BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Why is cash payment still an option for bus, its a farce! Also the greens shoiid walk unless meyro proceeds as planjed. Its collossally importajt to dublin and the region. The sum is also a financial irrelevance in the scheme of things...

Idbatterim wrote: »

Why is cash payment still an option for bus, its a farce! Also the greens shoiid walk unless meyro proceeds as planjed. Its collossally importajt to dublin and the region. The sum is also a financial irrelevance in the scheme of things...

Yes it's ridiculous, and as someone who rarely uses buses I never have a clue how much a ticket costs. And why can't you tag on and tag off and be charged accordingly?
Are there any plans to allow card/phone payment?

I know that this is out of date as it was drawn up from earlier in the summer. But I was looking at this yellow page with the table which have the launch dates of the new bus routes being rolled out for BusConnects in Dublin. And I was having a look at the routes being changed in phases 6, 8 & 12 from it. I thought that I found some confusion with the rollout regarding some of my local routes that I use which run from Blackrock, Dún Laoghaire & Sandyford. I was thinking that it would be a good idea to remove GAI's 63/63a & 114 from phase 8 & 12 of the table & be added into the current routes that should be scrapped in phase 6. I would then add the L26 (226) & L27 (227) from phase 8 of the table above & put it in with the new routes to be launched in phase 6 which is to launch between July/Sept 2022. Would that not be a good idea in hindsight or I am missing something out there that maybe should have been addressed from other people who are working on this initial rollout?

Now; I may be accused by some of nitpicking here & probably from others from outside boards when I think of this idea particularly from people in the local community.

However I do think that the S8 being listed in phase 6 of this table & the L26 (226) in phase 8 are like a near direct mirror of the 114 with GAI. The new services that will replace the 114 have vastly better timetables being provided for them by the NTA when it was proposed from the network redesign consultations. The 114 in this case not being due to be scrapped until Sep 2024/Dec 2024 would probably be a redundant route for anyone to use at this point. It could become a potential victim of sustained periods of dead running on it's daily timetable while other routes on it's route can take it's passengers. I may be controversial with thinking about this idea when other people are reading about it, however, I do think the amount of passengers that are currently served on the 114 would be better served with using the L26 & S8 instead on a permanent basis once the 114 is scrapped for good preferably from phase 6 of the rollout timeline. The new routes do cover most of the same areas when compared to the 114 for the vast majority of it's route. The 114's PVR allocation maybe then should be redeployed to the other new routes launching in the phase 6 timeline so they can continue to serve other passengers served on the new S orbitals.

The 63/63a from GAI can also be replaced with the L27 because that new route covers most of the exact same route as the 63/63a from Dún Laoghaire to Ballyogan. The only part of the route that is omitted from the L27 is the section from Carrickmines down Glenamuck Road & then further down into Kilternan. The L26 will cover that part of it when going to/from Blackrock DART Station.

My own thinking on dead running i.e. buses running empty when they should be carrying passengers to create demand; is that it should not take place at all when the network is being rebuilt from scratch when it's getting rebuilt in Dublin. The primary reason in these times is that it can waste a lot of money when it's not supposed to do under any circumstances. Public money is really a finite resource as we go through this global pandemic. As we are now in a period of transition to a post Covid economy here once we hear news of a vaccine getting launched for next year; public money being wasted because of buses having to do dead running should not have to be tolerated from citizens at this time. It would probably create an undue level of stress on the operators overtime when we could be going through a huge amount of uncertainty when the economy begins to recover from the worldwide global pandemic. Other services could begin to creak under pressure when Covid has wrecked our finances to support a huge amount of people from not working in their jobs at the moment.

I also think if the Government & the NTA reportedly in favour of sustainability, as the green party are a partner in government for the next 4 or so years, to try to get climate change addressed here. As long as public money from the remaining taxpayers trying to work here & does not get wasted from running new bus routes that could run empty around our capital city. The money saved from avoiding this exercise should then be used to begin rolling out the other remaining parts of the new bus network in Dublin in a sustainable way so that the rollout of the BusConnects routes in the capital do not get subject to more delays.

BusConnects in other cities like Galway, Cork, Limerick & Waterford would need to have radical plans being put in place that would effectively have dead running eliminated when newly proposed bus routes are being run between other termini while within their own cities. There is no doubt that people living outside Dublin should not tolerate dead running on their buses while they are run in their own cities. People could then think that the new bus network would not actually work for them as expected as the country is trying to fully recover from the effects of Covid in the economy when looking at the longer term outlook.

Also; as I was looking at the current orbital routes of phase 6 for the Dublin rollout; most of them displayed on it are currently run by Go-Ahead with the exception of the 61 that's with Dublin Bus. I would assume that from phase 6 the S2, S6 & S8 would be run with Go-Ahead Ireland & the S2 and 24 would be run with Dublin Bus. I'm thinking the routes being allocated in each phase on the table above could be attached to their current PSO contract arrangements with the NTA unless other routes get added to Go-Ahead Ireland overtime to take on more routes for this new bus network in the GDA.

The future is phone payment anyway. In Switzerland, you open the app at your boarding bus stop, slide a bar across, the app locates you and the stop you start your journey, slide the bar back when you get off. The app calculates the cheapest fare for you. It doesn't matter how long you spend on public transport, how many times you change, how many different journeys you make during the day, it calculates the cheapest fare. If you use it multiple times during the day, at a certain point you will likely be put on a daily ticket meaning the rest of your journeys wont cost you any more. That is how to make public transport, including interchanges, attractive.

In this day and age, most people have smart phones, and many of those who dont will have FTPs. Keeping Leap and offboard ticket purchase can accommodate anyone else. The problem is habit, keeping cash payment on buses means some people will continue to do so despite there being better alternatives available. Bite the bullet and get rid of cash payment, it will improve services and people will adapt, and all but the most stubborn will realise that the cashless system is infinitely better.

Peregrine wrote: »

Yep. I wouldn't use a lot of the cycle lanes in these plans when going straight at a junction on a bike. The risk of getting killed is just far too high.

...This is in Airside. All of these movements would happen at the same time.



The Dutch junction at the Griffith Avenue/Drumcondra Road and the CYCLOPS junctions in Clondalkin looks good though...

Could you explain what makes the Airside one dangerous and the Griffith Ave one safe please? Is it the separation of the cyclepath from the road meaning the straight on cyclist doesn't veer away from the road as much?

Peregrine wrote: »

Yep. I wouldn't use a lot of the cycle lanes in these plans when going straight at a junction on a bike. The risk of getting killed is just far too high.

It would be similar to the Lombard Street/Townsend Street junction which most people on bikes ignore. It may be okay on low traffic streets but this design with a large volume of traffic including HGVs is just downright dangerous. This is in Airside. All of these movements would happen at the same time.

My first thought when I was looking at this route the other day was that the Metrolink cutting could be widened there to grade separate the cycle lanes there. Further south, the south (airport) bound cycle lane switches to the other (western) side of the R132 requiring cyclists to cross six traffic lanes at the Coachmans Inn. The bi-directional cycle lane should run along the western side of the R132 the whole way from the airport roundabout to where Metrolink crosses the R132 and then pass under the R132 and L2305 alongside Metrolink. Could also provide underpasses when removing the Pinnockhill Roundabout. This would mean cyclists would only have to interact with traffic at the Naul Road junction between Swords and the airport.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I see that the 111 is to be scrapped and a half-assed approach is taken for the 7d replacement with only a couple of journeys each way. The current status quo will still prevail for the denizens of Dalkey i.e. only accessible by car or bike. :mad:

Eh

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Eh

GT89 wrote: »

Except there will be more connections at various different locations along Dart line meaning Dalkey has more connections than ever before.

I mean aside from the DART as transport doesn't revolve solely around Dublin City. However, I probably should have clarified that before posting.

GT89 wrote: »

The DART doesn't revolve around Dublin City. After bus connects there will be numerous connections to other parts of the city that did not exist before at interchange locations on the DART line which will benefit Dalkey commuters. Considering Dalkey's population density it is more than adequately served by the DART.

Exactly. The people who have never had a useful bus service before who will have one with Bus Connects aren't writing to their local councillors because there is no appreciation for what they will lose. Those people are just as entitled to a bus service as the people who stand to lose out as a result of a re-routing.