Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 02:38PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Assumed from all the coverage it would be tomorrow it would be announced:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1331947615760617472

Good luck with that one Leo

No matter the case number people will travel home for Christmas

He even admitted that the other day

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 02:41PM

Turtwig wrote: »

No problem with retail and many services sectors restrictions being relaxed. Hairdressers and the like should open. Have a serious concern over indoor dining and pubs. Outdoors maybe but indoors no. People were going to gather in their houses anyway. The indoor venues being open leads to huge potential for super spreader events as households gatherings that wouldn't be mixed will now be far more likely to be mixed in the public venues. Only takes a few individuals to spread it to dozens.

This is going to cause far more economic pain in the long term. Nevermind, what the status of our health care will be.

If a vaccine was five years off I could understand this more. But, in all likelihood it's much closer. Could we not have a sort of national holiday or commeration then?

Outdoor dining in December is unrealistic

If people are going to gather in their houses anyway it's better to be in a regulated indoor dining environment than one that's not

Turtwig · 26-11-2020 02:47PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Outdoor dining in December is unrealistic

If people are going to gather in their houses anyway it's better to be in a regulated indoor dining environment than one that's not

I would suggest outdoor drinking isn't as unfeasible as outdoor dining.

The problem is they're just going to use both environments; the house and regulated pub. In that regulated environment they'll be exposed to other individuals (from other households) who will also be using both environments. Having indoor venues open compounds the issue.

ElJeffe · 26-11-2020 02:52PM

So so sad

https://news.sky.com/story/honestie-hodges-girl-whose-arrest-caused-outrage-dies-from-coronavirus-at-14-12142840

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 03:06PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Good luck with that one Leo

No matter the case number people will travel home for Christmas

He even admitted that the other day

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:07PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

Absolutely but now it's not decided

Going to use that as a threat again

Jokeshop

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:09PM

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

eagle eye · 26-11-2020 03:11PM

Deleted User wrote:

Have you reason to suggest the papers linked in the article I posted are flawed?

My contention is that we have been giving differing opinions and not from insane sources.
What I do see in a lot if articles is an unwillingness to fully commit and be definitive.
The quotes you have in.your post are more argumentative than definitive.

Here's the study

Furthermore, children and young adults were found to be potentially much more important to transmitting the virus — especially within households — than previous studies have identified, according to a paper by researchers from the United States and India published Sept. 30 in the journal Science.

Researchers from the Princeton Environmental Institute (PEI), Johns Hopkins University and the University of California, Berkeley, worked with public health officials in the southeast Indian states of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh to track the infection pathways and mortality rate of 575,071 individuals who were exposed to 84,965 confirmed cases of COVID-19, the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2. It is the largest contact tracing study — which is the process of identifying people who came into contact with an infected person — conducted in the world for any disease.

Lead researcher Ramanan Laxminarayan, a senior research scholar in PEI, said that the paper is the first large study to capture the extraordinary extent to which SARS-CoV-2 hinges on “superspreading,” in which a small percentage of the infected population passes the virus on to more people. The researchers found that 71% of infected individuals did not infect any of their contacts, while a mere 8% of infected individuals accounted for 60% of new infections.

“Our study presents the largest empirical demonstration of superspreading that we are aware of in any infectious disease,” Laxminarayan said. “Superspreading events are the rule rather than the exception when one is looking at the spread of COVID-19, both in India and likely in all affected places.”

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/09/30/largest-covid-19-contact-tracing-study-date-finds-children-key-spread-evidence

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 03:11PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

Personally I don't think government will roll over. Most journalists saying government expected it and its no surprise to them, rte saying its still going ahead.

"Ministers look set to agree to reopen restaurants and gastro pubs at some point in December and to allow them to serve food indoors."

podgeandrodge · 26-11-2020 03:11PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

I think we all know it will cause a spike, opening anything will. But there used to be that concept of 'living with covid' which I hope Govt. will remember.

Unfortunately asking NPHET for a view, is like asking your doctor if it's ok for you to go for a few pints every Friday. They're never going to say it's ok!

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 03:13PM

Sums it up pretty well. At least make a like for like comparison

https://twitter.com/LukeMartin_DL/status/1331960965429080070?s=19

Funsterdelux · 26-11-2020 03:17PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

Leo is writing a letter to Christina Aguilera to ask her to go back in the bottle.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:17PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Personally I don't think government will roll over. Most journalists saying government expected it and its no surprise to them, rte saying its still going ahead.

"Ministers look set to agree to reopen restaurants and gastro pubs at some point in December and to allow them to serve food indoors."

Might be a fudge so

We want to open on December 7th

NPHET don't want ye opened at all

So we will open around the 14th so be happy

I'll still believe the government will go against NPHET when things are actually opened

I can picture the RTE conversations already

NPHET recommeneded keeping hospitality shut but ye went against them. Why?

Ad nauseam

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:20PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sums it up pretty well. At least make a like for like comparison

https://twitter.com/LukeMartin_DL/status/1331960965429080070?s=19

Yeah a brilliant comparison from NPHET to use :mad:

NunianVonFuch · 26-11-2020 03:24PM

If they open the restaurants and "Dry" pubs before Christmas there'll be a flood of Christmas parties booked, it's practically guaranteed we lockdown again in January. We may have to anyway with Christmas spikes from Christmas festivities in general. It's foolish to think the Gov aren't aware of this as Varadkar already hinted at locking down again in January.

Now this may be preferable to the Gov, Vintners and the public as they'll get in a bit of a sesh with the vaccine news and let off a bit of steam after this 6 week lockdown ends. Plus everyone in a normal year typically do less socially in January and some have a tradition of having a "Dry" January anyway so it may make more sense to splurge in December and lock up again in January as it won't be too different overall to a normal year.

Mitch Connor · 26-11-2020 03:25PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I can picture the RTE conversations already

NPHET recommeneded keeping hospitality shut but ye went against them. Why?

Ad nauseam

I personally don't see this as wrong.

IMO it isn't for NPHET to make recommendations based on economic impact (maybe i am wrong on that). IMO they should make recommendations based on public health and that alone. And the government should make decisons based on their recommendations, weighed against a more encompassing decision set - economy, enforcement, public buy in and public fatigue included.

I have no real issue with NPHET making a recommendation they believe in, nor do I have an issue with the government taking that into consideration and making a different decision (of which I would assume they would consult with NPHET to understand the best way of implenting what they decide upon). And, having made a different decision, I have no issue with them being asked to account for that decision. If it is economic reasons then be clear about it. If they believe the pandemic can be managed differently to NPHET recommendations then be prepared to answer questions on it.

If it was the other way around and they imposed harsher restrictions than recommended I would say the same too.

rob316 · 26-11-2020 03:29PM

Its hardly surprising NPHET shot down the opening of hospitality. Government determined to open them though so will thankfully be ignoring their "concern".

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:30PM

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

If they open the restaurants and "Dry" pubs before Christmas there'll be a flood of Christmas parties booked, it's practically guaranteed we lockdown again in January. We may have to anyway with Christmas spikes from Christmas festivities in general. It's foolish to think the Gov aren't aware of this as Varadkar already hinted at locking down again in January.

Now this may be preferable to the Gov, Vintners and the public as they'll get in a bit of a sesh with the vaccine news and let off a bit of steam after this 6 week lockdown ends. Plus everyone in a normal year typically do less socially in January and some have a tradition of having a "Dry" January anyway so it may make more sense to splurge in December and lock up again in January as it won't be too different overall to a normal year.

NPHET were threatening another lockdown in January even before this one was brought in so yes that's almost guaranteed

https://extra.ie/2020/10/21/news/irish-news/government-fears-nphet-post-christmas-lockdown

Opening up and closing again at least gives businesses the opportunity to make some money

You can't if you're closed in the possibly the most important month of the year

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:33PM

rob316 wrote: »

Its hardly surprising NPHET shot down the opening of hospitality. Government determined to open them though so will thankfully be ignoring their "concern".

That's true

NPHET would keep things shut forever if they could

We were painfully slow to open up the first time and NPHET would keep things shut for much longer if they could

I still wouldn't be sure of the government going against Tony & Co

Senior hurling time for Martin & this government

Benimar · 26-11-2020 03:39PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

NPHET were threatening another lockdown in January even before this one was brought in so yes that's almost guaranteed

https://extra.ie/2020/10/21/news/irish-news/government-fears-nphet-post-christmas-lockdown

Opening up and closing again at least gives businesses the opportunity to make some money

You can't if you're closed in the possibly the most important month of the year

What part of 'Government fear NPHET will want a lockdown' equates to NPHET threatening a lockdown?

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 03:42PM

Irish examiner, think they were the first to report on the planned reopenings but they seem to have been fairly spot on so far.

"Sources speaking to this newspaper said they have not yet received the letter from Dr Holohan, which is customary after each Nphet meeting, but there is a clear divergence of opinion between the Government and Nphet as what to do.

“Nphet see things solely through the prism of public health. We have to look at societal, economic and other considerations. It is no surprise Nphet are concerned about pubs and restaurants, we expected that. But they advise and government decides. Opening up is a risk, a calculated risk but one worth taking,” a senior Government source said.

eagle eye · 26-11-2020 03:45PM

Benimar wrote:

What part of 'Government fear NPHET will want a lockdown' equates to NPHET threatening a lockdown?

You can't teach these people. He's been told many, many times that NPHET is an advisory group who make recommendations to the government and don't make any decisions but he still goes on posting his ideas about NPHET.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:46PM

Benimar wrote: »

What part of 'Government fear NPHET will want a lockdown' equates to NPHET threatening a lockdown?

"However, the Irish Times has reported that NPHET has flagged the probability that the easing of restrictions over Christmas will result in another spike in COVID-19 case numbers, prompting a further request for lockdown measures once 2021 has begun."

Now that's logical tbf

Royale with Cheese · 26-11-2020 03:47PM

Can't believe we're back to this shít in the papers again. You'd think this time round both parties would want to keep things under wraps and just have a decision made that is clearly communicated to the public, instead we get days of rumours in the papers about various different ways things might play out... again.

hmmm · 26-11-2020 03:49PM

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

Now this may be preferable to the Gov, Vintners and the public as they'll get in a bit of a sesh with the vaccine news and let off a bit of steam after this 6 week lockdown ends. Plus everyone in a normal year typically do less socially in January and some have a tradition of having a "Dry" January anyway so it may make more sense to splurge in December and lock up again in January as it won't be too different overall to a normal year.

Who is thinking about those of who won't be "having a bit of of sesh"? We have to endure months of extended lockdowns because a relatively small group of people want to socialise & party during December? Along with who knows how much extra deaths and suffering?

Reopening hospitality in December is pretty much guaranteeing a need for another lockdown in the new year and the government knows it. Are the vintners that important, that allowing them to reopen for a few weeks is potentially worth an extra few months of Level 5?

Pay off the vintners, I've no problem with this it's not their fault we have a dangerous virus circulating. Tell them to remain closed until vaccine distribution is in full swing.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:49PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Irish examiner, think they were the first to report on the planned reopenings but they seem to have been fairly spot on so far.

"Sources speaking to this newspaper said they have not yet received the letter from Dr Holohan, which is customary after each Nphet meeting, but there is a clear divergence of opinion between the Government and Nphet as what to do.

“Nphet see things solely through the prism of public health. We have to look at societal, economic and other considerations. It is no surprise Nphet are concerned about pubs and restaurants, we expected that. But they advise and government decides. Opening up is a risk, a calculated risk but one worth taking,” a senior Government source said.

"It has also been confirmed that travel restrictions are to be eased for two weeks around Christmas, allowing people to travel anywhere in the country to enable them to spend Christmas with their families."

Somebody better tell Leo that lol

is_that_so · 26-11-2020 03:50PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Can't believe we're back to this shít in the papers again. You'd think this time round both parties would want to keep things under wraps and just have a decision made that is clearly communicated to the public, instead we get days of rumours in the papers about various different ways things might play out... again.

TBH as long as it's a government decision it doesn't matter how it comes out. Most of it is obvious, it's just a question of what, when.

MerlinSouthDub · 26-11-2020 03:52PM

My take on reopening the pubs/restaurants is that they should wait until January. What is the point in opening them and then having to close them a month later. If we wait a bit longer, we might get no Covid spike over Christmas and then the pubs/restaurants might get a good run at it in the new year. They might even never have to close again, if it lines up with the vaccine getting rolled out.

FionnK86 · 26-11-2020 03:52PM

I love leaks, information out quicker and usually correct.

Having a big announcement is just the boys wanting to be on telly and feel great. Just get it out there straight away so we can get on with it. Obsolete format.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 03:55PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

My take on reopening the pubs/restaurants is that they should wait until January. What is the point in opening them and then having to close them a month later. If we wait a bit longer, we might get no Covid spike over Christmas and then the pubs/restaurants might get a good run at it in the new year. They might even never have to close again, if it lines up with the vaccine getting rolled out.

There is logic to that suggestion but many might never open again as they will have missed a vital trading month and lots of people don't have money after Christmas for January which is why it's usually so quiet

Just like last time the longer they are left closed the harder it is to reopen them again as well

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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