Where to invest 65k

hblock21 · 22-11-2020 8:33am #1

I have 65k sitting in a deposit account with AIB currently earning 0.02%.

I want to move it.

I do not want risk.

Where would you move it to?

Thanks

Jim2007 · 22-11-2020 9:22am

A higher return always means more risk... So if you don't want risk then you leave it where it is.

twowheelsonly · 22-11-2020 9:35am

If you invested in Bitcoin 12 months ago you'd now be worth roughly 150k.
If you invested in Norwegian Cruise Lines 12 months ago you'd now be worth roughly 20k

12 months ago Bitcoin was a dead duck while NCL would have been considered a steady investment.

My point being, as Jim2007 said, that there is never any guarantees, there will always be risk.
If anything, spread it out but again, Pharma and Tech seem to be the way to go right now, but again, the same rules apply - risk.

Zenify · 22-11-2020 9:53am

Prizebonds

Browney7 · 23-11-2020 4:58pm

hblock21 wrote: »

I have 65k sitting in a deposit account with AIB currently earning 0.02%.

I want to move it.

I do not want risk.

Where would you move it to?

Thanks

What does risk mean to you? I view every investment as being potentially high risk - if you stick to cash, there is a very high risk your money depreciates due to inflation with a very low risk of capital loss. If you plough into a basket of equities there is a high risk your investment will be worth less at some point during your investment with a much lower risk of your capital not keeping pace with inflation in the long run.

cronos · 23-11-2020 5:51pm

A global index fund. It will have risk but it's well diversified. No one want's to lose their money but if it's an investment there will always be a level of risk.

It's important to know how long you are willing to wait to get it back. If you need the money on hand then your choices are very different to someone who's willing to wait 5 years.

john9876 · 23-11-2020 5:54pm

Surely you can get 1% fixed rate bonds for a year, not a lot but safe.

Stark · 23-11-2020 5:56pm

john9876 wrote: »

Surely you can get 1% fixed rate bonds for a year, not a lot but safe.

Where do you get these? Any bonds I've looked at have had similar rates of return to deposit accounts.

john9876 · 23-11-2020 6:10pm

Stark wrote: »

Where do you get these? Any bonds I've looked at have had similar rates of return to deposit accounts.

https://www.money.co.uk/savings-accounts/fixed-rate-bonds.htm

I'm in the UK so not sure if you can get these, the best was .85% , obviously rates have dropped recently.

littlevillage · 23-11-2020 6:51pm

hblock21 wrote: »

I have 65k sitting in a deposit account with AIB currently earning 0.02%.

I want to move it.

I do not want risk.

Where would you move it to?

Thanks

Pay off any borrowings (Mortgage, credit card etc.).... If you still have a lump sum left... Maybe buy a State savings bond or leave it where it is.

https://www.statesavings.ie/our-products

hblock21 · 23-11-2020 7:35pm

littlevillage wrote: »

Pay off any borrowings (Mortgage, credit card etc.).... If you still have a lump sum left... Maybe buy a State savings bond or leave it where it is.

https://www.statesavings.ie/our-products

Thanks for all the comments.
No mortgage or anything to pay off.
I already lost a sizable amount about 8 years ago in stocks and another fortune a couple of years ago so lets just say I'd be protective of my money going forward!
I have given notice to draw down the savings and will most likely dump them into statesavings or prize bonds until I decide on something else...

tobeme2020 · 23-11-2020 8:04pm

I could have 50k by next week sitting in the bank as cash and have had similar thoughts on what to do with it other than leaving it in the bank account. I don't have large outgoings and by next year, the balance will be higher. Having cash in the bank is worrying for me in this climate and now I would be happy to invest. Bitcoin is to volitile for me but I'm still considering it. Maybe even short term using 5k for 5 years to see where it goes from there. Is gold still considered a good investment. I could afford to put 5kinto this. Even if I invested 20k this year how realistic would it be to have 100k in 10years with not to risky investments.

Stark · 23-11-2020 8:13pm

Generally speaking stocks are a good idea as long as your portfolio is well diversified and you're not worried about needing immediate access to the money during a downturn.

tobeme2020 wrote:

Even if I invested 20k this year how realistic would it be to have 100k in 10years with not to risky investments.

I'm not an expert but you'd be lucky to double your investment in 10 years without significant risk imo. Something like 27k would be a more realistic target I would imagine (3% growth per annum compounded).

Jim2007 · 23-11-2020 9:15pm

tobeme2020 wrote: »

I could have 50k by next week sitting in the bank as cash and have had similar thoughts on what to do with it other than leaving it in the bank account. I don't have large outgoings and by next year, the balance will be higher. Having cash in the bank is worrying for me in this climate and now I would be happy to invest. Bitcoin is to volitile for me but I'm still considering it. Maybe even short term using 5k for 5 years to see where it goes from there. Is gold still considered a good investment. I could afford to put 5kinto this.

Leave your money where it is and spend about a year learning about investing... you post is a good indication that you need to learn a lot before risking money on your knowledge.

Even if I invested 20k this year how realistic would it be to have 100k in 10years with not to risky investments.

No, not even close. The general consensus is that gross annualized return for stocks over the long haul is about 7% -8%. A skilled value investor might achieve an annualized return of around 10% - 13% over the long haul, so such an investor might manage say around 70K in 10 years all going well.

tobeme2020 · 24-11-2020 11:55am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Leave your money where it is and spend about a year learning about investing... you post is a good indication that you need to learn a lot before risking money on your knowledge.

No, not even close. The general consensus is that gross annualized return for stocks over the long haul is about 7% -8%. A skilled value investor might achieve an annualized return of around 10% - 13% over the long haul, so such an investor might manage say around 70K in 10 years all going well.

Where is the best place to learn and read up on investing. Books, videos etc..

breadmonster · 26-11-2020 9:59am

Would something like picking 13 investments of 5k each work best spread over time, that way you avoid the panic of losing money as your getting the average price over a few years.

Amount to invest = 65k
5k total for each investment
Invest $500 in each every 3 months
Total invested every 3 months is 6500

or you could pick 7 investments with more added

kapisko1PL · 26-11-2020 10:31am

As with every investment, there comes the risk. Bigger rewards usually mean more risk but neither of the two are guaranteed.

If I was you and didn't know what to do, I would invest it into ETFs. Perhaps have a look at Vanguard SP 500 index fund. The SP500 index tracks the performance of the biggest 500 companies on the stock market and moves up and down accordingly. It will definitely yield better results in the long term than the mere 0.02% in your deposit account. And they also pay quarterly dividends of around 2.5%.

This means that every year you are most likely to get an additional return of 2.5% on your investment from dividends alone. This translates into 1,650 euro per year or an extra passive income of 135 euro a month. If you reinvest your dividends, you're very likely to make a fortune in about 10 years.

That's my two cents.

KaneToad · 26-11-2020 10:54am

tobeme2020 wrote: »

Even if I invested 20k this year how realistic would it be to have 100k in 10years with not to risky investments.

Very unrealistic, I would think.

p to the e · 26-11-2020 11:06am

That's quite a chunk of change so I'd spend a bit of money and contact an independent financial adviser to discuss your options.

gooseygander · 26-11-2020 11:07am

If you don’t want risk and want to take money from bank the only option is state savings. 10 year = 16% tax free is best available if you can afford to tie it up. If you know nothing about stocks or investments speak to an advisor from Irish life or equivalent and they will determine some good options for you based on your appetite for risk. Whatever you do don’t leave it festering in bank earning nothing.

Void Ceremony · 26-11-2020 11:09am

Surely a pension fund or similar?

phantasmagoria · 26-11-2020 11:22am

Any investments in the stock market at this moment in time - you are essentially buying at the top which seems, from a logical point of view, a bad place to get in.

Now if you think that a share is undervalued and the fundamentals underpinning that thought process are sound, then provided you are not in a mad rush to get out, a sensible person would sell to take advantage of CGT allowance each year when possible, roping in wives/husbands buying options etc. to maximize returns by selling the amount that suits.

Have you looked to recoup previous years losses as a write off if you have an asset to dispose of?

If you have children, you can gift a child 3k a year and he/she will get the benefit of it without prohibitive tax when you eventually shuffle off this mortal coil.

Have you money in a credit union and particularly one that pays off an amount if you die?

Given your lack of desire for risk which is completely understandable, state savings are probably your best option.

I mentioned the others benefitting options as some don't consider the same.

As for reading books about investment, I think most of the authors if they were savvy and capable would not be writing books giving away easy money grabs! If anybody knows of any such book, I will seek it out and read it myself and follow it religiously.

Remember Eddie Hobbs was the man at one stage in Ireland. Sean Quinn fell from grace. The guys who looked like they knew what they were doing were gambling.

Investment is such that you should be taking something off the table, not getting greedy and following the data.

Risk 5% in the mad schemes if you think there is a chance that it may pay off. Try and protect the 95%.

Your investment options are only restricted by the limits of your imagination or what you can learn along the way.

In summary 5 years savings certificates...
The caveat being are the government going to raid personal savings to pay for current events? Will the state default and leave you up **** creek? On the bright side, everybody will be in the same position and then you will wish you had spent it on guns!

hblock21 · 26-11-2020 11:59am

If one wanted to invest through Irish Life. Is it better to go directly with them or through the bank i.e. AIB
https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/personal/docs/our-products/investments/portfolio-invest/aib-portfolio-invest-guide.pdf

thefridge2006 · 26-11-2020 1:18pm

kapisko1PL wrote: »

As with every investment, there comes the risk. Bigger rewards usually mean more risk but neither of the two are guaranteed.

If I was you and didn't know what to do, I would invest it into ETFs. Perhaps have a look at Vanguard SP 500 index fund. The SP500 index tracks the performance of the biggest 500 companies on the stock market and moves up and down accordingly. It will definitely yield better results in the long term than the mere 0.02% in your deposit account. And they also pay quarterly dividends of around 2.5%.

This means that every year you are most likely to get an additional return of 2.5% on your investment from dividends alone. This translates into 1,650 euro per year or an extra passive income of 135 euro a month. If you reinvest your dividends, you're very likely to make a fortune in about 10 years.

That's my two cents.

I thought we (as Europeans) couldn't buy the S&P500 anymore? has this changed?

namloc1980 · 26-11-2020 1:21pm

thefridge2006 wrote: »

I thought we (as Europeans) couldn't buy the S&P500 anymore? has this changed?

You can buy European based ETFs which track the S&P500 etc.

thefridge2006 · 26-11-2020 1:52pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

You can buy European based ETFs which track the S&P500 etc.

great thanks, whats the difference between them and the Vangaurd?

DO you know the names of a few?

jon1981 · 26-11-2020 1:56pm

OP the first question and most important question is what's your horizon for accessing the money? That will dictate your investment strategy.

The longer the horizon typically the less risk because you can ride out dips in the market. Also don't drop it all in at once.

namloc1980 · 26-11-2020 1:57pm

thefridge2006 wrote: »

great thanks, whats the difference between them and the Vangaurd?

DO you know the names of a few?

Check out this website:
https://www.justetf.com/en/find-etf.html

Here's the Vanguard S&P 500 ETF:

https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?groupField=index&ic=Vanguard&from=search&isin=IE00B3XXRP09

kapisko1PL · 26-11-2020 2:48pm

thefridge2006 wrote: »

I thought we (as Europeans) couldn't buy the S&P500 anymore? has this changed?

If you have a look at VUSD (Vanguard SP500) on a platform such as T212 or degeiro. I have few "shares" of it.

DanT88 · 26-11-2020 4:18pm

hblock21 wrote: »

I have 65k sitting in a deposit account with AIB currently earning 0.02%.

I want to move it.

I do not want risk.

Where would you move it to?

Thanks

It's best to start investing in the financial market ! The risk you will not avoid . Big money requires risk, it is 100%. Choose the exchange you want to trade on, study the instruments of earning, types of analysis and practice will help you. Errors will happen anyway.
The main thing is not to waste time on crypto, it's cheating.

hblock21 · 26-11-2020 4:36pm

DanT88 wrote: »

It's best to start investing in the financial market ! The risk you will not avoid . Big money requires risk, it is 100%. Choose the exchange you want to trade on, study the instruments of earning, types of analysis and practice will help you. Errors will happen anyway.
The main thing is not to waste time on crypto, it's cheating.

Where do you invest? Websites?

kapisko1PL · 26-11-2020 4:42pm

Personally I do it on Trading 212. Invest 60 euro a week. There's no fees too which is great. If you'd like I can get you a referral link and we'll both get free share. I'm not affiliated with them btw so don't take this as an advertisement. I simply use them and find them good.

hblock21 · 26-11-2020 5:18pm

kapisko1PL wrote: »

Personally I do it on Trading 212. Invest 60 euro a week. There's no fees too which is great. If you'd like I can get you a referral link and we'll both get free share. I'm not affiliated with them btw so don't take this as an advertisement. I simply use them and find them good.

How do they make their money if there's no fees? What's the catch?

namloc1980 · 26-11-2020 6:09pm

hblock21 wrote: »

How do they make their money if there's no fees? What's the catch?

Spread and they have a CFD platform where they clean up.

kapisko1PL · 26-11-2020 6:13pm

hblock21 wrote: »

How do they make their money if there's no fees? What's the catch?

The difference between a buy and a sell price, spread, CFDs. There's way to make money without "visible" fees. But if you're going to buy and hold for few years then it will not matter at all because the differences are so small you won't notice it.

gooseygander · 26-11-2020 10:08pm

hblock21 wrote: »

If one wanted to invest through Irish Life. Is it better to go directly with them or through the bank i.e. AIB
https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/personal/docs/our-products/investments/portfolio-invest/aib-portfolio-invest-guide.pdf

Not sure but I dealt with an Irish life broker/financial adviser and found him very good with clear honest advice. Pm me if you want and I can forward on his details if you want them.

Bob24 · 27-11-2020 10:20am

hblock21 wrote: »

I have 65k sitting in a deposit account with AIB currently earning 0.02%.

I want to move it.

I do not want risk.

Where would you move it to?

Thanks

You need to think a a few thinks before looking at your options:

- when you say you want no risk, do you really mean risk or do you mean volatility? (there is a risk with holding your cash at the bank: the bank could go bust or the currency could have issues; however there is zero price volatility in that currency which might be what you mean by “no risk”)
- what is you time horizon? If 6 months, then yes you don’t want volatility, just keep your cash. If 10 years, your wealth will be significantly eroded by inflation and negative real interest rates if you keep it in cash, you should really accept some volatility in exchange for inflation protection (maybe with a mix of safe stocks, inflation protected bonds, cash deposits, and gold which would be less volatile than just stocks and should give you average returns higher than inflation).

pearcider · 27-11-2020 12:41pm

Invest in companies that you like, in particular with good management. Listen to their presentations and read their press releases. You need to do your research. I also think your investments should agree with your macro view of the world and where we are heading. For example if you think electric cars are the future you should invest in Tesla. Likewise crypto or green energy.

Personally I believe gold will rise greatly over the next few years as it is a way to short poor fiscal and monetary policy and general economic mismanagement by governments. So most of my investments are in commodities in particular gold miners. Regarding dividends theres lots of companies out there that pay 2-3% but the taxes kill you so I wouldn’t make it the be all and end all.

AndrewJRenko · 27-11-2020 12:52pm

hblock21 wrote: »

Thanks for all the comments.
No mortgage or anything to pay off.
I already lost a sizable amount about 8 years ago in stocks and another fortune a couple of years ago so lets just say I'd be protective of my money going forward!...

Sounds like you directly invested in some particular stocks? That's a high risk option. You need to diversify (different companies, different market sectors, different parts of the world) to reduce risk. A managed fund is the most practical way of doing this.

Jim2007 · 04-12-2020 4:03pm

olvias wrote: »

I would invest in property but anyway it's better to consult with specialists to reduce the risks.

The OP does not want risk and you'd put him in a very high risk asset class...

AndrewJRenko · 04-12-2020 8:57pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

The OP does not want risk and you'd put him in a very high risk asset class...

A high risk asset class AND he's going to have to leverage his capital x3 or x4 (borrowing to invest) thus increasing the risk even further.

Static M.e. · 04-12-2020 10:04pm

@OP

I would put all of into the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating. ISIN IE00BK5BQT80

I think it has the right amount of risk vs reward and doesn't require luck or skill to pick the right stocks.

littlevillage · 05-12-2020 8:58am

Static M.e. wrote: »

@OP

I would put all of into the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating. ISIN IE00BK5BQT80

I think it has the right amount of risk vs reward and doesn't require luck or skill to pick the right stocks.

Except that its at an All time high at the moment. Not saying it can't go higher, but growth from this point onwards is far from assured

Jim2007 · 05-12-2020 12:04pm

Static M.e. wrote: »

@OP

I would put all of into the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD) Accumulating. ISIN IE00BK5BQT80

I think it has the right amount of risk vs reward and doesn't require luck or skill to pick the right stocks.

And what is the "amount of risk vs reward"???

Jim2007 · 05-12-2020 12:06pm

littlevillage wrote: »

Except that its at an All time high at the moment. Not saying it can't go higher, but growth from this point onwards is far from assured

Well first of all indexes have been climbing for over a hundred years.... and if you are going to put money into indexes, then you should be "dollar cost averaging", so it should not really matter very much.

Where to invest 65k

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