Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

26-11-2020 08:10PM

Stark wrote: »

Please no spoilers for episode 7, some of us are on Netflix schedule.

That’s why I didn’t want to specifically ask, but if it is what I think it is then it’s probably time to end my viewing.

pixelburp · 26-11-2020 08:53PM

I'm only on episode 6, which I thought was the strongest episode so far. I've given up on that episode threads cos the constant pedantic deconstruction gets much; I respect that we all have opinions, but I've wondered if some are seeking negatives beyond those the show present.

Without spoiling specifics, the episodes strength lies in it finally showing some repercussions for Burnham's actions; it goes a long way, not least for revealing the writers are at least vaguely aware their lead character is a loose canon.

mikhail · 26-11-2020 11:11PM

pixelburp wrote: »

I've given up on that episode threads cos the constant pedantic deconstruction gets much; I respect that we all have opinions, but I've wondered if some are seeking negatives beyond those the show present.

I understand where you're coming from. There are definitely some posters making an effort to find positives (usually with some counterpoints in the same post!), but no one gets worked up over the positives, so the griping dominates. It doesn't bother me, but to each his own.

FFVII · 26-11-2020 11:23PM

I'd never have thought or even considered 99% of the complaining that goes on in here.

Baggly · 26-11-2020 11:28PM

I gave it a chance and have defended it previously but its just getting silly in parts. I'm allowed to have my opinion and I've been patient in forming it. I don't see why it would be immune to criticism.

Comparing this even to Picard is like looking at night and day. It's totally disjointed and top heavy episode to episode.

breezy1985 · 26-11-2020 11:34PM

Baggly wrote: »

I gave it a chance and have defended it previously but its just getting silly in parts. I'm allowed to have my opinion and I've been patient in forming it. I don't see why it would be immune to criticism.

Comparing this even to Picard is like looking at night and day. It's totally disjointed and top heavy episode to episode.

Theres a whole group on the TrekBBS forum that cant have anything bad said about it and rate every episode 9 or 10 out of 10. People quoting them as all time best Trek episodes.

They have answers for every bad plot or decision that would put conspiracy nuts to shame

27-11-2020 03:53AM

Baggly wrote: »

I gave it a chance and have defended it previously but its just getting silly in parts. I'm allowed to have my opinion and I've been patient in forming it. I don't see why it would be immune to criticism.

Comparing this even to Picard is like looking at night and day. It's totally disjointed and top heavy episode to episode.

Anything will come out looking good when compared to Picard.

JeffKenna · 27-11-2020 04:30AM

Goodshape wrote: »

I liked ep. 7.

:shrug:

How are people watching eposide 7? When I check Netflix I only have up to eposide 6.

27-11-2020 06:08AM

JeffKenna wrote: »

How are people watching eposide 7? When I check Netflix I only have up to eposide 6.

I asked the same question. It's the US timeline.

Now, this may be by illegal means, so basically they are the mirrorverse version of us

pixelburp · 27-11-2020 10:18AM

Baggly wrote: »

I gave it a chance and have defended it previously but its just getting silly in parts. I'm allowed to have my opinion and I've been patient in forming it. I don't see why it would be immune to criticism.

Comparing this even to Picard is like looking at night and day. It's totally disjointed and top heavy episode to episode.

I never said the show shouldn't be immune to criticism; what I mean was that I can't read the Episode threads anymore because they all read like solid examples of the "Hate Watch" now, tearing after every small blip for funsies. It's just boring to read now, and don't find the threads that interesting anymore. It's not unique to Trek but I couldn't be bothered engaging with that approach. Hate watching can be fun in small doses but not an entire forum.

Baggly · 27-11-2020 10:21AM

pixelburp wrote: »

I never said the show shouldn't be immune to criticism; what I mean was that I can't read the Episode threads anymore because they all read like solid examples of the "Hate Watch" now, tearing after every small blip for funsies. It's just boring to read now, and don't find the threads that interesting anymore. It's not unique to Trek but I couldn't be bothered engaging with that approach. Hate watching can be fun in small doses but not an entire forum.

My post was in response to the poster immediately before me rather than your post, but fair enough!

Evade · 27-11-2020 11:36AM

The problem with discussing STD is the highs are middling at best so the lows get focused on.

Goodshape · 27-11-2020 12:00PM

Evade wrote: »

The problem with discussing STD is the highs are middling at best so the lows get focused on.

I'm surprised the most recent episode has been so poorly received, so far. Like there's that one glaringly silly thing they did, which everyone seems to be exclusively focusing on. But the rest of the episode was pretty cool, no?

And yeah, Burnham was in the middle of everything again but she is the star of the show. Beating the dead horse complaining about that.

Aside from those two blips, I thought the continuation of the Unification story was satisfying. The courtroom / ceremony stuff was classic Trek and much better than last weeks Doctor Who style planet escape.

But yeah, the lows get focused on. They are pretty deep lows, I suppose.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 12:07PM

Goodshape wrote: »

I'm surprised the most recent episode has been so poorly received, so far. Like there's that one glaringly silly thing they did, which everyone seems to be exclusively focusing on. But the rest of the episode was pretty cool, no?

And yeah, Burnham was in the middle of everything again but she is the star of the show. Beating the dead horse complaining about that.

Aside from those two blips, I thought the continuation of the Unification story was satisfying. The courtroom / ceremony stuff was classic Trek and much better than last weeks Doctor Who style planet escape.

But yeah, the lows get focused on. They are pretty deep lows, I suppose.

That episode had a nice clip of Spock and a good argument between some diplomats. That was about 5 minutes in a show that spent the next 40 telling Burnham and Tilly they are special through teary eyes and whispers. So that's about 10% of the episode that wasn't crap

If I served on that ship I'd request a transfer day 1 the second I see them all moping round the corridors crying all the time. I wouldn't trust any of them mentally if a battle started

Goodshape · 27-11-2020 12:15PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

That episode had a nice clip of Spock and a good argument between some diplomats. That was about 5 minutes in a show that spent the next 40 telling Burnham and Tilly they are special through teary eyes and whispers. So that's about 10% of the episode that wasn't crap

If I served on that ship I'd request a transfer day 1 the second I see them all moping round the corridors crying all the time. I wouldn't trust any of them mentally if a battle started

Felt the other way around to me. A few silly scenes with Tilly becoming XO but most of it was good courtroom stuff with the diplomats. I was also just really happy that

they resolved the mother-Burnham story without it being the cause of and solution to absolutely everything

. I was in a good mood with the episode after that reveal. I'd been expecting the worst from that arc.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 12:36PM

Goodshape wrote: »

Felt the other way around to me. A few silly scenes with Tilly becoming XO but most of it was good courtroom stuff with the diplomats. I was also just really happy that
they resolved the mother-Burnham story without it being the cause of and solution to absolutely everything
. I was in a good mood with the episode after that reveal. I'd been expecting the worst from that arc.

Same about the mother thing. But there was no courtroom drama because after 5 seconds it because not about the facts but the contents of Michael's heart

Joe Don Dante · 27-11-2020 12:44PM

Michael would sicken your hole now, Burn this, Burn that .... wah wah wah

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 12:48PM

Joe Don Dante wrote: »

Michael would sicken your hole now, Burn this, Burn that .... wah wah wah

150 years and no one else though of looking

pixelburp · 27-11-2020 02:31PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

150 years and no one else though of looking

Well ain't that a specific criticism easily levelled at any work of fiction? Why is it the lead characters are always the ones to solve the problem / save the world / become the Chosen One? Cos they're the lead characters :pac:

Besides, the Burn sounds so cataclysmic, I daresay many planets and power structures were barely managing to stay afloat, let alone rationalise the whys or hows. Look at the Federation: before Discovery added a new string to its bow it sounds like it was struggling to keep its nose in front of events.

I'm sure some folk tried looking into what happened, but with the galaxy effectively now lawless, and the means to travel/communicate severely reduced, who'd have the means to do it properly?

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 02:54PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Well ain't that a specific criticism easily levelled at any work of fiction? Why is it the lead characters are always the ones to solve the problem / save the world / become the Chosen One? Cos they're the lead characters :pac:

Besides, the Burn sounds so cataclysmic, I daresay many planets and power structures were barely managing to stay afloat, let alone rationalise the whys or hows. Look at the Federation: before Discovery added a new string to its bow it sounds like it was struggling to keep its nose in front of events.

I'm sure some folk tried looking into what happened, but with the galaxy effectively now lawless, and the means to travel/communicate severely reduced, who'd have the means to do it properly?

No it's not a specific criticism easily leveled at any work of fiction.

Usually in Star Trek or Sci-fi the universe wide threat is immediate and that's why the hero of the day steps up people don't sit on their arses for 150 years waiting for the hero. What she done wasn't hard to work out or something that only Discovery could do through special knowledge it was just a few black boxes that no one outside Burnham seems to remember ships have

pixelburp · 27-11-2020 03:15PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

No it's not a specific criticism easily leveled at any work of fiction.

Usually in Star Trek or Sci-fi the universe wide threat is immediate and that's why the hero of the day steps up people don't sit on their arses for 150 years waiting for the hero. What she done wasn't hard to work out or something that only Discovery could do through special knowledge it was just a few black boxes that no one outside Burnham seems to remember ships have

But then that's what I"ve said in the following paragraphs: this isn't a "threat" - the Burn literally happened faster than whole organisations could handle the fallout. Planets - presumably entire systems - collapsed because in a relative instant their economies and societies collapsed from the sudden loss of supplies, communications and basic infrastructure. I find it perfectly believable that yeah, in the desperate scramble to keep heads above water, no time or bandwidth was given to investigate the issue. 150 years is a long time sure, but I guess within that vacuum warlords et al inserted themselves, disinterested in "solving" the problem. R&D kinda goes out the window when the galaxy becomes - in effect - post-apocalyptic.

breezy1985 · 27-11-2020 03:25PM

pixelburp wrote: »

But then that's what I"ve said in the following paragraphs: this isn't a "threat" - the Burn literally happened faster than whole organisations could handle the fallout. Planets - presumably entire systems - collapsed because in a relative instant their economies and societies collapsed from the sudden loss of supplies, communications and basic infrastructure. I find it perfectly believable that yeah, in the desperate scramble to keep heads above water, no time or bandwidth was given to investigate the issue. 150 years is a long time sure, but I guess within that vacuum warlords et al inserted themselves, disinterested in "solving" the problem. R&D kinda goes out the window when the galaxy becomes - in effect - post-apocalyptic.

But if solving the burn does what Burnham says it will do and bring the galaxy back together then not solving it was a threat to the galaxy.

But Burnham believes in her heart harder than anyone else thats why only she can do it. It's like a bloody Disney movie

Evade · 27-11-2020 03:27PM

It's hard to have a breakdown of society from economic collapse when, in the former Federation at least, everyone has access to a replicator. The argument that replicators might be difficult to produce and maintain falls flat in the face of the advancements in transporter technology. Unless the lack of new holonovels and the annual trip to Risa just pushed everyone over the edge.

pixelburp · 27-11-2020 03:33PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

But if solving the burn does what Burnham says it will do and bring the galaxy back together then not solving it was a threat to the galaxy.

But Burnham believes in her heart harder than anyone else thats why only she can do it. It's like a bloody Disney movie

Never said the writing around Burnham's crusade wasn't poor, only contesting this idea that it unbelievable nobody in 150 years nobody tried looking into the whys. As suspensions of disbelief go, it doesn't seem that big a dealbreaker to me.

Evade wrote: »

It's hard to have a breakdown of society from economic collapse when, in the former Federation at least, everyone has access to a replicator. The argument that replicators might be difficult to produce and maintain falls flat in the face of the advancements in transporter technology. Unless the lack of new holonovels and the annual trip to Risa just pushed everyone over the edge.

Replicators is a fair point, but how finely balanced was the galaxy, that its peace was dependent on the presence of Federation/Romulan ships in orbit at any given point? Suddenly every politician or warlord otherwise cowed into subservience can make their move without risk of reprisals. Isn't that the fundamental weakness of advanced societies, even our own? That it wouldn't take much to tip it over the edge if a single - but critical - element of society was removed. We saw in DS9 that plenty of space still relied on standard transport ships, maybe replicators are expensive to maintain. I wouldn't consider myself particularly fatalistic, but nor am I naive to the idea that civilisations are as strong as they might appear to be.

Evade · 27-11-2020 03:52PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Replicators is a fair point, but how finely balanced was the galaxy, that its peace was dependent on the presence of Federation/Romulan ships in orbit at any given point? Suddenly every politician or warlord otherwise cowed into subservience can make their move without risk of reprisals. Isn't that the fundamental weakness of advanced societies, even our own? That it wouldn't take much to tip it over the edge if a single - but critical - element of society was removed. We saw in DS9 that plenty of space still relied on standard transport ships, maybe replicators are expensive to maintain. I wouldn't consider myself particularly fatalistic, but nor am I naive to the idea that civilisations are as strong as they might appear to be.

Sure, warlords or despots can and almost certainly will pop up in places but your initial point was economic collapse causing society to break apart which can't really happen in the universe as we know it. Replicators and transporters are essentially the same technology, if one is still around so is the other.

Without the chaos of a collapsing society to worry about it is unreasonable that Starfleet hasn't tried to investigate the cause of the burn until Michael Burnham (peace be upon her) thought about it. Especially considering reversing the Burn would help quash those warlords and rogue politicians.

Goodshape · 27-11-2020 06:29PM

Mandalorian is fantastic this week.

Stoopid starwars

FunLover18 · 28-11-2020 01:27AM

Goodshape wrote: »

Mandalorian is fantastic this week.

Stoopid starwars

I'm not Discovery's biggest fan by a long way but give me Discovery over The Mandalorian any day.

GreeBo · 29-11-2020 01:02AM

I never liked any of the star wars stuff (I want science in my science fiction, not magic) but Mando is a good watch and written much better than disco , individual episodes coupled with a season arc.

FunLover18 · 29-11-2020 03:28AM

I'm not going to get into my issues with The Mandalorian but I feel anyone who enjoys it isn't allowed then come here and criticise Discovery for plot contrivances, that's not to say anyone has mind.

flazio · 29-11-2020 05:47AM

Really? We have to pick one or the other? We can't enjoy them both?

Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Star Trek Discovery Season 3 [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]