Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

polesheep · 12-11-2020 02:18PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure.

I do think there's an aspect of "Who's gonna grab this nettle" and Leo having to do it because he's in the doghouse.

But overall there's not really anything shocking in it. The majority of people know that the sensible course of action this year is to not come home for Xmas if it can at all be avoided. Those who were going to do it anyway, will do it anyway. Those who weren't, won't.

Nobody's mind is going to be changed by Varadkar saying, "Don't book your flights home yet", but it's a negative message that was going to have to be said one way or another.

If the govt didn't say it, they would have been asked by the opposition and then would have had it to say it without being in control of the message.

I think it's another example of shockingly bad communication from the government. We have a tradition of emigration in this country and coming home for Christmas is part of our culture. Even people who have no intention of travelling will see this message and not like it one bit. I'll be surprised if it doesn't blow up in their faces.

cassette50 · 12-11-2020 02:19PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sure they don't want anyone coming back here anyway

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1326864654858072066?s=19

In these situations just ask yourself: What would Leo do?

That's right, ignore the rules when it suits you.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:19PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Any evidence of this majority you speak of. I mean there’s always dickheads but most people trying to do their bit for a normal Christmas.

If only the wilfully ignorant minority got more than a dirty look when they flour restrictions.

Christ...

I've already explained this, twice!

People, the majority ARE following the guidelines and ARE adhering to the restrictions that are in place!

However, they won't AT CHRISTMAS TIME! They will meet up with other households! They will have social contacts and it is naïve of people to think otherwise

normanoffside · 12-11-2020 02:19PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Bit of a strange message to tell tourists to come in but, Irish people with families here can't come home for Christmas

Where are they telling tourists to come in?

They are making it as complicated and costly as possible. Plus why would any tourist come here? Nothing is open and there's nothing to do. FFS, you can't even book a Hotel.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:20PM

Eod100 wrote: »

I think the bottom line is it will come down to whether pubs and restaurants are open or not. If they are people will go to them naturally, if not they obviously don't have that choice but then likely leads to people meeting in houses so seems counterproductive.

Exactly!

Either way, come Christmas time, people will meet with other households and will not keep their social contacts to a minimum!

It's laughable that people think otherwise.

Eod100 · 12-11-2020 02:21PM

cassette50 wrote: »

In these situations just ask yourself: What would Leo do?

That's right, ignore the rules when it suits you.

We should do a sweepstakes for the first politician to travel abroad during Christmas :pac:

podgeandrodge · 12-11-2020 02:22PM

paw patrol wrote: »

I was on my nightly walk last night and my mind wandered to my absolute disdain of Ryan Tubridy

I remember he had covid19 once upon a time, then i remember that Clare Byrne and Ciara Kelly and others had it too. This when there were not many cases in Ireland compared to now . But now covid positives have exploded in number but no celebrity types seem to have it anymore.

this confuses me slightly as it doesn't make sense when you think about it.

odd.

prunudo wrote: »

Rte was riddled with it in the early days so doesnt really surprise me. Ciara probably mixes in similar circles so not surprising but also north Wicklow had a lot more cases in the first wave then now.

Thierry12 wrote: »

True

Nearly every world leader has had it at this stage and I knew of no one with Covid till last week.

Those celebs and leaders must be testing themselves constantly

Let's not forget that narcissism is an underlying condition.

Jim_Hodge · 12-11-2020 02:22PM

MOR316 wrote: »

And this is the start of it...

People are not going to listen. He has only just said this and loads on social media are turning on him and saying they're gonna anyways

This is why last night I said some people in this thread don't live in the real world and are very naïve.

"I will be adhering to the restrictions and I will not be venturing outside to restaurants or pubs, like the majority and I will not meet people and I will not have any social contacts, like the majority" etc etc etc...

Good on you...But, you're not a majority! You're a very small minority, whose grasp and understanding of human behaviour, I seriously question

So for some reason, known only to yourself, those on social media who agree with your stance are a majority and those elsewhere who disagree are a minority. Thankfully we don't select governments or live our lives based on that obscure logic. Not only are those dissenting from your view a minority but you can determine the size of that perceived cohort.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:23PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Where are they telling tourists to come in?

They are making it as complicated and costly as possible. Plus why would any tourist come here? Nothing is open and there's nothing to do. FFS, you can't even book a Hotel.

I know quite a number of people who flew out and back home again in the last few weeks.

Not tourists per say but, you get the picture. You can still leave and come back and people can still come in so telling people with families not to come home is a bit much.

And no, the people that I know of who went away are not isolating :rolleyes:

JDD · 12-11-2020 02:23PM

We're having my parents and my brothers over for Christmas Day, so that's three households in total. I'm doing this whether it's a Level 2 or a Level 3. That was the point of this lockdown, that we could have a normal Christmas Day. I don't know if I'm in the minority or majority, but I don't particularly care.

I'll obviously have way less contacts than I would over a normal Christmas. No work Christmas Do. No meet ups with secondary school or college friends. No nativity play to attend. No birthday parties for the kids, or after-school classes, or last minute shopping for stocking presents. We adhered to all the rules so far, and apart from my immediate family who lives in my house, I have had no close contacts at all over the past three weeks. None.

If they think they're going to mess with Christmas Day, they have another think coming.

I completely understand that if they reduce the restrictions to Level 2 for December there will be another spike in cases in January and inevitably higher restrictions in February. I don't want another lockdown, but I understand that it is highly likely we'll have a vaccine on the other side of any early 2021 lockdown, so okay, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

podgeandrodge · 12-11-2020 02:23PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Wait and see. Anything being suggested is pure speculation. We've still just over 2 weeks to go.

Won't bother getting into the €9 debate again, been there done that, waste of time.

You mean the debate or the meal is a waste of time Stephen? Or both!

prunudo · 12-11-2020 02:23PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Any evidence of this majority you speak of. I mean there’s always dickheads but most people trying to do their bit for a normal Christmas.

If only the wilfully ignorant minority got more than a dirty look when they flout restrictions. Might stop them doing so.

Wouldn't class them as dickheads but would estimate about 80% of neighbours, family and friends are ignoring the current restrictions. Not full on mass house gatherings but certainly the odd house visit and a trip beyond 5km.

caveat emptor · 12-11-2020 02:23PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Christ...

I've already explained this, twice!

People, the majority ARE following the guidelines and ARE adhering to the restrictions that are in place!

However, they won't AT CHRISTMAS TIME! They will meet up with other households! They will have social contacts and it is naïve of people to think otherwise

Ok oh wise one. Thanks for looking into Christmas future for us. I think you are probably right. Take a deep breath.

Are there definitive rules yet for Christmas? How will we know people will break the rule if we don’t even know what it is. All very hypothetical

normanoffside · 12-11-2020 02:26PM

MOR316 wrote: »

I know quite a number of people who flew out and back home again in the last few weeks.

Not tourists per say but, you get the picture. You can still leave and come back and people can still come in so telling people with families not to come home is a bit much.

And no, the people that I know of who went away are not isolating :rolleyes:

Ah I get ya. Irish people going abroad for a getaway and coming back, that's definitely happening
I thought you were talking about tourists coming to Ireland for a holiday (that is definitely not happening!)

By the way the advice is restricted movements on return from abroad, not Isolation. People keep confusing this but there is a massive difference.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:26PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

So for some reason, known only to yourself, those on social media who agree with your stance are a majority and those elsewhere who disagree are a minority. Thankfully we don't select governments or live our lives based on that obscure logic. Not only are those dissenting from your view a minority but you can determine the size of that perceived cohort.

What, me looking at Twitter replies, seeing people giving Leo **** over what he just said is for a reason only known to myself?

Christ...

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:28PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Ok oh wise one. Thanks for looking into Christmas future for us.

:cool:

Respect :cool:

bodhrandude · 12-11-2020 02:28PM

gipi wrote: »

This might explain the continued high numbers in NI...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/police-find-19-people-hiding-in-bedroom-and-two-in-attic-at-belfast-house-party-1.4406812?mode=amp

I wonder how many have been fined in the republic for this behaviour since the second lockdown.

lemonTrees · 12-11-2020 02:35PM

JDD wrote: »

We're having my parents and my brothers over for Christmas Day, so that's three households in total. I'm doing this whether it's a Level 2 or a Level 3. That was the point of this lockdown, that we could have a normal Christmas Day. I don't know if I'm in the minority or majority, but I don't particularly care.

I'll obviously have way less contacts than I would over a normal Christmas. No work Christmas Do. No meet ups with secondary school or college friends. No nativity play to attend. No birthday parties for the kids, or after-school classes, or last minute shopping for stocking presents. We adhered to all the rules so far, and apart from my immediate family who lives in my house, I have had no close contacts at all over the past three weeks. None.

If they think they're going to mess with Christmas Day, they have another think coming.

I completely understand that if they reduce the restrictions to Level 2 for December there will be another spike in cases in January and inevitably higher restrictions in February. I don't want another lockdown, but I understand that it is highly likely we'll have a vaccine on the other side of any early 2021 lockdown, so okay, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

That's all well and good but just don't be moaning about another lockdown at the end of January and more businesses going to the wall because you and others like you couldn't go one year without Xmas get togethers.

Jim_Hodge · 12-11-2020 02:36PM

MOR316 wrote: »

What, me looking at Twitter replies, seeing people giving Leo **** over what he just said is for a reason only known to myself?

Christ...

You're ignoring the core of the issue over what you posted. When did Twitter opinion represent the "vast" majority and any opinions elsewhere become the naïve ramblings of a small minority? And, yes, you reading opinions on Twitter and projecting them to represent a large majority of society has to be due to some logic that you yourself has devised.

I have no doubt, and am in no way surprised, the opinions expressed represent how some people feel and will act but it doesn't automatically follow that this will overwhelming be the response of most people.

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:37PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

You're ignoring the core of the issue over what you posted. When did Twitter opinion represent the "vast" majority and any opinions elsewhere become the naïve ramblings of a small minority? And, yes, you reading opinions on Twitter and projecting them to represent a large majority of society has to be due to some logic that you yourself has devised.

I have no doubt, and am in no way surprised, the opinions expressed represent how some people feel and will act but it doesn't automatically follow that this will overwhelming be the response of most people.

It will happen

Do I want it to? I honestly don't care! What others do is none of my business. I just know it will

is_that_so · 12-11-2020 02:39PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

We need mandatory testing 3 days prior to arrival like Spain are introducing, it won't result in zero cases being imported but would help a lot.

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-11-12/spain-will-require-negative-pcr-test-from-travelers-coming-from-over-60-countries.html

Judging by the details in that story it won't affect us as we are now below 150 per 100K, even if the EU travel map still has us as red. TBH it sound much the same as our own plan, with 5 days etc.

eagle eye · 12-11-2020 02:40PM

Deleted User wrote:

How was the effect of schools closing there within 7 days if its going to take another 10 days to two weeks to see the effect of them opening

So now we see why you are posting so much in this thread. It's all about oneupmanship, that's childish in my view.
I could go back through all the covid threads and show how I credibly wrong you were about things.
I won't do that though and I never hide behind links or numbers.
I can never be accused of putting up links from dodgy sources either.
I note you never went back and brought up my predicted numbers growth from back in August which turned out to be right on the number.
I note you never brought up any if my posts about how necessary a lockdown was. Do you agree now that this lockdown was necessary.
What you did was brought up something about schools being closed instead of being reopened as if they are the same thing. That shows how little you understand the difference between growth and reduction.

bush · 12-11-2020 02:49PM

MOR316 wrote: »

It will happen

Do I want it to? I honestly don't care! What others do is none of my business. I just know it will

Anyone who doesn't think that's going to happen is living in a dream world. People won't even give it a second thought

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:53PM

bush wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't think that's going to happen is living in a dream world. People won't even give it a second thought

It's one of the possibilities.

That or they're just on a wind up

I already know it's happening currently, I've been invited to them and it will happen at Christmas!

12-11-2020 02:54PM

lemonTrees wrote: »

That's all well and good but just don't be moaning about another lockdown at the end of January and more businesses going to the wall because you and others like you couldn't go one year without Xmas get togethers.

This is a bit of a thick argument though isn't it?

If we don't have Xmas get togethers, businesses will go to the walls. If we do have Xmas get togethers, there will be another lockdown and businesses will go to the walls.

If we can't see our friends and family in December, what exactly was the point of all of this?

MOR316 · 12-11-2020 02:55PM

AdamD wrote: »

This is a bit of a thick argument though isn't it?

If we don't have Xmas get togethers, businesses will go to the walls. If we do have Xmas get togethers, there will be another lockdown and businesses will go to the walls.

If we can't see our friends and family in December, what exactly was the point of all of this?

Ignore it... Has to be a wind up

screamer · 12-11-2020 02:57PM

I don’t think seeing our friends and family at Christmas was ever the reason for level 5, it was bandied about as a sweetener or manipulation ( depending on your point of view) to make the medicine more palatable. If we see Covid rise because of Christmas, we’ll have to pay the piper come the new year

is_that_so · 12-11-2020 02:59PM

screamer wrote: »

I don’t think seeing our friends and family at Christmas was ever the reason for level 5, it was bandied about as a sweetener or manipulation ( depending on your point of view) to make the medicine more palatable. If we see Covid rise because of Christmas, we’ll have to pay the piper come the new year

But we will, in theory, be much closer to the vaccine solution.

whisky_galore · 12-11-2020 03:06PM

JDD wrote: »

We're having my parents and my brothers over for Christmas Day, so that's three households in total. I'm doing this whether it's a Level 2 or a Level 3. That was the point of this lockdown, that we could have a normal Christmas Day. I don't know if I'm in the minority or majority, but I don't particularly care.

I'll obviously have way less contacts than I would over a normal Christmas. No work Christmas Do. No meet ups with secondary school or college friends. No nativity play to attend. No birthday parties for the kids, or after-school classes, or last minute shopping for stocking presents. We adhered to all the rules so far, and apart from my immediate family who lives in my house, I have had no close contacts at all over the past three weeks. None.

If they think they're going to mess with Christmas Day, they have another think coming.

I completely understand that if they reduce the restrictions to Level 2 for December there will be another spike in cases in January and inevitably higher restrictions in February. I don't want another lockdown, but I understand that it is highly likely we'll have a vaccine on the other side of any early 2021 lockdown, so okay, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

I think if this is a prevailing attitude, we need more stick than trusting people to do the right thing. It was never about "saving" Xmas like a kiddies Xmas movie.

A virus doesn't give a fúck about your picture book Xmas with the Macallisters.

JDD · 12-11-2020 03:07PM

screamer wrote: »

I don’t think seeing our friends and family at Christmas was ever the reason for level 5, it was bandied about as a sweetener or manipulation ( depending on your point of view) to make the medicine more palatable. If we see Covid rise because of Christmas, we’ll have to pay the piper come the new year

Except it was. When MM addressed the nation, he said that if we stick to the Level 5 now, we will be able to loosen the restrictions at Christmas. I think the timing of this Level 5 has been all about having breathing space during December to open the economy somewhat and to allow the nation a bit of a break. I think the government know that they are not going to invest in a world class track or trace system, because they are relying on a vaccine coming in March/April. I think the government know that it is likely that there will be a third lockdown in Q1 2021, and they know that people will not adhere to it if they are not allowed a bit of leeway at Christmas.

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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