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Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

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Comments

  • #212
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Give me "loads" of examples of transgenders in sports.

    I have all night.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports

    Trans men[edit]
    Kye Allums, basketball
    Schuyler Bailar, swimming
    Mack Beggs,[53] wrestling
    Harrison Browne, ice hockey
    Balian Buschbaum,[54] pole vault
    Willy De Bruijn, cycling
    Keelin Godsey, hammer throw[55]
    Zdeněk Koubek, track
    Andreas Krieger, shot put
    Patricio Manuel, boxing
    Chris Mosier, triathlon, duathlon
    Cory Oskam, ice hockey [56]
    Erik Schinegger, skiing
    Mark Weston, athletics
    Trans women[edit]
    Tifanny Abreu, volleyball
    Alessia Almeri,[57] volleyball
    Mianne Bagger, golf
    Savannah Burton
    Parinya Charoenphol, Thai boxing
    JayCee Cooper,[58] Powerlifting, Roller Derby
    Roberta Cowell, motor sports
    Yanelle Del Mar Zape,[59] Track and Field
    Athena Del Rosario, football(soccer) and beach handball [60]
    Michelle Duff
    Michelle Dumaresq
    Fallon Fox, mixed martial arts
    Natalie van Gogh, cycling
    Laurel Hubbard, weightlifting
    Veronica Ivy,[61][62] cycling
    Lauren Jeska, fell running
    Janae Kroc
    Caroline Layt,[59][63][64] Rugby League, Rugby Union and Track and Field
    Bobbi Lancaster, golf
    Samantha 'Sammy' Walker, Football (Soccer)[65]
    Kellie Maloney
    Kirsti Miller,[66] Modern Pentathlon, Aquathon and AFL
    Terri Miller, track and field (high school) [67]
    Cate McGregor, cricket
    Hannah Mouncey, handball and Australian football
    Laura Nagtegaal,[68][69] disc golf
    Renée Richards, tennis
    Jaiyah Saelua
    Britney Stinson,[70] American football, baseball
    CeCe Telfer, track and field [71]
    Andraya Yearwood, track and field (high school)
    Charlie Christina Martin, motor sports


  • #213
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    MynamesColm wrote: »
    I agree it is silliness. Surely the important thing is that the victim is treated by a doctor who is able to make the victim feel as comfortable as possible.

    And you think that’s someone that resembles the bastard who attacked her?

    Or more likely would it be someone who can understand how she might be feeling?


  • #214
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,701 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A trans woman doctor is a woman.

    And a violated woman Is free to choose her doctor. None of them actually care whether their doctor is trans or not so it's not actually going to matter

    Well no they aren't in fairness.

    As I said in the previous post people can call themselves whatever they want but their opinion on what they are shouldn't affect other people.

    Someone who was born a man is still a biological male no matter what operation they have had to change the plumbing downstairs.


  • #215
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    Given the lack of prevalence one would have to note the excessive power invested to transform laws, language, science, medicine, social provisions, sports, academic discourse, corporate ethics etc on its behalf, no?
    Menstruators. People with a cervix. Chest feeders. 2 male sex offenders in a female jail in Ireland. 100 plus Irish children already treated at Tavistock, whose practices are being subject to review and scrutiny by the UK government and media. Recent discussion re policy in Irish govt to enable even younger people to self ID without parental consent or medical oversight. And so on.

    The changes themselves are quite mild. Most stem from one change. Self ID laws.

    It's like saying "a small number of people are gay but somehow had the power to change our most fundamental legal document the Constitution. So excessive".


  • #216
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    A trans woman doctor is a woman.

    And a violated woman Is free to choose her doctor. None of them actually care whether their doctor is trans or not so it's not actually going to matter

    They do care though if their doctor is a male... given the likely alleged rapist is male....


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  • #217
    MynamesColm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 ✭MynamesColm


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Give me "loads" of examples of transgenders in sports.

    I have all night.


    Isnt this something for sports organisations to police. Don't many do this already by having limits on testosterone and such?


  • #218
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Rodin wrote: »
    They do care though if their doctor is a male... given the likely alleged rapist is male....

    Yes but it's up to rape victim to be kind.


  • #219
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    And you think that’s someone that resembles the bastard who attacked her?

    Or more likely would it be someone who can understand how she might be feeling?

    Why do you think the imaginary trans woman who assists her would look like the imaginary rapist?


  • #220
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    MynamesColm wrote: »
    Isnt this something for sports organisations to police. Don't many do this already by having limits on testosterone and such?

    Testosterone means little - after a male has gone through puberty the majority f their strength and muscle mass remains no matter what their testosterone level.


  • #221
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    MynamesColm wrote: »
    I agree it is silliness. Surely the important thing is that the victim is treated by a doctor who is able to make the victim feel as comfortable as possible.

    How about strip searching? Having had a rather peripatetic and adventurous youth I was strip searched twice on border crossings abroad. Both times by a female officer because that was my right as a woman. Should I have been denied that right? Should a male have been allowed to strip search me?


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  • #222
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Why do you think the imaginary trans woman who assists her would look like the imaginary rapist?

    Because. They. Would. Both. Be. Men.

    Can’t make it any clearer for you.


  • #223
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,885 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    To all the do-gooders on the thread.

    If a 50 year old man suddenly comes out as trans. Are you comfortable with said 50 year old man sharing a changing room with your young daughter in lets say a swimming pool?

    How would you feel if a 16 year old boy suddenly came out as "trans" and was competing against your daughter in rugby/soccer/martial arts or whatever.

    Because that's what youre calling for.


  • #224
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Rodin wrote: »
    They do care though if their doctor is a male... given the likely alleged rapist is male....

    How do you know?

    How do you know they would not be ok with a transwoman.

    Would they be ok with a transwoman who had no stereotypically masculine facial features?

    Would they be bothered by a cis woman doctor who did have stereotypically masculine facial features?

    It's amazing how TERFs will use rape vcitims as ammo in their debates. They have no regard for the victims as individuals.


  • #225
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    why are we now talking about all these wonderful what if scenarios?

    What is a rape victim gets to the examination and meets with a person of the opposite sex and then what if they have a nurse who was biologically male but then they were presenting as female and what if the police person didn't want to identify as either gender and what is the person who raped in the first place was the girl from the prodigy video?

    Is that it?


  • #226
    MynamesColm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 ✭MynamesColm


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    And you think that’s someone that resembles the bastard who attacked her?

    Or more likely would it be someone who can understand how she might be feeling?


    Oh, the hypothetical victim I was thinking of preferred to have a doctor she was familiar and comfortable with.


    You prefer her doctor was a cold fingered woman who didn't believe she had been raped? Crikey!


  • #227
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    To all the do-gooders on the thread.

    If a 50 year old man suddenly comes out as trans. Are you comfortable with said 50 year old man sharing a changing room with your young daughter in lets say a swimming pool?

    How would you feel if a 16 year old boy suddenly came out as "trans" and was competing against your daughter in rugby/soccer/martial arts or whatever.

    Because that's what youre calling for.

    and what if and what if and what if..

    and what is a do-gooder anyway - just a bunch of people talking on the internet like?


  • #228
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,593 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    How about strip searching? Having had a rather peripatetic and adventurous youth I was strip searched twice on border crossings abroad. Both times by a female officer because that was my right as a woman. Should I have been denied that right? Should a male have been allowed to strip search me?

    How would you know if it was a trans person searching you? Would you ask woman with stereotypically masculine facial features to confirm she is a cis woman?


  • #229
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    To all the do-gooders on the thread.

    If a 50 year old man suddenly comes out as trans. Are you comfortable with said 50 year old man sharing a changing room with your young daughter in lets say a swimming pool?

    How would you feel if a 16 year old boy suddenly came out as "trans" and was competing against your daughter in rugby/soccer/martial arts or whatever.

    Because that's what youre calling for.

    No and no. Definitely a big no to the first one.

    I’m not in the best shape and feel a little self conscious in the changing rooms. No way am I getting my kit off if there’s a hairy arsed bloke in there.


  • #230
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    MynamesColm wrote: »
    Isnt this something for sports organisations to police. Don't many do this already by having limits on testosterone and such?

    I honestly don't feel it is that much of an issue either. Yes there will be examples of transgenders playing sports, but that does not mean they need their own Olympics just yet either? There simply is not that many at a professional level, granted in a world of 8 billion people we have managed to secure a list of 50 persons from a webpage, and thanks btw Cartman, that was helpful.

    But given that there are so few actual transgendered professional athletes I would most definitely leave it with each sporting body to deal with.


  • #231
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,885 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    km991148 wrote: »
    and what if and what if and what if..

    and what is a do-gooder anyway - just a bunch of people talking on the internet like?

    Thanks now try answer the questions instead of deflecting.


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  • #232
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How do you know?

    How do you know they would not be ok with a transwoman.

    A woman who been raped by man will absolutely not want an man carrying out a rape examination on them regardless how that man self identifies as .

    It's actually quite disgusting then to go back to calling people terfs ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #233
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How do you know?

    How do you know they would not be ok with a transwoman.

    Would they be ok with a transwoman who had no stereotypically masculine facial features?

    Would they be bothered by a cis woman doctor who did have stereotypically masculine facial features?

    It's amazing how TERFs will use rape vcitims as ammo in their debates. They have no regard for the victims as individuals.

    Maybe they would be fine with a male doctor. Of course. Maybe they would be fine with a transwoman doctor.

    Many women have no preference with doctors.


  • #234
    Sittingpretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    How do you know?

    How do you know they would not be ok with a transwoman.

    Would they be ok with a transwoman who had no stereotypically masculine facial features?

    Would they be bothered by a cis woman doctor who did have stereotypically masculine facial features?

    It's amazing how TERFs will use rape vcitims as ammo in their debates. They have no regard for the victims as individuals.

    You REALLY hate women.

    Worth the ban/warning.


  • #235
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    What I meant is that your general tone is insinuating that non transgenders are somewhat different to transgenders and that coincidentally they have a universal right to decide on their future? I am not just talking about toilet facilities here either by the way, I think there are bigger issues at hand, particularly where it comes to gender identification and a humans' rights.

    Am I misinterpreting your tone in this instance? Please advise.

    Ah, that you think the whole issue of female spaces isn’t a big issue. :) Must be nice to be in the position of thinking that their erosion isn’t that important. That’s exactly what I’m concerned about. What “bigger issues” are you talking about? Please, elaborate.


  • #236
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Definition of bad faith argument. You asked for a list of trans athletes. You were given one. Jesus.

    I am just trying to establish the argument?

    A list of 50 or so transgendered athletes is very very small beans considering the discussion at hand.


  • #237
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I honestly don't feel it is that much of an issue either. Yes there will be examples of transgenders playing sports, but that does not mean they need their own Olympics just yet either? There simply is not that many at a professional level, granted in a world of 8 billion people we have managed to secure a list of 50 persons from a webpage, and thanks btw Cartman, that was helpful.

    But given that there are so few actual transgendered professional athletes I would most definitely leave it with each sporting body to deal with.

    Transgender activists got probably the greatest woman athlete ever - and massive gay and lesbian advocate - Martina Navratilova kicked off a governing body.

    Don’t tell me they have no sway in elite sport.


  • #238
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Thanks now try answer the questions instead of deflecting.

    Your questing is ridiculous - but wait - let me go and ask my imaginary 16 year old daughter how she feels about using the imaginary swimming pool that doesn't have a communal changing room. And then I will put my imaginary feelings on it.

    Can you give me more details about this 50 year old? Are we talking convicted sex offender or just some nice old lady who used to be a man?

    That's not deflection, that's calling out made up stuff. How can you expect anyone to take this seriously?


  • #239
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am just trying to establish the argument?

    A list of 50 or so transgendered athletes is very very small beans considering the discussion at hand.

    You asked for a list.
    You got a list.

    Now you've a problem with the list.


  • #240
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Ah, that you think the whole issue of female spaces isn’t a big issue. :) Must be nice to be in the position of thinking that their erosion isn’t that important. That’s exactly what I’m concerned about. What “bigger issues” are you talking about? Please, elaborate.

    The fact that you refuse to admit that transgenders are entitled to equal rights for starters?


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  • #241
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am just trying to establish the argument?

    A list of 50 or so transgendered athletes is very very small beans considering the discussion at hand.

    what percentage of the general population ever become notable athletes ? less than 0.1% ?

    how many trans athletes would you need for it to be a 'fair example'
    those goal posts are going to fall apart if you shift them anymore.


This discussion has been closed.
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