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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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  • #6932
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Heh, exactly why you lot miss the point.

    Its a huge deal. Voting needs to be trusted and transparent and honest regardless of who or what is up for election.

    Without confidence in the system from both sides, it is a empty shell exercise devoid of value or meaning.

    Well then respond to my post and stop ignoring it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115322812&postcount=6932


  • #6933
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Heh, exactly why you lot miss the point.

    Its a huge deal. Voting needs to be trusted and transparent and honest regardless of who or what is up for election.

    Without confidence in the system from both sides, it is a empty shell exercise devoid of value or meaning.

    there is confidence in the system from both sides. the states at issue are republican run. the republican leadership in those states and the homeland agency responsible for elections have no issue with the elections. But trump lies his ass off and you swallow it all. he launches case after case in court and gets laughed out every time but you still swallow everything he spews out.


  • #6934
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    And let's be honest, having never stepped in the Oval office or held any office of any note whatsoever, neither do you.


    We know it can have serious long term effects, the 9/11 commission found that the delay in transition and lack of information passed on due to the florida mess in 2000 was a contributing factor to 9/11


  • #6935
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    What.Now wrote: »
    Well if you stepped back a bit you would see that Biden is already practicing what he preaches by constantly wearing a mask.

    Its easy to have an intern punch a few lines on Twitter.

    Telling the paranoid American public, who's citizens actually maintain private armies should personal freedoms and liberty become in any way threatened whatsever by the government to "Wear a mask" is another thing.


    Well, I suppose biden will trot some socially responsible and virtuose line out "Encouraging" the american public to wear a mask when in office but it won't be an instruction and thus will be largely ignored by those who don't want to and that will be a further point of tension between the two sides and then Biden will be seen as weak and so on and so forth etc.


    Idealistic nonsense to think Biden will be much different than Trump. He will just sell it differently.


  • #6936
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there is confidence in the system from both sides. the states at issue are republican run. the republican leadership in those states and the homeland agency responsible for elections have no issue with the elections. But trump lies his ass off and you swallow it all. he launches case after case in court and gets laughed out every time but you still swallow everything he spews out.

    I don't swallow everything at all?
    Sweeping statements and absolutism seems to be quite a thing in this thread and esp when it come to Trump....

    Sometimes you have to look beyond the headlines yea?


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  • #6937
    2ndcoming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭2ndcoming


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Unfortunately for US politics, the Republicans have become entwined with Trump, as well as some ultra-conservative groups like the white nationalists, while the Democrats have become synonymous with socialists like Bernie, and hard left groups like Antifa.
    Add in the conspiracy theories about both sides and the polarisation of US politics is only getting worse.


    The Democrats should have ran a more conservative candidate, but I suppose the presidential race is more a popularity contest than about actual policy and past performance.

    Bernie isn't really a socialist, the vast majority of the things he calls for are long established and taken for granted in the rest of the developed world.

    And being Anti-fascism doesn't make you hard left (Trotsky?? Stalin??) just because Trump says so. Any more than anything else he says should be taken at face value.

    Believing in sick pay or access to healthcare is not left, it's completely normal. Believing fascism is wrong is not left, it's normal. The centreground in the US has been lobbied and bought so far to the right in the defence of billionaires wealth they're getting to the stage they think sparing any thought for your fellow man makes you Lenin. It's bizarre and they need to reset.


  • #6938
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    And let's be honest, having never stepped in the Oval office or held any office of any note whatsoever, neither do you.

    So why have all previous administrations had a month or two handover? Even W Bush, whilst they were still fighting the election in court, was given access by Clinton (Gore already had it as VP).

    So the question becomes why would all previous administrations have taken 2+ months prior to inauguration when, according to you, they don't need it?

    Now thinking back on any new job I have started, it normally takes a few weeks to get a handle on the new people I'm working with, their systems, policies, procedures. I need log-ins, access to software, company access cards, credit cards. I need to be introduced to my team, other teams, other offices. Explained the key customers, competitors, issues, areas that will soon be issues.

    Now, none of my jobs includes the lives and livelihoods of millions of people, billions of $'s.

    With COVID being the NO1 issue facing the world and the US, don't you think it would be worthwhile for Biden, and his teams, to get a handle on what is in place, what is in the air? What about the threat from Iran, where are the NK discussions, what has been set up with Putin?

    But Trump is not concerned about the fate of America, only about himself. He is putting himself above the needs to the country. He could easily give access to Biden whilst still running the cases to get the election result overturned. Had W Bush lost the election, all that would have been lost his and his teams time in planning, but the country wouldn't have suffered.

    MAGA, by purposefully and deliberately putting it in a riskier position that it needs to be. Some patriot that puts himself above the needs of the country.


  • #6939
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,028 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    The 1st pitch of childish retorts what from you.
    How about you practice what you preach?

    I doubt Biden will be practicing what he is preaching either. He'll be bound by the realities of the situation just like anyone else,

    Ok, so where's the quote from that you posted?


  • #6940
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I know you can't do a presidential handover in an afternoon. You couldn't do a project handover in that time. so yeah, you haven't a balls notion what you are talking about.

    And he won't just have an afternoon to do the handover as well you know so stop with the faux outrage and drama.

    The electoral college will confirm the result. Biden will be made President elect.
    The transition teams will have much time (months, not hrs) to do its job.

    Stop talking out of your hat just for political points. It diminishes any value your comments may have.


  • #6941
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    I don't swallow everything at all?
    Sweeping statements and absolutism seems to be quite a thing in this thread and esp when it come to Trump....

    Sometimes you have to look beyond the headlines yea?

    Of course you have. You think there is genuine doubt about the safety of the election. No basis for that doubt has been shown. No credible evidence has been proffered by Trump yet you still think there is something to it.


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  • #6942
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    4mqlk5.jpg


  • #6943
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,926 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    And he won't just have an afternoon to do the handover as well you know so stop with the faux outrage and drama.

    The electoral college will confirm the result. Biden will be made President elect.
    The transition teams will have much time (months, not hrs) to do its job.

    Stop talking out of your hat just for political points. It diminishes any value your comments may have.

    the electoral colleges votes are not counted until Jan 6th. He wont have months.

    and it was you that mentioned an afternoon. if having your nonsense thrown back at you is painful then perhaps stop writing said nonsense.


  • #6944
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,529 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Roger the cabin boy wrote:
    The 1st pitch of childish retorts what from you. How about you practice what you preach?

    Roger the cabin boy wrote:
    And let's be honest, having never stepped in the Oval office or held any office of any note whatsoever, neither do you.

    Unreal.


  • #6945
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    And he won't just have an afternoon to do the handover as well you know so stop with the faux outrage and drama.

    The electoral college will confirm the result. Biden will be made President elect.
    The transition teams will have much time (months, not hrs) to do its job.

    Stop talking out of your hat just for political points. It diminishes any value your comments may have.

    Great, you know that it can be done in 1 month, over Christmas.

    What are you basing this assessment on? Do you have a breakdown on the different tasks to be handed over and how long each of them takes?

    Have you any take on what possible disadvantage there would be in letting the presumptive President Elect start earlier? Or alternately what is the disadvantage to the country of doing so?


  • #6946
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    So why have all previous administrations had a month or two handover? Even W Bush, whilst they were still fighting the election in court, was given access by Clinton (Gore already had it as VP).

    So the question becomes why would all previous administrations have taken 2+ months prior to inauguration when, according to you, they don't need it?

    Now thinking back on any new job I have started, it normally takes a few weeks to get a handle on the new people I'm working with, their systems, policies, procedures. I need log-ins, access to software, company access cards, credit cards. I need to be introduced to my team, other teams, other offices. Explained the key customers, competitors, issues, areas that will soon be issues.

    Now, none of my jobs includes the lives and livelihoods of millions of people, billions of $'s.

    With COVID being the NO1 issue facing the world and the US, don't you think it would be worthwhile for Biden, and his teams, to get a handle on what is in place, what is in the air? What about the threat from Iran, where are the NK discussions, what has been set up with Putin?

    The election has only today ( i believe) been fully 100% called by the pollers.
    Its hardly like the POTUS team is bunkering up lol.

    Spare me the drama please.


  • #6947
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Great, you know that it can be done in 1 month, over Christmas.

    What are you basing this assessment on? Do you have a breakdown on the different tasks to be handed over and how long each of them takes?

    Do you have deep insider knowledge that transition must start NOW else its Dooooomed?


    No. Ya don't.


  • #6948
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Do you have deep insider knowledge that transition must start NOW else its Dooooomed?


    No. Ya don't.

    You claimed 1 month is fine. My evidence is that all recent transitions have taken place over a number of month, not less than 1.

    So the burden of proof is very much on you to show why previous administrations have dragded it out and where you see them being able to safely do it.

    You have not provided anything to show that you understand what is required and thus how it can be accomplished.

    I have no doubt Biden will manage to get it done, but the key question is why should he have to? What positive impact on the US is refusing to give him the normal access? Is there any other reason that Trump feels a bit butt hurt?

    Whether they need it or not, I can see no argument that it make the US better off by refusing it.


  • #6949
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the electoral colleges votes are not counted until Jan 6th. He wont have months.

    and it was you that mentioned an afternoon. if having your nonsense thrown back at you is painful then perhaps stop writing said nonsense.

    Ya, the process itself starts once all the poll the calls are finally in. (Today oddly enough) Be pedantic to suit your own argument but isn't worth much.

    Ask me again in a week or two if Trump hasn't conceded and then i will perhaps be less sympathetic to him.

    Due process be damned huh.


  • #6950
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Do you have deep insider knowledge that transition must start NOW else its Dooooomed?


    No. Ya don't.


    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/former-bush-chief-of-staff-cites-9/11-warns-about-slow-transition.html

    “The 9/11 Commission had said if there had been a longer transition and there had been cooperation, there might have been a better response, or maybe not even any attack,” the former chief of staff said. “This is very serious, so we’re calling on the president to open up the transition office, give the money out, let people start transitioning, and get ready to take the baton at January 20th at noontime, even if we don’t know the full results.”


  • #6951
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Ya, the process itself starts once all the poll the calls are finally in. (Today oddly enough) Be pedantic to suit your own argument but isn't worth much.

    Ask me again in a week or two if Trump hasn't conceded and then i will perhaps be less sympathetic to him.

    Due process be damned huh.

    What due process? What are you talking about?

    Giving access to Biden to start the transition doesn't mean that, if the election was overturned, that Biden would have to be POTUS.


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  • #6952
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    The reality of the situation is the US could likely have saved about 3/4s of those that died - around 190k and rising daily - had trump not failed so spectacularly here. He simply chose not to because work is hard.

    The irony there is that he REALLY could have used some of those largely elderly voters a few weeks ago. Georgia, Arizona and Pittsburgh are all in the top 11 states for total deaths.


  • #6953
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    You claimed 1 month is fine. My evidence is that all recent transitions have taken place over a number of month, not less than 1.

    So the burden of proof is very much on you to show why previous administrations have dragded it out and where you see them being able to safely do it.

    You have not provided anything to show that you understand what is required and thus how it can be accomplished.

    I have no doubt Biden will manage to get it done, but the key question is why should he have to? What positive impact on the US is refusing to give him the normal access? Is there any other reason that Trump feels a bit butt hurt?

    Whether they need it or not, I can see no argument that it make the US better off by refusing it.

    Its a daft argument. Both know Jack sh.t about the truth of it so lets not pretend we do.


  • #6954
    What.Now
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭What.Now


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Its easy to have an intern punch a few lines on Twitter.

    Telling the paranoid American public, who's citizens actually maintain private armies should personal freedoms and liberty become in any way threatened whatsever by the government to "Wear a mask" is another thing.


    Well, I suppose biden will trot some socially responsible and virtuose line out "Encouraging" the american public to wear a mask when in office but it won't be an instruction and thus will be largely ignored by those who don't want to and that will be a further point of tension between the two sides and then Biden will be seen as weak and so on and so forth etc.


    Idealistic nonsense to think Biden will be much different than Trump. He will just sell it differently.

    What are you talking about?

    You insinuated that Biden would not do what he preached yet he demonstrated and is constantly demonstrating that he is currently doing what he preaches.

    Do you agree?.

    If so, good we are getting places.

    You can then follow up with a different point if you so wish.

    The point I think you wish to follow up on is that it won't make any difference if he requests people to wear masks.


  • #6955
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    The reality of the situation is the US could likely have saved about 3/4s of those that died - around 190k and rising daily - had trump not failed so spectacularly here. He simply chose not to because work is hard.

    The irony there is that he REALLY could have used some of those largely elderly voters a few weeks ago. Georgia, Arizona and Pittsburgh are all in the top 11 states for total deaths.

    You really believe this?

    Christ.

    I am no trumpite (honestly) but i can't get behind stuff like this and its outrageous accusation of this ilk that make me sympathise with him to some extent.

    Just wowsers.


  • #6956
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    What.Now wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    You insinuated that Biden would not do what he preached yet he demonstrated and is constantly demonstrating that he is currently doing what he preaches.

    Do you agree?.

    If so, good we are getting places.

    You can then follow up with a different point if you so wish.

    The point I think you wish to follow up on is that it won't make any difference if he requests people to wear masks.


    Using twitter is doing something?

    I thought POTUS Twitter usage is what upsets you lot so much in the 1st place?


  • #6957
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Its a daft argument. Both know Jack sh.t about the truth of it so lets not pretend we do.

    But we do. We both know that al recent transitions have taken longer than the 1 month you seem to suggest (which is a shift from your previous position that it was not really necessary at all).

    Try to deal with some of the issues we know they will have to deal with.

    Get a heads up on the situation with PPE.
    Get a read on the current heads of departments, some of which will be retiring/moving on and need to be placed, some of which will need to be replaced.
    What departments are facing overall shortages, need reassignments from other agencies.
    What internal threats have been identified by the FBI.
    What are the ket exteral threats identified by the CIA?
    Waht areas of the county are suffering fro COVID, and need additional resources, which can be reduced?
    What allies need immediate communication, what type, with who?
    What countries pse the biggest threats?
    Which sectors or the economy need most help?
    What is happening with Crime?
    What is happening with the war on drugs?
    What are the biggest economic pressures facing the country?
    What is the state of play in terms of energy availability?
    What threats are facing the military abroad?
    What is the state of play in terms of the COVID stimulos package?
    Are there any urgent issues with nuclear facilities?
    What about public health? Has there been any breakouts in terms of water treatment etc.
    What are the key infrastructure issues and why are they still unresolved?

    Just off the top my head


  • #6958
    What.Now
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭What.Now


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Using twitter is doing something?

    I thought POTUS Twitter usage is what upsets you lot so much in the 1st place?

    What is your point about Twitter?


  • #6959
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,040 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

    Its a huge deal. Voting needs to be trusted and transparent and honest regardless of who or what is up for election.

    The idea that the last US election has been anything but trusted, transparent and honest has yet to stand up in any court where such a case has been presented. If the vote is so obviously crooked, then it would be a much easier case to make with lots of supporting evidence.


  • #6960
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    briany wrote: »
    The idea that the last US election has been anything but trusted, transparent and honest has yet to stand up in any court where such a case has been presented. If the vote is so obviously crooked, then it would be a much easier case to make with lots of supporting evidence.

    I wonder what Lindsey Graham has been up to in Georgia.


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  • #6961
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Someone is lying here but if I were a betting man I'd say Graham has pants on fire. WTF is he up to? Mr "States Rights" is interfering in State business that has nothing to do with him.

    .


This discussion has been closed.
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