The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 04:10PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Which failed State,

The one you are pointing at Johnny. Don't be going all coy now because a question has been asked.

grayzer75 · 10-11-2020 04:29PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Nothing stopping a unilateral Truth Commission or one restricted to Northern Ireland actors. Perhaps the Stormont Executive could provide for one is Sinn Fein not willing to do it themselves.

All parties to the conflict need to engage but the Brits won't as their whole twisted game of running agents and collusion will be blown open. The Irish government need to be involved as well for that matter.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 05:19PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been saying it for years. A failed state that cannot govern itself due to the problems created by a ridiculous partition.

Would you agree Johnny?

Francie, given that you defend the actions of the Stormont Executive on a regular basis compared to nearly universal condemnation of the Irish government, I guess we must even more of a failure as a State.

Actually, the Irish government gets a little more credit than the British government so they must be a failure of a State as well.

Perhaps Cuba or North Korea are good examples of a successful State. Perhaps you could list examples of States that govern themselves better than Northern Ireland with reference to your defence of the actions of those governments.

JohnnyFlash · 10-11-2020 05:20PM

I see Michelle O’Neill has appointed her 4th special advisor. Arlene has appointed her 3rd. Wasn’t there a bit of fake outrage around here when similar was going on in Ireland?

grayzer75 · 10-11-2020 05:22PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I see Michelle O’Neill has appointed her 4th special advisor. Arlene has appointed her 3rd. Wasn’t there a bit of fake outrage around here when similar was going on in Ireland?

Not quite hitting the 64 mark yet....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40055030.html

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 05:24PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Francie, given that you defend the actions of the Stormont Executive on a regular basis compared to nearly universal condemnation of the Irish government, I guess we must even more of a failure as a State.

Actually, the Irish government gets a little more credit than the British government so they must be a failure of a State as well.

Perhaps Cuba or North Korea are good examples of a successful State. Perhaps you could list examples of States that govern themselves better than Northern Ireland with reference to your defence of the actions of those governments.

Perhaps you could give us an example of another state that requires an international agreement between two sovereign governments just to get the lights switched on.

Why oh why you have to go on routine world tours rather than face up to the realities on your doorstep defeats me.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 05:36PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Perhaps you could give us an example of another state that requires an international agreement between two sovereign governments just to get the lights switched on.

Why oh why you have to go on routine world tours rather than face up to the realities on your doorstep defeats me.

But, it doesn't Francie, does it?

That is hyperbole and exaggeration. Your average school parent's association governs itself better than the Stormont Executive. That isn't down to failure as a State, that is down to the performance of individuals holding Ministerial positions, mostly from the DUP and SF.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 05:40PM

blanch152 wrote: »

But, it doesn't Francie, does it?

That is hyperbole and exaggeration. Your average school parent's association governs itself better than the Stormont Executive. That isn't down to failure as a State, that is down to the performance of individuals holding Ministerial positions, mostly from the DUP and SF.

And I in turn call bull**** on that. No format of governance in northern Ireland has ever worked blanch. Simple as. No need to look at anywhere else.

No system has EVER worked because it can't.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 05:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I in turn call bull**** on that. No format of governance in northern Ireland has ever worked blanch. Simple as. No need to look at anywhere else.

No system has EVER worked because it can't.

Nonsense.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of the formats of governance in Northern Ireland. For example, majority rule as it applied up until 1969 works fine down here. Gerrymandering and lack of rights for minorities were the problem, not the system of government.

If you are correct, creating a different minority in a larger state won't work either.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 05:54PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of the formats of governance in Northern Ireland. For example, majority rule as it applied up until 1969 works fine down here. Gerrymandering and lack of rights for minorities were the problem, not the system of government.

If you are correct, creating a different minority in a larger state won't work either.

Partition created a state that has proven again and again and again that it cannot govern itself.
If it could there would be no requirement for the supervision of 2 sovereign governments in an International agreement between them.

You can run from that reality for as long as you wish.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 06:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Partition created a state that has proven again and again and again that it cannot govern itself.
If it could there would be no requirement for the supervision of 2 sovereign governments in an International agreement between them.

You can run from that reality for as long as you wish.

You are confusing causation and correlation.

There is a state that was created when this island was partitioned. The governments of the state have generally been incompetent at governance.

Those are two facts. There is a relationship in that the two states are the same, yet you haven't proven that the first fact caused the second fact.

There are many other potential reasons for the second fact.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 06:07PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You are confusing causation and correlation.

There is a state that was created when this island was partitioned. The governments of the state have generally been incompetent at governance.

Those are two facts. There is a relationship in that the two states are the same, yet you haven't proven that the first fact caused the second fact.

There are many other potential reasons for the second fact.

The glaring reality is that it doesn't matter what the competancy levels are. There is an international agreement between two sovereign governments because governance of itself proved again and again to be impossible.

When you are ready to deal with that reality let us know.

Factor in too that only one part of the community will be taking part in a 100 year 'celebration' of this disastrous partition and you might start to get at why it has been a complete failure for all of it's people.

JohnnyFlash · 10-11-2020 06:10PM

Folks, I think I speak for everyone when I suggest this is a rabbit hole no one wants either of you to go down.

blanch152 · 10-11-2020 06:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The glaring reality is that it doesn't matter what the competancy levels are. There is an international agreement between two sovereign governments because governance of itself proved again and again to be impossible.

When you are ready to deal with that reality let us know.

Factor in too that only one part of the community will be taking part in a 100 year 'celebration' of this disastrous partition and you might start to get at why it has been a complete failure for all of it's people.

I have given my view, it is clear and unambiguous. Your post does not address the points raised.

This is the Sinn Fein thread, not the Northern Ireland failure thread, so I am not going to comment further.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 06:21PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I have given my view, it is clear and unambiguous. Your post does not address the points raised.

This is the Sinn Fein thread, not the Northern Ireland failure thread, so I am not going to comment further.

It is ambiguous.

You haven't for a minute accepted or explained why it is the north requires an international agreement and a complex and unique framework just to have rudimentary government.

Even with this agreement it's systems have broken down and as we have seen with Covid managed to be a danger to us in the south.

Blame whoever you want, it doesn't get away from the fact that it has failed to find a way to govern itself after 100 years of trying.

RandomViewer · 10-11-2020 07:15PM

joeguevara wrote: »

In 2015 fuel and tobacco smuggling around the border was costing a billion to the exchequer annually.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fuel-laundering-tobacco-smuggling-costing-1bn-annually-1.2114673?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Ffuel-laundering-tobacco-smuggling-costing-1bn-annually-1.2114673

And one of the largest smugglers is a blueshirt with a fondness for gold jewellery, think you need to check the glazing

GhostyMcGhost · 10-11-2020 07:24PM

Gerer wrote: »

No other party on the island has anything approaching a property portfolio of 50+ properties, and no other political party is as cash-rich as Sinn Féin.

They keep this quiet when shouting about the lack of building and high rents.

Thanks Leo for registering just to tell us that

suicide_circus · 10-11-2020 07:26PM

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Thanks Leo for registering just to tell us that

Is it true?

GhostyMcGhost · 10-11-2020 07:29PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is it true?

Sure why not :pac:

yabadabado · 10-11-2020 07:30PM

I think it is true,remember it cropping up before.

Not sure what difference it makes .

ShooterSF · 10-11-2020 07:31PM

So you're saying that while Sinn Fein cry about high rents and low availability of housing the reason they haven't changed that all these years they've been running the country is because secretly they don't want to. Got ya.

yabadabado · 10-11-2020 07:48PM

Gerer wrote: »

So it's alright so long as they are not in government?

Are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed own any properties?

The 50+ properties you have said they own do you what they are used for or can you give us a link to them ?

Bikerman2019 · 10-11-2020 07:50PM

Sure good way to spend a load of sterling.

Beasty · 10-11-2020 07:50PM

\Threads merged

mynamejeff · 10-11-2020 08:08PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed own any properties?

The 50+ properties you have said they own do you what they are used for or can you give us a link to them ?

not to put words in another posters mouth but

Im sure he is suggesting that it would be nice to see where the money to own so many property's come from

unusual donations from America and the UK , party members excess after the average industrial wage is taken, stolen northern bank notes , taxes from drug dealers, grateful middle eastern mobsters, laundered money from laundered fuel.

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 08:17PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

not to put words in another posters mouth but

Im sure he is suggesting that it would be nice to see where the money to own so many property's come from

unusual donations from America and the UK , party members excess after the average industrial wage is taken, stolen northern bank notes , taxes from drug dealers, grateful middle eastern mobsters, laundered money from laundered fuel.

Another ongoing savage indictment of The Gardai, The PSNI and the revenue services of both governments.

Just think, all you guys have this info, and nothing has been done. Shocking stuff altogether.

joeguevara · 10-11-2020 09:59PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

And one of the largest smugglers is a blueshirt with a fondness for gold jewellery, think you need to check the glazing

What are you on about glazing.

mynamejeff · 10-11-2020 10:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another ongoing savage indictment of The Gardai, The PSNI and the revenue services of both governments.

Just think, all you guys have this info, and nothing has been done. Shocking stuff altogether.

same weak response to the same serious concern

you of course realise your not denying the statement your just saying "prove it"

FrancieBrady · 10-11-2020 10:28PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

same weak response to the same serious concern

you of course realise your not denying the statement your just saying "prove it"

I voted for the first time in a GE for SF having seriously considered if they had fulfilled their committments to the GFA. I actually read IMC reports, all of them, and reviewed other information that all says that they are.

YOU are in possession of information that they aren't. The onus is on you to prove it.

And whe you are done, can you even begin to explain away FG and FF's responsibility to all who signed the GFA in ignoring this information?

It is long since time to put up (proven and factual info) or shut up.

maccored · 10-11-2020 11:09PM

the old enigma - "SF are economically illiterate. Why are SF the richest party in the state?"

Answer: Only idiots think SF are economically illiterate

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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