heading home for the day. They have other parcels obviously on route

If you had gone and bought those in a shop, you'd have had to make that journey, perhaps several times, if you couldn't do it in the one trip.

meeeeh · 01-12-2020 2:22pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Don't understand this. There's some extra packaging I agree, but the product still has to be transported home, whether or not it's bought in a shop or online. The only difference is who does the transporting

A centralized distribution is likely far more efficient environmentally (certainly economically) than a distributed store network, which has light, heat and maintenance as well as staff transport emissions to consider.

Every package is sent from distribution centre unless you are buying from small local online business all the stuff is flying in from distribution centres in another country. Sports supplier for example would before send stock to their shops in big batches where would be bought by people doing shopping and more often than not buying a few things at once. Now individual boxes are collected by courier, driven to sorting centre, sent to different countries in individual packaging and sorted and individually delivered to customers. The process is repeated whenever the item needs to be sent back.

I have nothing against online shopping, I mostly shop online. However let's just not pretend that flying individual packages around is good for environment, when before stuff would be kept in local warehouses and delivered to shops.

breezy1985 · 01-12-2020 2:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

He is starting next year though.

Yes you a re correct but the rules allowed for it if he wanted to.

Rohan Dennis actually did do it in 2015

riclad · 01-12-2020 2:34pm

hopefully in a years time ,the pandemic will be over,
People will go back to shopping ,browsing and buying things in a real shop
is better than clicking on amazon .they call it retail therapy ,not everyone wants to just buy the cheapest item online.
people have been saying retail is over for years .
landlords will have to compromise regarding reducing rents or else they may find it hard to find a client for large buildings in certain areas

atilladehun · 01-12-2020 2:52pm

Having worked in multiple shops the packaging most items arrived to the shop is on par if not worse than current home delivery. Each item was always individually wrapped with extra needless paper and clips. Quite often a hanger was included to be binned immediately as the store had reusable ones. If the hanger was kept it was binned at till.

Then a completely new piece of branded packaging was used for the customer to take it home in.

Vast majority of shops were open on Monday Tuesday Wednesday when shops would make a dramatic loss. They were over lit and over heated to have gaping big doorways.

Customers who have to arrive in their thousands of inefficient engines to make the store viable.

The past was no nirvana.

4-5 vans making deliveries to ten estates a day is better than all those cars going out just to pick up something or have a browse.

The current situation isn't the answer either. We're stuck in a situation where we need consumerism to fund millions of jobs.

It is human nature to trade however. We just need much better international laws that forces successful companies to contribute to society.

MrMusician18 · 01-12-2020 2:53pm

riclad wrote: »

hopefully in a years time ,the pandemic will be over,
People will go back to shopping ,browsing and buying things in a real shop
is better than clicking on amazon .they call it retail therapy ,not everyone wants to just buy the cheapest item online.
people have been saying retail is over for years .
landlords will have to compromise regarding reducing rents or else they may find it hard to find a client for large buildings in certain areas

I've made a conscious decision to support local this Christmas, and so far it has cost me €250 in additional expense over and above what I could get it from from the cheapest online retailer. I'm fortunate in that I don't have money worries, but not everyone is.

Making a genuine attempt to support local retailers is a lot like unrequited love. There appears to be no genuine effort to be close to competitive (generally).

GarIT · 01-12-2020 3:01pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I somehow doubt they are just journeying from the distribution center to you and heading home for the day. They have other parcels obviously on route

If you had gone and bought those in a shop, you'd have had to make that journey, perhaps several times, if you couldn't do it in the one trip.

Absolutely. I'm just saying that 5 vans each driving to 5 estates is less efficient than 5 vans driving to one estate each. I actually did my thesis on this.

GarIT · 01-12-2020 3:04pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I've made a conscious decision to support local this Christmas, and so far it has cost me €250 in additional expense over and above what I could get it from from the cheapest online retailer. I'm fortunate in that I don't have money worries, but not everyone is.

Making a genuine attempt to support local retailers is a lot like unrequited love. There appears to be no genuine effort to be close to competitive (generally).

Or have good customer service. With Amazon, customer says something is broken Amazon replace it without questioning the customer and often tell the customer to keep the item. With a local company they will fight to the death to get out of replacing it. And they want the return sent by insured registered post that costs €30.

GarIT · 01-12-2020 3:07pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Every package is sent from distribution centre unless you are buying from small local online business all the stuff is flying in from distribution centres in another country. Sports supplier for example would before send stock to their shops in big batches where would be bought by people doing shopping and more often than not buying a few things at once. Now individual boxes are collected by courier, driven to sorting centre, sent to different countries in individual packaging and sorted and individually delivered to customers. The process is repeated whenever the item needs to be sent back.

I have nothing against online shopping, I mostly shop online. However let's just not pretend that flying individual packages around is good for environment, when before stuff would be kept in local warehouses and delivered to shops.

That's not how it works. Everything is done by boat and it's quite efficient. Only the likes of UPS will transport things by plane and you pay a premium for it. Sure stuff to the US is often sent by plane but it's incredibly rare and low volume.

The transport process is virtually the exact same until it gets to the local distribution centre. Previously goods are collected by the truck off the boat and sent to the retailer, now they are collected by the truck and brought to the distribution centre.

breezy1985 · 01-12-2020 3:36pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I've made a conscious decision to support local this Christmas, and so far it has cost me €250 in additional expense over and above what I could get it from from the cheapest online retailer. I'm fortunate in that I don't have money worries, but not everyone is.

Making a genuine attempt to support local retailers is a lot like unrequited love. There appears to be no genuine effort to be close to competitive (generally).

A lot of small business can't afford to be competitive price wise because they can't take the hit on sales or loss leaders

sbsquarepants · 01-12-2020 4:07pm

GarIT wrote: »

The transport process is virtually the exact same until it gets to the local distribution centre. Previously goods are collected by the truck off the boat and sent to the retailer, now they are collected by the truck and brought to the distribution centre.

And the final leg of the journey has to be a lot more efficient than countless individual journeys into a host of shops.

meeeeh · 01-12-2020 4:27pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/26/tech/greenhouse-gas-emissions-retail/index.html

This is on the subject. Click and collect is the most effective but it depends from country to country.

Geuze · 01-12-2020 4:39pm

riclad wrote: »

landlords will have to compromise regarding reducing rents or else they may find it hard to find a client for large buildings in certain areas

Yes, retail rents are way too high.

MrMusician18 · 01-12-2020 5:31pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

A lot of small business can't afford to be competitive price wise because they can't take the hit on sales or loss leaders

Until they can be competitive we will just see businesses like Arcadia continue to collapse. That means massive rent reductions are required. That said, rural based business online in Ireland isn't competitive either and they don't have such rent pressures. When it comes to bricks and mortar stores, there just isn't the margins available anymore to sustain these kinds of business, unless you are service orientated retail, e.g. selling makeup and applying it to the customer. That's what Arcadia has found out, and Debenhams etc.

While I can choose to pay €60 more for a pair of hiking boots local online/in store vs international online specialist, most people won't. Indeed I wouldn't only I know local business has suffered heavily during the pandemic and I'm luck to be in the position to be able to do so.

Does that make me a sucker, I don't know tbh. One of my more sarcastic friends suggested that I should just buy online from the seller with the best price and customer service and just post a cheque with the difference to my chosen retailer if I wanted to feel better about myself...

meeeeh · 01-12-2020 5:39pm

It's very hard to be price competitive with the likes of Boohoo, Amazon or whatever other cheap online retailer. And even if they are competing for less price conscious consumer they can't compete with brand range. Majority of stuff I buy online isn't even available in Ireland let alone in local shops.

ShatterAlan · 01-12-2020 6:05pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

In pro cycling all teams have to put money into a special fund so that if they go bust half way through a season the riders will still get paid.
Business should be forced to do the same and none of this operating on pure debt crap anymore

But don't you know if you are in favour of implementing regulations on capitalism then you are a filthy, commie pinko who should just fcuk off to North Korea.

silver2020 · 01-12-2020 6:35pm

The "rents are too high" argument is long gone out the window.

If it was just rents, a CVA (UK) or Examinership here would change rents of landlords didn't budge and with most shopping centres at 95%+ occupancy, its definitely not rents that were the problem with arcadia.

they were simply boring old sh1te shops with overpriced tat that people didn't want.

the good retailers understand that "fashion" retail names last no more than 15 or so years and change formats or create new formats - the Zara group is an example as is the Bestseller group (Jack & Jones, Vero Moda, Only, Twenty1, MandM direct and others).

Arcadia's brands were dead, boring, stale, putrid. - "Burtons", "Dorothy Perkins" "Wallis" "Evans" - names your granny shopped with when she was young.

Poorly run retail - never ending sales, boring shops & overpriced tat just like debenhams.

GarIT · 01-12-2020 8:15pm

silver2020 wrote: »

The "rents are too high" argument is long gone out the window.

If it was just rents, a CVA (UK) or Examinership here would change rents of landlords didn't budge and with most shopping centres at 95%+ occupancy, its definitely not rents that were the problem with arcadia.

they were simply boring old sh1te shops with overpriced tat that people didn't want.

the good retailers understand that "fashion" retail names last no more than 15 or so years and change formats or create new formats - the Zara group is an example as is the Bestseller group (Jack & Jones, Vero Moda, Only, Twenty1, MandM direct and others).

Arcadia's brands were dead, boring, stale, putrid. - "Burtons", "Dorothy Perkins" "Wallis" "Evans" - names your granny shopped with when she was young.

Poorly run retail - never ending sales, boring shops & overpriced tat just like debenhams.

I had a shop in the square, the size of a box room. Rent was €80,000 per years +other fees. A unit the size of Topshop was well over €2m. They probably spend more on rent than staff. Shopping centres need to start accepting a % of profit instead of fixed rent.

The sale of the square almost fell through and it was not long before it would have been closed. Filling it with apartments was one idea considered.

The Square offered Penneys €6m in cash to cover the costs of opening a shop in The Square and Penneys turned it down.

Darc19 · 01-12-2020 8:34pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Am i the only one who fails to give a shít about these things? Companies close, companies open, life goes on. Who really gives a rats arse? If you've lost your job in top shop, you need to go look for another one somewhere else, simple as. It's a pain in the hole, especially at this time of year, but hey ho.

Grafton street won't lie empty for long, people seem to have an insatiable thirst for over priced crap they don't really need. Someone will fill those empty units with some other god awfull pile of shíte and people will line up to buy that instead.

Precisely.

I suspect that there are retailers queuing up for most of the better sites already.

Next have developed a department store concept - they were meant to be taking at least three of the Irish debenhams stores, but the ongoing union action stopped that proceeding.

Flannels Department stores (sports direct) are looking for stores.

TK Maxx are looking for stores.

JD sports are looking for extra large stores

I reckon that most Arcadia and debenhams stores will be trading again within 9-10 months with a mix of above.

pjproby · 01-12-2020 9:02pm

T K Maxx have a brand new unit in Liffey Valley, it looks ready to open. They are not going to take Arcadia's units there

Darc19 · 01-12-2020 9:38pm

pjproby wrote: »

T K Maxx have a brand new unit in Liffey Valley, it looks ready to open. They are not going to take Arcadia's units there

I was generalizing about the number of immediate potential retailers that are looking for large units in the UK and here.

Next, JD and Flannels are very active looking for locations.

TK Maxx probably less so as they have many areas already covered.

L1011 · 01-12-2020 9:38pm

Arcadia left Liffey Valley in a huff about three years ago... with the exception of a single Wallis store

Burtons, Topshop/Man, Evans, Miss Selfridge and Dorothy Perkins all out.

Darc19 · 01-12-2020 10:04pm

L1011 wrote: »

Arcadia left Liffey Valley in a huff about three years ago... with the exception of a single Wallis store

Burtons, Topshop/Man, Evans, Miss Selfridge and Dorothy Perkins all out.

I haven't been in Liffey Valley for a few years, but I would assume that all those units are occupied by other retail stores now.

Same in blanchardstown where they also left.

McGinniesta · 01-12-2020 10:09pm

This is the start of it now.

Economic devastation

Capt'n Midnight · 01-12-2020 10:46pm

spook_cook wrote: »

The timing is rotten. It's crap to lose your job but worse so in the leadup to Christmas.

Especially in the UK where jobseekers allowance isn't much,

and Brexit too means that they may be the only OECD country not to recover by 2022.

Deleted User wrote: »

In a years time the UK could be headed for Universal Basic Income.

I can't see it happening any time soon. Tories spending money on the poor ?

Best you might get is promises run up to an election.

Between Sinn Fein not voting and the DUP scared to death of a border poll the Tories have an effective majority of 100 and besides their MP's will have no desire for an election any time soon. And Labour are still busy in-fighting.

Arcadia group collapse.

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