US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

V8 Interceptor · 19-11-2020 01:51AM

SuperSean11 wrote: »

What makes you say that?

Like I said its tried and tested. Would you be okay with mail in voting?

uncleoswald · 19-11-2020 02:01AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Whatever about the US election, would any of you guys be comfortable with mail in voting here? I wouldn't. I think going down to the booth and posting your ballot is the safest and most tried and trusted method there is.

I've done both while living in Canada and it worked well. Security wise it seemed as secure as in person, which never seemed very thorough in either country anyway. And neither seem easy to exploit on a large scale.

Of course election security with either method should be paramount but there is a time to deal with potential security concerns, and the weeks after you lose isn't really it. If Trump had won would any of these issues be issues, would any time be spent looking at them? No of course not, this is all for show.

V8 Interceptor · 19-11-2020 02:10AM

^^
Good points there. Its just from a layman's perspective I'd imagine mail in would be more vulnerable to fraud than in person. But its interesting you say in Canada it seemed just as secure.

BonnieSituation · 19-11-2020 02:14AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

^^
Good points there. Its just from a layman's perspective I'd imagine mail in would be more vulnerable to fraud than in person. But its interesting you say in Canada it seemed just as secure.

Explain how?

I have voted in every election since I turned 18, missing only the locals and Europeans in 2014 cos I was in Canada, and I have yet to be asked for ID.

V8 Interceptor · 19-11-2020 02:21AM

They asked you for your polling card though right?

(I don't want to do too many one liners in this Forum)

MadYaker · 19-11-2020 03:23AM

I’d have no problem with mail in voting here but I don’t think it’ll ever be necessary because we don’t have one of our major political parties attempting to make as difficult for people to vote as possible.

~Rebel~ · 19-11-2020 03:31AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

True. Its incredible to me that Joe Biden of all people polled the most votes in US Presidential history. Yes there was a very big anti-Trump vote that mobilised but can that alone explain his extraordinary numbers?

Mad alright, but really when you think of how politically aware people have been forced to be this year between everything, along with the very well run grassroots campaign ("make a voting plan") run by the Dems, and then the big one of voting options.

Obviously we know all about expanded mail-in voting. But in person voting was hugely expanded too, and was available for 10+ days as well.

Covid meant they had to make it easier for people to vote. And when it's easier to do, more people do it.

MadYaker wrote: »

I’d have no problem with mail in voting here but I don’t think it’ll ever be necessary because we don’t have one of our major political parties attempting to make as difficult for people to vote as possible.

Yup, it's pretty much as easy to vote in Ireland as it would be to go drop the mail-in vote into the postbox.

V8 Interceptor · 19-11-2020 03:32AM

MadYaker wrote: »

I’d have no problem with mail in voting here but I don’t think it’ll ever be necessary because we don’t have one of our major political parties attempting to make as difficult for people to vote as possible.

I've heard people say the Republicans do that. Mind you I've also heard the Dems make mail in easy in "their" areas only.

~Rebel~ · 19-11-2020 03:45AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I've heard people say the Republicans do that. Mind you I've also heard the Dems make mail in easy in "their" areas only.

What does this mean? What made the 'dem' area of a state easier than the 'gop' area of a state?

BonnieSituation · 19-11-2020 03:45AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

They asked you for your polling card though right?

(I don't want to do too many one liners in this Forum)

I look nothing like the photo on my polling card though.

jimmycrackcorm · 19-11-2020 05:17AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Whatever about the US election, would any of you guys be comfortable with mail in voting here? I wouldn't. I think going down to the booth and posting your ballot is the safest and most tried and trusted method there is.

How is going to the booth a better option?
We already have the issue of third level students, for example, being away from their normal domicile missing out regularly on voting.

Isn't democracy most satisfied by ensuring as much as possible that people can vote as easily as possible? Mail-in votes are validated in the US via signature. Your signature is used to validate every contract you sign -from a bill pay phone to a 30-year mortgage.

So what's the objection?

V8 Interceptor · 19-11-2020 05:31AM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

What does this mean? What made the 'dem' area of a state easier than the 'gop' area of a state?

I honestly don't know. I heard them arguing about it on TV the other night re the election in Michigan. I've no doubt both parties try to get their own vote out as much as possible and use all legal shenanigans to get their demographic to cast a ballot.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I look nothing like the photo on my polling card though.

There's a photo on the polling cards? I never saw one!

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How is going to the booth a better option?
We already have the issue of third level students, for example, being away from their normal domicile missing out regularly on voting.

Isn't democracy most satisfied by ensuring as much as possible that people can vote as easily as possible? Mail-in votes are validated in the US via signature. Your signature is used to validate every contract you sign -from a bill pay phone to a 30-year mortgage.

So what's the objection?

Surely there's more to it than that?

MadYaker · 19-11-2020 06:09AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I've heard people say the Republicans do that. Mind you I've also heard the Dems make mail in easy in "their" areas only.

They have said it themselves, quotes from both Trump and a senior member of his campaign

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/21/trump-adviser-republicans-voter-suppression

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/30/trump-voting-republicans/%3foutputType=amp

BonnieSituation · 19-11-2020 06:17AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

There's a photo on the polling cards? I never saw one!

Eh?

No. There's not. Cmon.

VinLieger · 19-11-2020 07:03AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I've heard people say the Republicans do that. Mind you I've also heard the Dems make mail in easy in "their" areas only.

Well yes they make it easier to vote in areas they control..... they cant do anything in areas they don't. Do you think there's a problem with making it easier to vote?

I find it highly curious you seem to be equating both voter suppression with easier voting access as being nefarious political tools?

Brian? · 19-11-2020 10:09AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Whatever about the US election, would any of you guys be comfortable with mail in voting here? I wouldn't. I think going down to the booth and posting your ballot is the safest and most tried and trusted method there is.

Tell that to the hundreds of dead people who voted for Bobby Sands.

Former Coach · 19-11-2020 10:20AM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Mad alright, but really when you think of how politically aware people have been forced to be this year between everything, along with the very well run grassroots campaign ("make a voting plan") run by the Dems, and then the big one of voting options.

Obviously we know all about expanded mail-in voting. But in person voting was hugely expanded too, and was available for 10+ days as well.

Covid meant they had to make it easier for people to vote. And when it's easier to do, more people do it.

Yup, it's pretty much as easy to vote in Ireland as it would be to go drop the mail-in vote into the postbox.

And we don’t have to wait hours in a queue.......

prawnsambo · 19-11-2020 10:38AM

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I've heard people say the Republicans do that. Mind you I've also heard the Dems make mail in easy in "their" areas only.

Everyone should be making voting easier in 'their' areas. It's a constitutional right and shouldn't be restricted in any way.

jmayo · 19-11-2020 11:28AM

harr wrote: »

Will Trumps Constant wild claims on Twitter affect his running again in 4 years ? Will the GOP get sick of him and once out of the White House won’t be put for forward for re-election again.
Also why does Twitter allow him spout such wild claims without total censorship , I know they have warnings on his posts but you would imagine he would only be allowed do this for so long.

You think Twitter letting Trump continue is bad, Zuckerberg blatantly brazenly said to Senate committee the other day that Bannon is not banned from Facefook even though he called for the beheading of two public government officials, Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI director Christopher Wray.

They only removed the posts/video and Zuckerberg stated when asked about suspending Bannon "not what our policies would suggest that we should do in this case."

FFS, how fecked up is that ?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There is a certain cohort of traditional GOP voters that voted for Biden this time out , not sure it's a massive group though.

If you look at the states where Biden won, but the GOP Senator held their seats -

The % difference in those vote totals gives you a rough idea of that impact.

It's not massive , significant in terms of winning/losing and election but it's not a huge number overal I'd suggest.

You have Republicans Voters Against Trump, The Lincoln Project.
You have very hjigh profile ones like Bolton, Scaramucci, and a host of ex Republican cabinet members, officials and elected representatives.
Cindy McCain's endorsement of Biden helped him win Ariziona and probably helped seal the fate of that Trump sycophant nutjob McSally.

Check out her policies and stance on issues and how anyone would vote for her is beyond me.

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think she's decided. She's been told. She's out of a job if she goes against Trump. Same as what happened to Krebs.

She is waiting I think for the states to certify the elections so that is her excuse when Trump starts screaming down the phone.

Quin_Dub · 19-11-2020 11:39AM

jmayo wrote: »

You think Twitter letting Trump continue is bad, Zuckerberg blatantly brazenly said to Senate committee the other day that Bannon is not banned from Facefook even though he called for the beheading of two public government officials, Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI director Christopher Wray.

They only removed the posts/video and Zuckerberg stated when asked about suspending Bannon "not what our policies would suggest that we should do in this case."

FFS, how fecked up is that ?

You have Republicans Voters Against Trump, The Lincoln Project.
You have very hjigh profile ones like Bolton, Scaramucci, and a host of ex Republican cabinet members, officials and elected representatives.
Cindy McCain's endorsement of Biden helped him win Ariziona and probably helped seal the fate of that Trump sycophant nutjob McSally.

Check out her policies and stance on issues and how anyone would vote for her is beyond me.

She is waiting I think for the states to certify the elections so that is her excuse when Trump starts screaming down the phone.

Just on McSally - She surely has to be some kind of record holder.

Her personal awfulness has lost the GOP both Senate seats in Arizona - Ran for Election for an open seat and lost , gets parachuted in to McCains seat by the Governor and then gets hosed in the next election by Kelly.

Has any other Senator managed to never actually win an election?

Itssoeasy · 19-11-2020 01:23PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just on McSally - She surely has to be some kind of record holder.

Her personal awfulness has lost the GOP both Senate seats in Arizona - Ran for Election for an open seat and lost , gets parachuted in to McCains seat by the Governor and then gets hosed in the next election by Kelly.

Has any other Senator managed to never actually win an election?

Did Kelly loeffler in Georgia win her seat ?

jmayo · 19-11-2020 01:33PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just on McSally - She surely has to be some kind of record holder.

Her personal awfulness has lost the GOP both Senate seats in Arizona - Ran for Election for an open seat and lost , gets parachuted in to McCains seat by the Governor and then gets hosed in the next election by Kelly.

Has any other Senator managed to never actually win an election?

Well she did back Trump's handling of Covid.

In March she said staying home was an over reaction.
And then in May she refused to back further coronavirus relief funding. She claimed Democratic-voting states and cities had mismanaged their budgets for decades and that they shouldn't get any more aid.

She opposes same-sex marriage and abortion.

She was the first senator ever appointed to serve alongside someone to whom she initially lost an election.
Her appointment was only because governor had to fill McCain's old seat after his nominated successor Kyl resigned.

She once said she wants the federal government out of education.
She supports privatising social security and raising retirement age.

She keeps waving the flag about her being a fighter pilot and then called into question the patriotism of former astronaut and ex Navy pilot Mark Kelly just because he was involved in Chinese trade delegation.

And she used Trump style tactics by labeling him as "Counterfeit Kelly".

Dillonb3 · 19-11-2020 01:57PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Did Kelly loeffler in Georgia win her seat ?

No she was appointed to replace Senator Issakson who retired due to health issues

Carfacemandog · 19-11-2020 03:14PM

jmayo wrote: »

You think Twitter letting Trump continue is bad, Zuckerberg blatantly brazenly said to Senate committee the other day that Bannon is not banned from Facefook even though he called for the beheading of two public government officials, Dr. Anthony Fauci and FBI director Christopher Wray.

They only removed the posts/video and Zuckerberg stated when asked about suspending Bannon "not what our policies would suggest that we should do in this case."

FFS, how fecked up is that ?

Exactly.

Twitter have not yet banned Trump because frankly it is extremely difficult for them to do so prior to Jan 20th. They have however been proactive in banning extremists on both sides, and on enforcing fact checks when someone like Trump starts spouting drivel.

FB on the other hand have openly been enabling this madness and division. They've done this in a number of places to the point the Myanmar/Rohingya genocides of recent years have in part been attributed to them. They have been selling off user data to Cambridge Analytica without consent. They have played a central role in enabling foreign influence of other nations' elections (a reference beyond just Trump/Russia stuff). They have been the epicenter of anti mask/lockdown/5g lunacy, and if many far left and far right extremists in the US over the last several years, but the last 10-12 months more than ever.

I don't think Zuckerberg is pushing any particular ideology to be clear, he just wants more influence and comes over as an outright sociopathic narcissist (in silicon valley? Who would have thought! :pac: ).

Of course it won't happen, but ideally Facebook should just be shut down for good. They're a prime example of why these large social media companies need to regulate their content, and a very cautionary taken of what happens when you indulge the "free speech" brigade that actually give zero fcuks about free speech at all for anyone that isn't them.

There's no two ways about it, FB are nothing short of evil.

Foxtrol · 19-11-2020 03:40PM

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Exactly.

Twitter have not yet banned Trump because frankly it is extremely difficult for them to do so prior to Jan 20th. They have however been proactive in banning extremists on both sides, and on enforcing fact checks when someone like Trump starts spouting drivel.

FB on the other hand have openly been enabling this madness and division. They've done this in a number of places to the point the Burmese genocides of recent years have in part been attributed to them. They have been selling off user data to Cambridge Analytica without consent. They have played a central role in enabling foreign influence of other nations' elections (a reference beyond just Trump/Russia stuff). They have been the epicenter of anti mask/lockdown/5g lunacy, and if many far left and far right extremists in the US over the last several years, but the last 10-12 months more than ever.

I don't think Zuckerberg is pushing any particular ideology to be clear, he just wants more influence and comes over as an outright sociopathic narcissist (in silicon valley? Who would have thought! :pac: ).

Of course it won't happen, but ideally Facebook should just be shut down for good. They're a prime example of why these large social media companies need to regulate their content, and a very cautionary taken of what happens when you indulge the "free speech" brigade that actually give zero fcuks about free speech at all for anyone that isn't them.

There's no two ways about it, FB are nothing short of evil.

I don't think Zuckerberg has a preference regarding a particular ideology but he is very much aware of which ideology is being pushed the most of FB, just look at the top 10 most interacted with posts on daily basis. He is doing everything he can to make sure he doesn't completely alienate this group and by doing so is clearly helping to push that ideology.

Blowfish · 19-11-2020 05:46PM

So this is pretty amazingly pointing out the competence of Giuliani. Basically, the Trump campaign are withdrawing their litigation to prevent the election being certified in Michigan because they say that Wayne Co. have declined to certify the result, hence they gained the result they want. This is despite the fact that Wayne co. reversed the decision and have actually certified. The Trump campaign are claiming they won out of court....even though they lost:

https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1329443846422454275

Quin_Dub · 19-11-2020 05:52PM

Blowfish wrote: »

So this is pretty amazingly pointing out the competence of Giuliani. Basically, the Trump campaign are withdrawing their litigation to prevent the election being certified in Michigan because they say that Wayne Co. have declined to certify the result, hence they gained the result they want. This is despite the fact that Wayne co. reversed the decision and have actually certified. The Trump campaign are claiming they won out of court....even though they lost:

https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1329443846422454275

To be fair , their belief is that the request to rescind their approval that the two GOP canvassers asked for last night is legitimate (Spoiler - It's not).

So in their world , the results haven't been certified but in the world the rest of us live in , they have been certified and oddly enough there are no "backsies" allowed.

Manic Moran · 19-11-2020 06:14PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I don’t understand why the transition team for Biden and Harris don’t bring a lawsuit(seems to be a way to focus minds in America) against the director of the GSA. Forget trump and his pity party, Emily Murphy as director is ignoring the law which her predecessors have followed. It says apparent winner which under any metric joe Biden is yet she seems hell bent on trying to stay loyal to trump who we know won’t be loyal to her if history is any indication. Having just read up on her time in this job she’s not exactly getting top marks.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It’s not the point though whether Biden knows how it works it’s a legal process that has happened since 1963 since the act became law.

So I'm digging into this....

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/M-20-24.pdf
See also https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:3%20section:102%20edition:prelim)

Note the difference between what folks "may" do (which can be traditional, but not required), and what they "shall" do, which is required. Note also that the "mays" are generally "The President may (or chooses)....", which he seems disinclined to do right now. Example, under "General Duties" it says "The President shall take such actions as the President determines necessary and appropriate...."

You can't sue over that sort of language if the things you want to happen or which normally happen are not actually done.

So, which parts of the law are not being complied with by the GSA?

prawnsambo · 19-11-2020 06:17PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair , their belief is that the request to rescind their approval that the two GOP canvassers asked for last night is legitimate (Spoiler - It's not).

So in their world , the results haven't been certified but in the world the rest of us live in , they have been certified and oddly enough there are no "backsies" allowed.

Yeah. There was a deadline which passed yesterday. The certification has now gone to state level and the affidavits from the two Republican canvassers are pointless. Although apparently Trump called at least one of them directly before they tried to rescind.

Quin_Dub · 19-11-2020 06:21PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. There was a deadline which passed yesterday. The certification has now gone to state level and the affidavits from the two Republican canvassers are pointless. Although apparently Trump called at least one of them directly before they tried to rescind.

That remains a concern - Trump et al will be leaning *hard* on the two GOP seats on the state level committee to use the affidavits from the two Wayne County guys as a reason to refuse the State level certification.

Overall though , all of this is classic Trump playbook , it's not designed to win , it's designed to try to run out the clock.

US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

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