Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:06PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We're not living with sweet f*ck all, we're all sitting at home and the majority of things are closed. Not sure what your definition of 'living' is, but that certainly isn't the majority's.

It’s living, it’s being alive... yes our enjoyment of life has and is curtailed, especially of a social nature, that bit it sucks. But such is life, for now. Loads of stuff people can be getting on with...

Eod100 · 16-11-2020 01:07PM

Wonder will companies just do a few % better than their previous competitor? :pac: Great news though. Light at end of this awful tunnel

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-fridge-temperature-trial-b1723591.html

This is pretty handy for tracking numbers of vaccines;

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

ACitizenErased · 16-11-2020 01:08PM

Strumms wrote: »

It’s living, it’s being alive... yes our enjoyment of life has and is curtailed, especially of a social nature, that bit it sucks. But such is life, for now. Loads of stuff people can be getting on with...

Yeah, no, that's not what life is.

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:09PM

MOR316 wrote: »

I have literally seen no one downplaying it at all.

I've seen people not agreeing with certain restrictions.

Where have people downplayed the virus?

People are effectively downplaying it by suggesting pubs, golf courses/clubs and a tonne of other social and sporting activities can and should resume.

froog · 16-11-2020 01:09PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah, no, that's not what life is.

You want the virus to just go away with zero impact on your life. That's not possible.

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:09PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah, no, that's not what life is.

It is in the middle of a pandemic sunshine, it is.

Cluedo Monopoly · 16-11-2020 01:10PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Moderna suggesting 94.5% effectiveness, wow.

I don't believe a word of their 'effectiveness' or the other crowd that claimed 90%. The devil is in the detail and the sample numbers. They have a race to outdo each other now which means they will probably cover up adverse reactions. A race to the bottom.

Vaccine efficacy- % reduction in disease incidence in a vaccinated group compared to an unvaccinated group under optimal conditions (eg RCT)

Vaccine effectiveness- ability of vaccine to prevent outcomes of interest in the “real world”

The reason less people are dying from this disease is because the treatment is better and the death reporting has improved (died of covid v died with covid).
I mean both drug treatment (antivirals and anti-inflammatories) and physical treatment. We know a huge amount more and continue to learn.

MOR316 · 16-11-2020 01:11PM

Strumms wrote: »

People are effectively downplaying it by suggesting pubs, golf courses/clubs and a tonne of other social and sporting activities can and should resume.

And to a certain extent, yes they can! Not fully obviously but, to a certain extent!

The GAA is doing their own thing. Bars and Restaurants were perfectly fine before the latest restrictions. The Masters went ahead at the weekend.

You don't have to open these things fully like in 2019 for society to safely enjoy them

prunudo · 16-11-2020 01:11PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

So in other words, we should let it rip through the population? At what stage do you reckon we should start denying people hospital treatment?

No not at all, where did I say let it rip.

Derek Zoolander · 16-11-2020 01:13PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Did you Mr Zoolander? If you did fair play but I don't think you understand it.

I did - 18% of the sample had been hospitalised - so straight away i don't believe its a representative sample..

second - no control group in place...

interesting no doubt but in these studies we also need to consider the behavioural bias in terms of who will sign up to them. it would be great if we truely got some random studies in this space..

one could also view the pandemic as an opportunity to really invest and focus on people's health on an ongoing basis from now on. I agree with a lot of the recommendations that ongoing monitoring will need to be considered... I would argue that ongoing monitoring of your health is something that should be considered regardless...

i know that i make sure i go for detailed health checks every other year and i would be considered young and low risk,,,

hmmm · 16-11-2020 01:13PM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I don't believe a word of their 'effectiveness' or the other crowd that claimed 90%.

The stats are monitored by an independent board for trials. The companies don't know what the effectiveness is until the board unblinds the trials.

There were 90 cases in the Moderna placebo group, and only 5 in the vaccinated group. The vaccine can be stored in an ordinary freezer for 30 days. The only side effects seen are pain at the injection site, and after the second doses headaches, muscle pain and fatigue.

spookwoman · 16-11-2020 01:14PM

People going into meltdown because the pubs might close..... only in Ireland.

growleaves · 16-11-2020 01:14PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Complain away about missing out on things, this is not what I am giving out about. I am not arguing that it’s wrong for people to be fed up. I am not saying there is anything at all wrong with people being desperate for things to go back to normal or even just wanting to be able to go back to pubs. I want to go back to playing tennis and going to the cinema. I find at times the walls are closing in and while I understand why we have these restrictions it doesn’t make it much easier. But, in the absence of a fully proven alternative, I believe these draconian Measurses are necessary and a more prudent approach is best for the time being.

This too shall pass.

But these measures *aren't* fully proven. The main thing we know about the measures is that they are so contrary to human nature as to be next to impossible.

When the measures fail on their own terms, excuses are made with blame meted out to third parties scattershot, and then the measures are extended for another round.

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:16PM

MOR316 wrote: »

And to a certain extent, yes they can! Not fully obviously but, to a certain extent!

The GAA is doing their own thing. Bars and Restaurants were perfectly fine before the latest restrictions. The Masters went ahead at the weekend.

You don't have to open these things fully like in 2019 for society to safely enjoy them

When you give ‘some’ people an inch, they take a mile... therein lies the problem...

If O’Malleys bar down the road are doing everything by the book..great

But Kelly’s and O’Riordans are not... we don’t have the resources to audit or police so the ‘industry’ gets closed down... based on widespread non compliance, too much of a risk.

bazermc · 16-11-2020 01:17PM

What exactly is a Groovy Hipster?????

caveat emptor · 16-11-2020 01:17PM

Nice graphic showing the different crossovers.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.14.20212555v1.full.pdf

ACitizenErased · 16-11-2020 01:19PM

Who's melting down about pubs? All that's happening on here is meltdown that pubs are doing takeaways.

ACitizenErased · 16-11-2020 01:19PM

Leilani Proud Hockey wrote: »

pubs,restaurants,cafes. all in danger of going bang the longer level 5 reigns . If its not level 2 come Dec 1 local businesses are in massive trouble and this is fact.
Meltdown is warranted.

Economy means nothing to these people. Economics isn't a strong point.

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:20PM

Leilani Proud Hockey wrote: »

pubs,restaurants,cafes. all in danger of going bang the longer level 5 reigns . If its not level 2 come Dec 1 local businesses are in massive trouble and this is fact.
Meltdown is warranted.

Better they go to the wall, then more people going to a grave.

ACitizenErased · 16-11-2020 01:22PM

Strumms wrote: »

Better they go to the wall, then more people going to a grave.

Ah jaysus

16-11-2020 01:23PM

Strumms wrote: »

People are effectively downplaying it by suggesting pubs, golf courses/clubs and a tonne of other social and sporting activities can and should resume.

If you think Covid's gonna get you at the golf course you've lost your mind.

Clearly your risk appetite is zero. Its selfish to expect everyone to curtail their lives to make you feel safer.

hynesie08 · 16-11-2020 01:24PM

Strumms wrote: »

Better they go to the wall, then more people going to a grave.

Cause if 100s of thousands lose their jobs homes and businesses, there would be no rise in excess deaths through other means........

Ignorance or stupidity???

Plumbthedepths · 16-11-2020 01:24PM

Strumms wrote: »

Better they go to the wall, then more people going to a grave.

Are you familiar with economics and the relationship to a healthy functioning society?

growleaves · 16-11-2020 01:25PM

Strumms wrote: »

When you give ‘some’ people an inch, they take a mile... therein lies the problem...

Yes. That's why I have opposed these restrictions from mid-March.

We gave an inch to people who wanted to artificially enforce a simulated hypochondria among the healthy to 'flatten the curve' for a little while and they have taken 100 miles, creating unlimited, indefinite rolling lockdowns and making health statistics the governing principle of all our lives.

Now they're toying with the idea of cancelling Christmas (or 'limiting' it).

Drumpot · 16-11-2020 01:26PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Disagree.

As I have stated numerous times in previous COVID threads, I love going for walks along the coast in Dublin and Wicklow. I go and buy small cans of beer, have a sit down somewhere and just embrace the sea air.

You play Tennis you say? I'm sure you love going and practicing your serve, backhand etc. Be it with a machine who launches the balls or with someone else, more than 2 metres away from you.

There is literally no explanation, no sense and no reason as to why either of us currently can't do those things. None of those things present a risk at all! Stopping us from doing them is not necessary at all

I actually agree about the Tennis and individual activities that have been banned. They are effectively "victims" of a blunt tool being used at the moment. Where we differ is that I just accept it. I accept there is a crisis right now and some decisions being made are out of ease and partially out of figuring out how to manage the situation. Not everything makes sense because nobody has all the right answers right now.

We aren't in full control of the virus. I see regularly in here people expecting perfection from NEPHET who some act like they should have all the answers. They only point out what NEPHET has gotten wrong and I do not see too many of them correct themselves when NEPHET get things right. War is chaos, pandemic management is trying to put some order on chaos to our normal routine. In both cases , human behaviors and motives make it difficult to manage.

I have read books about human psychology as I find it fascinating. One example of particular interest is when a massive avalanche in a Welsh school killed a load of school children in the 60s. There are no apparent issues with depression or mass suicides in this town and they didn't need a load of therapists to go to that town and council people after the events. Then compare that with recent school shootings (for example) in the USA where there is councilors and therapists all over the victims and their families who apparently NEED this help.

What people think/believe they need and what they want can quite often get mixed up. What we need right now is to make sure we manage this spread the best possible way we can. Opening pubs is not a priority, nor should it be. People wanting to congregate is ok, but people doing it is not ok just because they are longing for it. Opening up pubs because people cant help themselves or act responsibly for a few months would be a sad indictment of those people. They can pretend otherwise and come up with some excuses as to why they "need" to socialize in this exact manner, but the fact is that nobody needs the pubs to open. Nobody needs to go drinking with friends, desperately wanting to do this is different from thinking you need to do this.

Of course people are suffering mentally. This is a crisis, we all crave "normalcy" during a crisis. I hadn't enjoyed the cinema as much as I have in decades then when it opened back up after lockdown. This is just a moment/period in our lives and its looking more like being a period we can look back on by the end of next year. If this is the worst crisis we suffer in our lives, we will be lucky.

The HorsesMouth · 16-11-2020 01:30PM

Strumms wrote: »

Better they go to the wall, then more people going to a grave.

You have no idea how the economy works if that's what you think.

Why do you think the government doesn't spend it's entire health budget on funding for expensive medicines for the likes of cystic fibrosis then? You would save every single person with cystic fibrosis from dying yet you wouldn't have functioning maternity care for example.

It's a balance..and it has always been that way.

GazzaL · 16-11-2020 01:31PM

Can't wait to go for a few pints up in Belfast with my buddy who just got over COVID. He's feeling 100% again now.

Strumms · 16-11-2020 01:32PM

AdamD wrote: »

If you think Covid's gonna get you at the golf course you've lost your mind.

Clearly your risk appetite is zero. Its selfish to expect everyone to curtail their lives to make you feel safer.

No, but the problem lies surrounding the social side of golf... golf industry won’t care, they’ll have bars, functions, four-balls all up and running before you can take a breadth.

My risk appetite ? Yep, is zero pretty much...

I do expect everybody to curtail their lives yes. It’s not selfish, we are in the middle of a pandemic... the selfish are the ones not adhering to restrictions and risking their health , that of others, pressuring the health services, it’s staff, their families, all because they have wants that involve not playing their part to ensure the non spread of covid.

ACitizenErased · 16-11-2020 01:33PM

Strumms wrote: »

No, but the problem lies surrounding the social side of golf... golf industry won’t care, they’ll have bars, functions, four-balls all up and running before you can take a breadth.

My risk appetite ? Yep, is zero pretty much...

I do expect everybody to curtail their lives yes. It’s not selfish, we are in the middle of a pandemic... the selfish are the ones not adhering to restrictions and risking their health , that of others, pressuring the health services, it’s staff, their families, all because they have wants that involve not playing their part to ensure the non spread of covid.

Every age group is decreasing except older people, I'd love to see you criticise them. Doubt that'll happen though.

growleaves · 16-11-2020 01:37PM

Strumms wrote: »

No, but the problem lies surrounding the social side of golf... golf industry won’t care, they’ll have bars, functions, four-balls all up and running before you can take a breadth.

If you ban bars from opening but allow golf courses to open then how will the golf industry have bars opening up?

'Lockdown is a blunt instrument' is the spoofer's mantra.

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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