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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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  • #5342
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Trump stated before the election that the election was rigged and he would not respect or accept the result if he lost. He also refused to commit to a peaceful transition.

    At some point voters need to he held accountable for their votes. This was all a very real possibility, nay a probability, yet they ignored it.

    How would you recommend people be held accountable for how they vote ?
    Put on a blacklist or maybe a hefty fine ?


  • #5343
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,061 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    Well that's odd, I remember trunp supporters throughout October telling us Republican voters would respect whatever the result was. How entirely unexpected, it's almost as if they were signalling virtues based on nothing but lies they were telling themselves.

    I remember that picture of the woman screaming after the Trump election is regularly trotted out to show how the left are a bunch of snowflakes that never accepted the 2016 result.

    I know nothing about the woman, but I certainly know that she is irrelevant to the country as a whole while know we have the POTUS doing exactly the same thing, but of course, he is a vastly different and more dangerous position.

    But the look is the same. Funny how those very posters that regularly posted that pic are not now calling out Trump for the same thing.


  • #5344
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    You think that armed militias, whose whole raison d'etre is to stand up to corrupt government, will stand by when they believe that the very core of their country, democracy itself, has been stolen?




    Except those very militias are on his side.


    They are all for fighting the corrupt government, as long as it's the other side's corruption


  • #5345
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    In trying to drum up support for the GOP Senators in the run off in Georgia, GOP chairwoman admits Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are POTUS and VPOTUS elect..

    https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1326649903599267841?s=19

    Slowly, but surely they're coming into reality.

    I was taking Lindsay Graham's new found interest in managing the deficit an admission he was expecting a Democrat in the white House.

    Not a hope any of them would mention the deficit if Trump was remaining in power.


  • #5346
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,061 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    How would you recommend people be held accountable for how they vote ?
    Put on a blacklist or maybe a hefty fine ?

    Of course not, but this continual attempt to remove them from any responsibility with statements like 'Trump voters aren't racist' or 'Trump voters won't stand for an attack on democracy' is nonsense.

    They have a vote, they made their choice. They cannot then cry that they are not happy with what Trump does when he makes it plainly obvious, in fact, plain-talking is what seemingly makes him so appealing.

    Nothing that has happened since the election is a surprise to anyone that was looking. He said he wouldn't accept the election. He said he had teams of lawyers ready for a fight to contest the results. He said he considered mail-in voting a fraud.

    This is the actions they voted for. That their vote gave Trump the cover of legitimacy. Had only 20m voted for him this would not even be a conversation. But 70m+ gives him the ability to argue. That is on each and every one of those voters.

    They knew this was the likely course of action, but they decided that it was a price worth paying. So if democracy is wrecked, they only have themselves to blame.


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  • #5347
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,052 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    This is it, the only violent outbursts were going to come from the left (not that biden is left but they werent backing trump) every business in DC boarded up incase trump won, they know how those people take news badly...

    Provide some examples of this election related violence from the left.


  • #5348
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Provide some examples of this election related violence from the left.

    Literally any anti trump / BLM / antifa protest since november 2016, come on its blindingly obvious


  • #5349
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Of course not, but this continual attempt to remove them from any responsibility with statements like 'Trump voters aren't racist' or 'Trump voters won't stand for an attack on democracy' is nonsense.

    They have a vote, they made their choice. They cannot then cry that they are not happy with what Trump does when he makes it plainly obvious, in fact, plain-talking is what seemingly makes him so appealing.

    Nothing that has happened since the election is a surprise to anyone that was looking. He said he wouldn't accept the election. He said he had teams of lawyers ready for a fight to contest the results. He said he considered mail-in voting a fraud.

    This is the actions they voted for. That their vote gave Trump the cover of legitimacy. Had only 20m voted for him this would not even be a conversation. But 70m+ gives him the ability to argue. That is on each and every one of those voters.

    They knew this was the likely course of action, but they decided that it was a price worth paying. So if democracy is wrecked, they only have themselves to blame.

    Please don't throw out something as stupid as all Trump voters are racist, I'm not even going to argue this nonsense.
    People vote for their preferred candidate on different points and policies, you can't posit that everyone who voted for him thinks the election was stolen. One thing is for sure though at least some of his supporters do think there has been corruption in the election process in some shape or form. I myself don't think enough to change the result but the fact is some Americans do think there are problems with the elections. The only way to re-establish the legitimacy and faith in democracy is to investigate claims and prove them wrong not to just tell them to shut up.
    Asking questions of the election will not wreck democracy, ignoring the concerns of a large swathe of your population and leaving them dissatisfied and untrusting of the process will.


  • #5350
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Literally any anti trump / BLM / antifa protest since november 2016, come on its blindingly obvious

    It's blindingly obvious the democrats are more violent than republicans? Is this some form of new sarcasm that I've never heard of?


  • #5351
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,876 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Asking questions of the election will not wreck democracy, ignoring the concerns of a large swathe of your population and leaving them dissatisfied and untrusting of the process will.

    They don't trust the process because their guy lost. We're a week out now and there is no evidence of any corruption.

    So they can believe what they want in their weird little post truth conspiraloon bubble but when they're asked for evidence....


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  • #5352
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Please don't throw out something as stupid as all Trump voters are racist, I'm not even going to argue this nonsense.
    People vote for their preferred candidate on different points and policies, you can't posit that everyone who voted for him thinks the election was stolen. One thing is for sure though at least some of his supporters do think there has been corruption in the election process in some shape or form. I myself don't think enough to change the result but the fact is some Americans do think there are problems with the elections. The only way to re-establish the legitimacy and faith in democracy is to investigate claims and prove them wrong not to just tell them to shut up.
    Asking questions of the election will not wreck democracy, ignoring the concerns of a large swathe of your population and leaving them dissatisfied and untrusting of the process will.

    The problem is that Trump has created a narrative that the election was rigged and stolen and some people will not be dissuaded from this viewpoint because they believe everything the President says. If the claims are investigated and proven to be false, it will be merely viewed as a cover up and part of a wider conspiracy. There will be no changing their minds. Look at holocaust deniers or 9/11 truth seekers.


  • #5353
    Jin luk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭Jin luk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's blindingly obvious the democrats are more violent than republicans? Is this some form of new sarcasm that I've never heard of?

    Was it republicans that burnt city's to the ground?


  • #5354
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    This is it, the only violent outbursts were going to come from the left (not that biden is left but they werent backing trump) every business in DC boarded up incase trump won, they know how those people take news badly...

    In the last week, sheriffs and Police officers have been suspended or fired for threatening the public. A man threatening a senator has been arrested, he was heavily invested in the voter fraud conspiracy. I would say you're being incredibly optimistic about Trump supporters if you don't think they're gonna do anything violent the more he pushes this conspiracy.


  • #5355
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jin luk wrote: »
    Was it republicans that burnt city's to the ground?

    No, nor Democrats.

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-05/is-trump-right-are-democrats-destroying-cities-states


  • #5356
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's blindingly obvious the democrats are more violent than republicans? Is this some form of new sarcasm that I've never heard of?

    Eric and Co conveniently ignoring that right wing terrorism is viewed as greatest threat in the US by the FBI.


  • #5357
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Jin luk wrote: »
    Was it republicans that burnt city's to the ground?

    What cities were burnt to the ground?


  • #5358
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,052 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Literally any anti trump / BLM / antifa protest since november 2016, come on its blindingly obvious

    I said the election. None of those are directly election related..


  • #5359
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »
    The problem is that Trump has created a narrative that the election was rigged and stolen and some people will not be dissuaded from this viewpoint because they believe everything the President says. If the claims are investigated and proven to be false, it will be merely viewed as a cover up and part of a wider conspiracy. There will be no changing their minds. Look at holocaust deniers or 9/11 truth seekers.

    Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
    This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.


  • #5360
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,052 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Except those very militias are on his side.

    They are all for fighting the corrupt government, as long as it's the other side's corruption

    There has been a marked change in the trend of firearm sales in 2020:
    Gun retailers and industry analysts say its normal for Americans to stock up on firearms and ammo during an election year. In many cases, the analysts say, the surge is motivated by fears that a Democratic president might expand restrictions on gun ownership.
    But this year's sales spike is different because it's being driven by a rise in first-time gun buyers, especially among African Americans and women.

    About 40% of gun sales in the first four months of the year were made by first-time buyers — far higher than the annual average of 24% over the past two decades, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade association that tracks gun sales and analyzes industry trends.
    Gun sales among Black Americans are up 58% through September, according to the NSSF. Mark Oliva, the foundation's director of public affairs, said the rise in Black gun ownership is unprecedented.
    "We've never seen a year-over-year increase that large in African-American gun buyers," Oliva told CNN Business. "It is the largest demographic increase we've seen. People that are buying guns today look a whole lot less like me and a whole lot more like the rest of America," added Oliva, who is White.
    ...
    Jefferson said fears of violence by White supremacists and police have also been a major concern for his members, especially following the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in April, as well as the police killings of Breonna Taylor, George Floyd and Rayshard Brooks.
    "It just seems we've had a lot more high-profile incidents where White supremacists have caused harm to Black people," Jefferson said. "There's a greater awareness of it and concern for it and people wanting to protect themselves and their families against it."
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/24/business/gun-sales-surge-black-americans-women/index.html


  • #5361
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
    This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

    Nothing, and I mean nothing, will re-assure them.

    Trump has flung so much **** at this that they will not accept the results even if he wins. Lets be real; they don't care if it is rigged once Don is on the throne.


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  • #5362
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Of course not, but this continual attempt to remove them from any responsibility with statements like 'Trump voters aren't racist' or 'Trump voters won't stand for an attack on democracy' is nonsense.
    Or, "It's Biden's fault for not providing a good alternative".

    The fact is that all 72m of those people are either stupid or evil.

    Someone who voted for Trump cannot call themselves a decent, well-informed person. Simple as.

    They're either a decent person who is ignorant of what Trump has done over the last four years, or they're an intelligent person who doesn't care.

    Stupid or evil. (or both)


  • #5363
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Nothing, and I mean nothing, will re-assure them.

    Trump has flung so much **** at this that they will not accept the results even if he wins. Lets be real; they don't care if it is rigged once Don is on the throne.

    I disagree and if your being honest you don't know that either, you may believe it, you don't know it.


  • #5364
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,766 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Why not investigate the claims?

    Because claims have to have SOME sort of substance to warrant an investigation in the first place.

    So far all that has been put forward has been baseless hearsay and nonsense. That's simply not good enough to waste a lot of time and money on.


  • #5365
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Why waste time investigating completely baseless claims from a man with a history of being a sore loser?

    Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.


  • #5366
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,929 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
    This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

    It is up tp the person screaming fraud, and they started this BEFORE the election, to prove fraud. they haven't done that, not even close. Trump needs to put on his big boy panties and admit he lost.


  • #5367
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?

    Because any rebuttal with facts is dismissed as part of the bigger conspiracy or they simply move the goalposts.


  • #5368
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
    This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

    Oh, I'm all for investigating the claims and to have them proven false but there's no way that 99% of Trump voters will be reassured by any investigation. Unless Trump comes out and admits what he said was nonsense - something he will never do - a sizeable proportion of them will still believe the election was rigged.


  • #5369
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,929 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

    you can't forget Trump. If people need reassuring it is because he constantly spews baseless lies about election fraud.


  • #5370
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,717 ✭ [Deleted User]


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

    They do know this. Trump nor his supporters were not concerned that their was fraud in the election four years ago.

    In fact, they should be more confident that there is no fraud in this election as pointless lawsuits have already been thrown out by the courts at their first step, whereas nobody made similarly stupid lawsuits four years ago because of, you know, common sense.


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  • #5371
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,052 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Literally any anti trump / BLM / antifa protest since november 2016, come on its blindingly obvious

    You are completely out of touch with reality, in a bad way.
    New research, based on almost 900 politically-motivated plots and murders in the US since 1994, found only one person's death in the last 25 years was linked to "antifa" or anti-fascists, and the person who died was the attacker.
    In comparison, over that same period, 329 murders were linked to the far-right.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7?op=1&r=US&IR=T

    Attorney General William Barr and other top government officials have frequently blamed Antifa activists for the violence stemming from recent demonstrations in the wake George Floyd's death; however, in NPR's review of court documents of 51 individuals facing federal charges related to protests, none is alleged to have links to the Antifa movement.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/

    You appear to be swallowing the pot stirring spittle ejected by Trump, Barr and right wing media, completely unfiltered (eewww).

    Anyway, back to the election. Violence from the left - none. Meanwhile, your boys hatched a plot to kidnap the Democrat governor of Michigan and to kill key police officers. While in Alabama, a police chief reckons people who vote Democrat should be lined up and shot in the head.


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