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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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Comments

  • #3392
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    polesheep wrote: »
    My apologies, I wasn't precise. What you said was, "Anti-vaxxers would put the health service under pressure as covid would still be circulating and therefore mean we can't get back to any sort of normality seeing as we wouldn't have hospital capacity, therefore require restrictions." Does this not imply that if anti-vaxxers and those who prefer to wait don't take the vaccine then the health service will come under pressure? Hence my reply that if the vulnerable are vaccinated then we will not see that kind of pressure on the health service.

    I assure you I wasn't trying to twist things around.

    And again please do not quote words i never said. My post did not make reference to anti vaxxers so please do not put that in quotes.

    What I said was having large numbers of the population outside the vulnerable groupings unvacinated could still put strain on the health system, that isn't actually up for debate its just a fact as has been pointed out numerous times.

    70% + take up will be required.


  • #3393
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    Is that an actual fact, or just an unsubstantiated statement?

    An unsubstantiated statement, one of many made in the last 24hrs by said poster


  • #3394
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    And again please do not quote words i never said. My post did not make reference to anti vaxxers so please do not put that in quotes.

    What I said was having large numbers of the population outside the vulnerable groupings unvacinated could still put strain on the health system, that isn't actually up for debate its just a fact as has been pointed out numerous times.

    70% + take up will be required.

    This is your post and the post you were responding to:

    Originally Posted by GT89 View Post
    How exactly will anti vaxxers hold anyone back? Get the vaccine you are safe and not gonna get covid. Who exactly are anti vaxxers putting at risk? Other anti vaxxers who don't get the vaccine?

    Your response.
    "Is this an actual question, you can't be serious surely?
    They put the health service under pressure as covid would still be circulating and therefore mean we can't get back to any sort of normality seeing as we wouldn't have hospital capacity, therefore require restrictions."


    The word 'They' in your post is a clear reference to the anti-vaxxers mentioned in the post you were responding to. It's right there.

    On the basis of the stats, it is very much up for debate as to whether or not the hospitals would come under strain due to Covid.


  • #3395
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I would always have some reservations about any new drug/vaccine that comes on the market. There have been some tragic occurrences in the past where some unanticipated effect of a drug comes to light long after its certification. There is also a possibility of a flaw in the manufacturing or storage process. In the USA, in particular, there is acute awareness of the tragedy of the Cutter Incident where a batch of defective polio vaccine was given to 140,000 people and 40,000 of them developed polio as a result.

    There is also something suspicious about the way Pfizer released their phase 3 trial results before the trial was actually completed and without releasing the relevant supporting data. It looks like they were trying to gain a market advantage on their competitors and it also yielded a handsome windfall profit for the CEO who sold 60% of his shares on the same day as the results were released and after the share price shot up, (just a coincidence I suppose).


    So at what point do you trust a treatment/vaccine? one year after approval? two years? ten years? I really think the experts know more about when a drug is safe to administer to the population than you do. Sure there have been mistakes, but not very many when you look at the big picture.
    Does you approach apply to other aspects of life? Have you ever flown in a plane? at what point after the manufacturers designed, manufactured, got approval for the aircraft, did you deem it safe to fly in? bearing in mind that there have been multiple plane crashes in the past.


    Yeah the share sale does look bad on the surface but if you actually did a bit more investigation you would see that he filed to sell a percentage of his shares if the stock hit a certain price. The sale was triggered by the stocks hitting that price, it was not a case of him ringing up some guy straight after the announcement and yelling "SELL", he filed the request back in August. It makes you suspicious, fair enough...I just see a bit of personal profit taking. Certainly does not make me question their vaccine data.
    polesheep wrote: »
    Good post, but be prepared for an attack. Some people don't think you should be permitted to question these things or show any sign of caution.

    Just because you think it is a good post we should all accept that and move on, even if we disagree. That's some Trump-like logic there.


  • #3396
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    polesheep wrote: »
    We'll only know what the vaccines can deliver when they are brought to the market.

    I never said "Many people are saying it", so please don't put words in my mouth.

    Your last sentence is just fundamentally wrong or will you willingly line up for the Chinese or Russian vaccine?

    Sure, we'll have to wait and see what will be available once there's more approvals. It's just that I really don't believe there will be lots of resistance to a vaccine outside the "anti-vaxx" crowd (don't really like the term, but is there a better one?).

    I thought "many people are wary of taking a vaccine" (not a direct quote) meant the same as "many people are saying it", but apologies if you meant something else.

    I wouldn't be taking any vaccine right now, because there are none approved in the EU. If they approved the Chinese or the Russian vaccine in the EU, and they were the ones rolled out by the HSE, then I would be interested in taking them - but I don't think they'll become the top vaccine options here.


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  • #3397
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1327584434653196288


  • #3398
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Sconsey wrote: »
    So at what point do you trust a treatment/vaccine? one year after approval? two years? ten years? I really think the experts know more about when a drug is safe to administer to the population than you do. Sure there have been mistakes, but not very many when you look at the big picture.
    Does you approach apply to other aspects of life? Have you ever flown in a plane? at what point after the manufacturers designed, manufactured, got approval for the aircraft, did you deem it safe to fly in? bearing in mind that there have been multiple plane crashes in the past.


    Yeah the share sale does look bad on the surface but if you actually did a bit more investigation you would see that he filed to sell a percentage of his shares if the stock hit a certain price. The sale was triggered by the stocks hitting that price, it was not a case of him ringing up some guy straight after the announcement and yelling "SELL", he filed the request back in August. It makes you suspicious, fair enough...I just see a bit of personal profit taking. Certainly does not make me question their vaccine data.



    Just because you think it is a good post we should all accept that and move on, even if we disagree. That's some Trump-like logic there.

    I take it that's a question? If so, no, I don't, which makes your Trump reference redundant except for the fact that it was meant to associate me with him despite me not having referenced him.


  • #3399
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Sure, we'll have to wait and see what will be available once there's more approvals. It's just that I really don't believe there will be lots of resistance to a vaccine outside the "anti-vaxx" crowd (don't really like the term, but is there a better one?).

    I thought "many people are wary of taking a vaccine" (not a direct quote) meant the same as "many people are saying it", but apologies if you meant something else.

    I wouldn't be taking any vaccine right now, because there are none approved in the EU. If they approved the Chinese or the Russian vaccine in the EU, and they were the ones rolled out by the HSE, then I would be interested in taking them - but I don't think they'll become the top vaccine options here.

    Thanks for the measured response. Heads are getting hot in here.


  • #3400
    petes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,382 ✭✭✭petes


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Sure, we'll have to wait and see what will be available once there's more approvals. It's just that I really don't believe there will be lots of resistance to a vaccine outside the "anti-vaxx" crowd (don't really like the term, but is there a better one?).

    I thought "many people are wary of taking a vaccine" (not a direct quote) meant the same as "many people are saying it", but apologies if you meant something else.

    I wouldn't be taking any vaccine right now, because there are none approved in the EU. If they approved the Chinese or the Russian vaccine in the EU, and they were the ones rolled out by the HSE, then I would be interested in taking them - but I don't think they'll become the top vaccine options here.

    Why would you be interested in taking the Chinese or Russian vaccine? Is that ahead of any others and if so why?


  • #3401
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Private hospitals wont be taking Covid positive patients , as if they would risk their business.

    If there's enough demand and money to be made they will


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  • #3402
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    polesheep wrote: »
    Good post, but be prepared for an attack. Some people don't think you should be permitted to question these things or show any sign of caution.
    I take it that's a question? If so, no, I don't, which makes your Trump reference redundant except for the fact that it was meant to associate me with him despite me not having referenced him.

    You're trying to frame responses that disagree with him as an attack. Why is that? Your point of view = good. Their point of view = an attack.


  • #3403
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Will I be the first in the queue for a vaccine, no. Will I ever get a vaccine, not sure. I'm in a low risk group and seeing people I know come through the virus I would take my chances.
    I do wonder about people's blind faith in big business to have our backs, I'd perfer to see a longer testing period take place, particularly any side effects it may have on pregnancy. I want to get back to some shape of normality as much as the next person but I wouldn't be rushing into taking a vaccine to make it so.


  • #3404
    MD1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Better late than never, tonights HSE Operations report.

    251 covid patients in hospital, down 21.
    33 in ICU, down 5
    23 on ventilators, no change
    0 ICU deaths

    5 cases diagnosed in hospitals in the 24hrs from 8pm - 8pm

    did you wait up all night for this lol?


  • #3405
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    MD1990 wrote: »
    did you wait up all night for this lol?

    What's so funny?


  • #3406
    giveitholly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    MD1990 wrote: »
    did you wait up all night for this lol?

    Did I miss a joke or something?


  • #3407
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    MD1990 wrote: »
    did you wait up all night for this lol?


    How is that relevant?:confused:


  • #3408
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Sconsey wrote: »
    You're trying to frame responses that disagree with him as an attack. Why is that? Your point of view = good. Their point of view = an attack.

    No, I suggested that he be prepared for an attack. That's not the same thing as trying to frame responses.


  • #3409
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    This why I suspect so many countries made masks mandatory. Think about it if they can make masks mandatory to go into a shop or public transport they make vaccines mandatory. Everyone who get's the vaccine will get a qr code to scan at the entrance to supermarkets, buses, public buildings, ticket barriers in train stations and all public buildings.

    Don't have this qr code and go into these places either be denied entry or be in breach of the law if the establishment allows you in anyway like some do not wearing masks in places where it's required. Some countries the vaccine will be mandatory to go outside the door I suspect like the way in some countries masks are also mandatory on the street.

    That is why it is mandatory to wear a mask and not just reccomended or advisory.


  • #3410
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,086 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    GT89 wrote: »
    This why I suspect so many countries made masks mandatory. Think about it if they can make masks mandatory to go into a shop or public transport they make vaccines mandatory. Everyone who get's the vaccine will get a qr code to scan at the entrance to supermarkets, buses, public buildings, ticket barriers in train stations and all public buildings.

    Don't have this qr code and go into these places either be denied entry or be in breach of the law if the establishment allows you in anyway like some do not wearing masks in places where it's required. Some countries the vaccine will be mandatory to go outside the door I suspect like the way in some countries masks are also mandatory on the street.

    That is why it is mandatory to wear a mask and not just reccomended or advisory.

    So much conspiracy.....


  • #3411
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Sconsey wrote: »
    You're trying to frame responses that disagree with him as an attack. Why is that? Your point of view = good. Their point of view = an attack.

    I assume that I am the ‘him’ that you are referring to. I don’t regard any counter argument as an attack. I was referring to the need for extreme caution regarding any new drug or vaccine. This is why trials normally take place over a long period of time to ensure that no long term effects emerge.
    These vaccines have been only been in existence for a few months and they are using a completely new technology. There is absolutely no previous manufacturing experience of mass production of this type of vaccine.
    Having said that, I hope that the vaccines succeed and that no adverse incidents occur either in the manufacturing/distribution or with the vaccines themselves.
    I am enthusiastically pro vaccines but I am uneasy about the haste involved with this one.


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  • #3412
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    GT89 wrote: »
    Some countries the vaccine will be mandatory to go outside the door I suspect like the way in some countries masks are also mandatory on the street.

    That is why it is mandatory to wear a mask and not just reccomended or advisory.
    This is all just conspiracy theory nonsense. No-one is asking for "mandatory vaccinations", you won't be hauled in by the police to get a jab.

    Down the line if businesses, countries or people don't want to do business with unvaccinated people that'll be their decision to make. For a group who keep going on about rights and how concerned you are about restrictions, you seem to think you are the only ones who have rights and also seem to think that businesses have an obligation to serve you. People refusing to wear masks have been thrown off planes and rightly so, because the rest of their passengers don't want to sit alongside people who are putting them at risk.


  • #3413
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Cork2021 wrote: »
    It’s just beggars belief that some people think level 5 can just keep going on and on until we all get vaccinated or COVID burns out. We’d be in a depression not a recession. Just imagine the impact on people’s lives from losing their job or business...... not worth bearing thinking about. It’s bleak

    The restrictions need to redesigned for workability and effectiveness.

    We have a very blunt instrument at the moment.


  • #3414
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    hmmm wrote: »
    This is all just conspiracy theory nonsense. No-one is asking for "mandatory vaccinations", you won't be hauled in by the police to get a jab.

    Down the line if businesses, countries or people don't want to do business with unvaccinated people that'll be their decision to make. For a group who keep going on about rights and how concerned you are about restrictions, you seem to think you are the only ones who have rights and also seem to think that businesses have an obligation to serve you. People refusing to wear masks have been thrown off planes and rightly so, because the rest of their passengers don't want to sit alongside people who are putting them at risk.

    But mandatory mask laws are not being made by businesses they are being made by governments. Also why are countries like Spain, France and certain US states requiring citizens to wear masks at all times outdoors not just in shops, on public transport etc but outdoors.

    Also whilst businesses are allowed refuse people they are not allowed to discriminate, right?


  • #3415
    petes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,382 ✭✭✭petes


    GT89 wrote: »
    But mandatory mask laws are not being made by businesses they are being made by governments. Also why are countries like Spain, France and certain US states requiring citizens to wear masks at all times outdoors not just in shops, on public transport etc but outdoors.

    Why do you think some places are requiring masks at all times, is it because of spiralling infection rates by any chance.

    Or is it a precursor to some mad conspiracy theory you have? If that's the case there's a forum for that.


  • #3416
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    GT89 wrote: »
    But mandatory mask laws are not being made by businesses they are being made by governments. Also why are countries like Spain, France and certain US states requiring citizens to wear masks at all times outdoors not just in shops, on public transport etc but outdoors.

    Also whilst businesses are allowed refuse people they are not allowed to discriminate, right?

    Countries with more mandatory masks have higher figures :)


  • #3417
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    wadacrack wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1327584434653196288

    I think people need to remember this, our timing was key. In Canada, they celebrated Thanksgiving back on October 12th and their cases shot up, two weeks on from that holiday it was double the number. If we were posting 1,000 cases a day, in early December it is inevitable that we would follow a similar if not worse trajectory following Christmas and New Years celebration.

    The USA could be in an even worse situation following Thanksgiving celebrations at end of November.

    https://time.com/5910635/thanksgiving-covid-19/


  • #3418
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Countries with more mandatory masks have higher figures :)

    To counter that, places in the US are reporting higher hospitalization rates in communities where there are no mandatory mask orders.


  • #3419
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    To counter that, places in the US are reporting higher hospitalization rates in communities where there are no mandatory mask orders.

    Ahh yeah, not being serious really, just facetious.


  • #3420
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,802 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    GT89 wrote: »
    This why I suspect so many countries made masks mandatory. Think about it if they can make masks mandatory to go into a shop or public transport they make vaccines mandatory. Everyone who get's the vaccine will get a qr code to scan at the entrance to supermarkets, buses, public buildings, ticket barriers in train stations and all public buildings.

    Don't have this qr code and go into these places either be denied entry or be in breach of the law if the establishment allows you in anyway like some do not wearing masks in places where it's required. Some countries the vaccine will be mandatory to go outside the door I suspect like the way in some countries masks are also mandatory on the street.

    That is why it is mandatory to wear a mask and not just reccomended or advisory.



    Mod
    Active thread here to further develop & discuss this line of thought in Conspiracy Theories. Don't derail this thread.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058112177


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  • #3421
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    I know US figures are bad but it still shocked me to see the numbers below. It suggests their case numbers are far worse than those confirmed cases numbers as likely missing many cases when have such a high positivity rate.

    Positivity rate in last 7 days

    South Dakota 58.8%
    Kansas 58.7%
    Iowa 52.6%
    Wyoming 43.4%
    Idaho 39.4%

    For comparison, Ireland’s 7 day positivity rate now 3.5%


This discussion has been closed.
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