General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Fitz* · 19-11-2020 12:12PM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think the better question is who would you rather win.

Ireland win the Euros/World Cup.

Your team win the PL/CL.

Be Ireland all day long for me.

Imagine the responses would be 50:50.

I think Ireland winning the Euros / World Cup is a once in a lifetime event. The other is not.

Father Hernandez · 19-11-2020 12:14PM

Fitz* wrote: »

I think Ireland winning the Euros / World Cup is a once in a lifetime event. The other is not.

Fair point. Depends on who you follow in English football alright.

I'm a United fan and it's not looking too promising... :pac:

joeguevara · 19-11-2020 12:18PM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think the better question is who would you rather win.

Ireland win the Euros/World Cup.

Your team win the PL/CL.

Be Ireland all day long for me.

Imagine the responses would be 50:50.

Interesting question. It would be a very tough one but I would have to go with Ireland.

I have a mate and he says that he would prefer to see Mayo win the All Ireland than Ireland win the WC. I was just floored when he said it. But I suppose I have seen Tipp/Donegal win the AI good few times.

DM_7 · 19-11-2020 12:19PM

CSF wrote: »

I mean every team in the league is actively competing to get that kind of schedule next year.

Everyone wants those extra games. That’s where the money is. You can’t complain about it afterwards.

They Clubs can and will complain. They are right to be worried about their ability to compete at the same level in all games.

I don't really feel sympathy though. Football has a lot of accepted and acceptable unfairness built into the system.

The extra games are tough to deal with if players are injured and games are closer together but those competitions are the reasons sides who regularly benefit from European Competition can add more quality players to the team who was already good enough to earn European Qualification the previous season.

Liverpool could sign players like Thiago and Jota, United add Telles, Van De Beek, Cavani, Chelsea can add 5 players from Champions League qualified teams. Arsenal can pay the buy out clause and wages to attract a starting player from Atletico Madrid.

Of the 7 European Teams:

Leicester City are top of the league.

Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, City have lost one game each.

Arsenal and United are all over the place, which is not really different to recent seasons.

ERG89 · 19-11-2020 12:24PM

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think the better question is who would you rather win.

Ireland win the Euros/World Cup.

Your team win the PL/CL.

Be Ireland all day long for me.

Imagine the responses would be 50:50.

I'd take Ireland winning it too but when we can't even qualify for those tournaments now so its pure fantasy.
I do dread the international breaks these days as Ireland haven't been this bad in a very long time, have absolutely no confidence & have the worst squad of players we've had in 40-50 years, I'm not a historian but its significantly worse than anything I recall in my lifetime.

I can't watch international football other than Ireland and feel invested in it. Most big countries are not great now, the managerial level is closer to punditry gigs than top club jobs and when a tournament comes around the players are noticeably fatigued come the knockouts which just produces a drop off in quality. A lot of players aren't particularly invested in it either, they won't admit to it publicly but playing for your country now isn't important anymore.

8-10 · 19-11-2020 12:34PM

Collie D wrote: »

I'd happily see Man United relegated in exchange for an Irish spot at the Euros.

Me too :pac:

Father Hernandez · 19-11-2020 12:36PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Interesting question. It would be a very tough one but I would have to go with Ireland.

I have a mate and he says that he would prefer to see Mayo win the All Ireland than Ireland win the WC. I was just floored when he said it. But I suppose I have seen Tipp/Donegal win the AI good few times.

Yeah, it very much depends on where you're from and where your interests lie I suppose. I'm a Dub and a United fan so have seen both do it.

10 years ago I'd have said Ireland to win something and Dublin a very close second but that's changed now.

ERG89 wrote: »

I'd take Ireland winning it too but when we can't even qualify for those tournaments now so its pure fantasy.
I do dread the international breaks these days as Ireland haven't been this bad in a very long time, have absolutely no confidence & have the worst squad of players we've had in 40-50 years, I'm not a historian but its significantly worse than anything I recall in my lifetime.

I can't watch international football other than Ireland and feel invested in it. Most big countries are not great now, the managerial level is closer to punditry gigs than top club jobs and when a tournament comes around the players are noticeably fatigued come the knockouts which just produces a drop off in quality. A lot of players aren't particularly invested in it either, they won't admit to it publicly but playing for your country now isn't important anymore.

I'd tend to agree but again all where you're from. For a lot of players, you can see how proud they are to represent their country but not so sure it's the same for others.

If you asked kids who they'd rather play for, their favourite team or their country, most likely the club they follow.

Doesn't have the same lure unfortunately which is a pity and I say that as someone who regularly attended Irish games. Very difficult to polish a turd but it wouldn't put me off going. I fear it might for the younger generation though.

fyfe79 · 19-11-2020 12:55PM

ERG89 wrote: »

I'd take Ireland winning it too but when we can't even qualify for those tournaments now so its pure fantasy.
I do dread the international breaks these days as Ireland haven't been this bad in a very long time, have absolutely no confidence & have the worst squad of players we've had in 40-50 years, I'm not a historian but its significantly worse than anything I recall in my lifetime.

I can't watch international football other than Ireland and feel invested in it. Most big countries are not great now, the managerial level is closer to punditry gigs than top club jobs and when a tournament comes around the players are noticeably fatigued come the knockouts which just produces a drop off in quality. A lot of players aren't particularly invested in it either, they won't admit to it publicly but playing for your country now isn't important anymore.

I'd agree with that - I think it's become taboo you admit you're not that invested in your national side. Players these days are based all over the world, there are fewer national sides with the vast majority of their players playing in that country.

The world itself is very open (2020 pandemic excepted!), with cheap flights as well as the advent and rise of the internet opening doors everywhere. People aren't as nationalistic as they once were, they're finding common ground instead with people from all over the world on issues which are important to them, rather than just where they were born.

19-11-2020 01:02PM

fyfe79 wrote: »

I'd agree with that - I think it's become taboo you admit you're not that invested in your national side. Players these days are based all over the world, there are fewer national sides with the vast majority of their players playing in that country.

The world itself is very open (2020 pandemic excepted!), with cheap flights as well as the advent and rise of the internet opening doors everywhere. People aren't as nationalistic as they once were, they're finding common ground instead with people from all over the world on issues which are important to them, rather than just where they were born.

I get those who put an Irish club before country. It's that whole GAA identify with your parish, county or even region idea.

But those who put an English club before the Irish team? That's not "aren't as nationalistic as years ago" or "not that invested in the national side". That's just...contemptible.

Luckycharms_74 · 19-11-2020 01:18PM

Just saw that "Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola officially signs a contract extension with the club until the summer of 2023"
Surely he/owners would be disappointed if he doesn't deliver the CL by then

19-11-2020 01:18PM

Playing at a World Cup is the pinnicle for a lot of players. I would say the vast majority of players love togging out for their national team. Their club team is just a job for most of them. Some exceptions might be players that have a local connection to a club team, and will always put club first.

8-10 · 19-11-2020 01:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

But those who put an English club before the Irish team? That's not "aren't as nationalistic as years ago" or "not that invested in the national side". That's just...contemptible.

Depends on to what level you think sports is entertainment versus representing your nationality.

I'd say each to their own. There's too much sport out there for everyone to follow all of the time so you follow what you like to watch.

I'll watch every Irish soccer and rugby game for example but I'll happily watch Liverpool more than our other teams like our women's hockey team, our cricket team or international rules even if we're playing well and winning in those sports

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-11-2020 02:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I get those who put an Irish club before country. It's that whole GAA identify with your parish, county or even region idea.

But those who put an English club before the Irish team? That's not "aren't as nationalistic as years ago" or "not that invested in the national side". That's just...contemptible.

Bollox

That's someone making a choice for themselves based on their own experiences, influences and perceptions as opposed to blindly and ignorantly following something they had no control ove just because someone said they should.

The national team, I believe, haven't scored a goal in six games and the average goal count is 1.0 in ther games. This does not make for an atrractive way of spending a couple of hours.

(And no, I'm not a good-weather fan either, I've never really been all that bothered about something I'm "told" I should like for no reason)

"Ignore all the evidence of you eyes and your ears, and believe only what we tell you..."

CSF · 19-11-2020 02:21PM

Fitz* wrote: »

They are not though. The European schedule is played at double the pace this season.

Every other season, bar this, the European group stage games are played over a much longer time frame. There is either a 2 week or 3 week gap between the group stage games. So that means that for the majority of the 3 months that the group stages are being played for, clubs have free midweeks to recover.

That is not happening this season. Instead it is a constant cycle of games on the weekend and midweek because the season is being squashed into a shorter period of time.

The period of time of to compete the group stage & league games around it in a normal season in 91 days. This season it is 58 days. A full month less.

I know the Champions League is quicker this year. It creates issues for sure, they’re welcome issues though that the other teams would love to have. So those other teams aren’t that likely to feel any pity.

CSF · 19-11-2020 02:22PM

DM_7 wrote: »

They Clubs can and will complain. They are right to be worried about their ability to compete at the same level in all games.

I don't really feel sympathy though. Football has a lot of accepted and acceptable unfairness built into the system.

The extra games are tough to deal with if players are injured and games are closer together but those competitions are the reasons sides who regularly benefit from European Competition can add more quality players to the team who was already good enough to earn European Qualification the previous season.

Liverpool could sign players like Thiago and Jota, United add Telles, Van De Beek, Cavani, Chelsea can add 5 players from Champions League qualified teams. Arsenal can pay the buy out clause and wages to attract a starting player from Atletico Madrid.

Of the 7 European Teams:

Leicester City are top of the league.

Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, City have lost one game each.

Arsenal and United are all over the place, which is not really different to recent seasons.

No, I get the complaints like. It’s the expecting that the other clubs will be ok with changing to help them out that I understand less.

I completely understand them asking, it’s the people on here who think they should be saying yes that confuses me.

19-11-2020 02:53PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Bollox

That's someone making a choice for themselves based on their own experiences, influences and perceptions as opposed to blindly and ignorantly following something they had no control ove just because someone said they should.

Ummmm, are you not kinda missing the whole point of nationalism?

Like, my experience is that the football in Spain may be better...but I am still more invested in my national side.

Plus, it's nonsense to suggest that Irish fans initially select English clubs based on their personal experiences at the age of 7...their Dad or classmates say they should. Blindly following an English club foisted on you, through good and bad (and I've not seen too many change loyalties to English clubs to reflect changing "experiences, influences and perceptions") is not somehow more highbrow or worthy than sticking with your own country's team.

Shanotheslayer · 19-11-2020 03:11PM

Ireland are more likely to win the World Cup than Everton win a trophy for me

DM_7 · 19-11-2020 03:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ummmm, are you not kinda missing the whole point of nationalism?

Like, my experience is that the football in Spain may be better...but I am still more invested in my national side.

Plus, it's nonsense to suggest that Irish fans initially select English clubs based on their personal experiences at the age of 7...their Dad or classmates say they should. Blindly following an English club foisted on you, through good and bad (and I've not seen too many change loyalties to English clubs to reflect changing "experiences, influences and perceptions") is not somehow more highbrow or worthy than sticking with your own country's team.

Mod: replying to this as it is the most recent post (at time of reading the thread).

This is the Premier League Thread.

Members of this forum in general do not need to justify their personal preferences for who they support to other members. Certainly not to the extent where nationalism becomes part of the conversation and certainly not in this thread.

Please go back to discussing the thread topic.

gimli2112 · 19-11-2020 03:30PM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Ireland are more likely to win the World Cup than Everton win a trophy for me

I think in this injury hit season everything is up for grabs, you're good enough to go on a cup run and maybe heaven forbid do a Leicester. The only thing outside your grasp would be the Fair Play trophy.:D

the fact the current table backs me up is hilarious

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/GB1

Fitz* · 19-11-2020 03:46PM

15 of the 20 PL managers want to move to a 5 sub rule.

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1329448418666799105

CSF · 19-11-2020 03:56PM

Fitz* wrote: »

15 of the 20 PL managers want to move to a 5 sub rule.

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1329448418666799105

If the clubs back the managers then you may well see it happen.

Drumpot · 19-11-2020 04:56PM

Fitz* wrote: »

15 of the 20 PL managers want to move to a 5 sub rule.

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1329448418666799105

Great news for United. 2 of those can be reserved for Pogba. Bringing him on and then taking him back off when he inevitably plays crap because he is sad.

gimli2112 · 19-11-2020 04:59PM

great for Mourinho too, he loves bringing on players and then subbing them after a few minutes to destroy their confidence and make a point

ERG89 · 19-11-2020 05:50PM

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1329469492150276096?s=19

Agent Coulson · 19-11-2020 06:24PM

Messi must be on the way so.

Shanotheslayer · 20-11-2020 09:50AM

I'm surprised Pep signed.

Wuff Wuff · 20-11-2020 10:14AM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm surprised Pep signed.

when he heard there was a 16.5 Billion defence budget he thought it was for Man City not the UK government and signed

Richard Hillman · 20-11-2020 10:45AM

Re: 5 subs

Liverpool used their 3 subs 6/8 games. In 5 of those 6 games, Klopp made his last sub in the last 5 minutes (most of those in injury time).

City used their 3 subs in 2/7 games. Which is probably reflective on their poor start and he doesn't fancy the bench.

Guardiola is definitely not in a position to be arguing for 5 subs. Klopp is reserving his 3rd sub in case of injury. I'm not going to listen to either of them bang on about Player welfare when they are holding back on making subs for competive advantage.

Essentially they want to be able to start weakened teams and if it doesn't go to plan they can pile on the big name starters. It's 100% to do with competitive advantage.

Also Klopp had his team back in Pre Season training 20 days after the last game. In the last few games before the season ended and they had the title wrapped up, he was playing TAA, Gomez, Van Dijk, Robertson in pretty much every game right up until the end. Salah, Mane and Firmino were playing nearly every game too.

If they are concerned about player welfare, then rest the players. And when I say Rest the players, that doesn't mean have them in training a few time a week. Actually give them a proper rest. Otherwise all I see are managers worried about results.

8-10 · 20-11-2020 11:20AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Re: 5 subs

Liverpool used their 3 subs 6/8 games. In 5 of those 6 games, Klopp made his last sub in the last 5 minutes (most of those in injury time).

City used their 3 subs in 2/7 games. Which is probably reflective on their poor start and he doesn't fancy the bench.

15 of the managers in the 20-team league support the move, not just the 2 you mentioned

Richard Hillman · 20-11-2020 11:37AM

8-10 wrote: »

15 of the managers in the 20-team league support the move, not just the 2 you mentioned

I'm not going through every managers substitution stats.

The rest will probably be similar. Close game, doesn't fancy his bench, doesn't bother making subs.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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