Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

nofools · 07-11-2020 03:58AM

speckle wrote: »

You do understand that life is full of uncertainity? Again some deaths are a tradegy to the family of a loved one some are sadly expected or even longed for. We all know that. So the question I have for you is the death rate for the year higher than other illness like heart attacks, strokes, general respiratory illness even malnutrition?Do you regard them with the same importance?
Regarding the deaths this week has the percentage become higher per number of positive cases or going down. Are countrys that didnt get hit in spring doing worse than others. I am looking broadly, but focusing on here where we live.

What really worries you the most about this endemic disease?

And you do realise I already addressed and acknowledged that very basic fact of life.

Cardiac disease and hunger aren't transmissable. Seriously....or is it going to be round in circles with primary school arguments?

What worries me...the same things that worry you I'm sure, I think the risk of complacency and undoing any progress that has been made is absolutely massive and the consequences multiply. This known complacency effect is something your journals will have pointed you towards.

The economic fears only kick in if we listen to people with these basic objectively wrong arguments and make a bollox of it with lasting repercussions, for now things are just simmering and I think our odds of bouncing back just fine economically are good.

speckle · 07-11-2020 03:58AM

nofools wrote: »

I do believe in that freedom yes, but that is only half the picture as you well know hence my flippancy.

How about the ones afraid for their health, in the house all the time and not choosing to risk it?

Their freedom?

....Continues to come at the cost of our leisure if we go against what we know works (but is hard).

I read the science too and both sides of it but for god sake the daily figures globally tell anyone with any common sense and not steeped in bias all that needs to be known.

If they are in their house all the time.. Why are they afraid? That is their freedom to choose while we figure this out . that wont change.. it is not just about leisure time/ which is important but we need a functioning economy to support them now and in the future. I have friends still cocooning.. that doesnt mean other people cant respect their choice while still doing other things.

Are you cocooning still because you are high risk? Do you need help? Because many posters from everyside of this arguement would try to help you find the help you need, in that... the vast majority are united.. no matter what we disagree on.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:03AM

speckle wrote: »

If they are in their house all the time.. Why are they afraid? That is their freedom to choose while we figure this out . that wont change.. it is not just about leisure time/ which is important but we need a functioning economy to support them now and in the future. I have friends still cocooning.. that doesnt mean other people cant respect their choice while still doing other things.

Are you cocooning still because you are high risk? Do you need help? Because many posters from everyside of this arguement would try to help you find the help you need, in that... the vast majority are united.. no matter what we disagree on.

They arent free to do as they choose because they have no control over the risk. The general public do.

No I am not cocooning, but it is a terrible tragedy that 8 months on we are no better off and that blame can be squarely aimed at the the people taking the piss with covid or using self delusionary arguments filled with half truths and bad science to convince others into the same.

speckle · 07-11-2020 04:17AM

nofools wrote: »

They arent free to do as they choose because they have no control over the risk. The general public do.

No I am not cocooning, but it is a terrible tragedy that 8 months on we are no better off and that blame can be squarely aimed at the the people taking the piss with covid or using self delusionary arguments filled with half truths and bad science to convince others into the same.

If they are high risk.. even at level 5.. they can choose to go out for walks.. safey talk to people at a distance. Have a family member over to help. Pair with another household if they live alone. Attend hospital sppointments etc. School or work maybe an issue.
I mentioned cardaic disease hunger etc and of course I know they srent transmitable like covid but they will still sadly kill multiples more than covid will this year.
Public health 101.. you dont blame people for getting a highly transmitable disease, you need to bring the public with you, that involves leadership and includes not being negative all the time. And I would definetly look to the HSE/Nephet/holahan/the government for alot of the recent mess ups... they have had 8 months to get their house in order.. and are still lacking in many ways.
And remember the vast majority are doing their best to keep to the rules and are the very people helping those who need to cocoon.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:20AM

speckle wrote: »

If they are high risk.. even at level 5.. they can choose to go out for walks.. safey talk to people at a distance. Have a family member over to help. Pair with another household if they live alone. Attend hospital sppointments etc. School or work maybe an issue.
I mentioned cardaic disease hunger etc and of course I know they srent transmitable like covid but they will still sadly kill multiples more than covid will this year.
Public health 101.. you dont blame people for getting a highly transmitable disease, you need to bring the public with you, that involves leadership and includes not being negative all the time. And I would definetly look to the HSE/Nephet/holahan/the government for alot of the recent mess ups... they have had 8 months to get their house in order.. and are still lacking in many ways.
And temember the vsst majority are doing their best to keep to the rules and our the very people helping those who need to cocoon.

They have made a lot of mistakes, I am simply asking that we don't cheerlead for more. The public have equal responsibility.

mandrake04 · 07-11-2020 04:35AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

To clarify the consequences of adopting such a strategy is expensive in terms of jobs and aviation. That's a real problem.

What I believe and call me crazy the cost of compensating those people is far less than multiple lockdowns and everybody not being able to have a normal life.

Kids should be allowed to play together.
Young adults should be allowed to date.
families should be allowed to meet.

Otherwise WTF do we stand for as a society.

Really what sort of society is more interested in their kids going uneducated and keeping businesses closed in order to facilitate their people going abroad on holidays?

That's the question?

People say look at NZ, closed their borders. That's partly true their borders only closed to foreigners... they are still operational for Citizens or those visiting for essential business. They just have to quarantine.

Now NZ had the choice to close their borders, the alternative would be to keep them open and since tourism and travel around world is only a fraction of what it is usually the tiny amount of visitors is not worth the sh!t if it sends the entire country is in lockdown anyway.

It would be like tourism in Ireland in April/May when everything was closed down hardly world tourism destination No.1, sure let do a tour of closed pubs and attractions.

speckle · 07-11-2020 04:46AM

nofools wrote: »

They have made a lot of mistakes, I am simply asking that we don't cheerlead for more. The public have equal responsibility.

Agree not cheerlead but have a proper debate amongst the public and amongst the scientists looking at every possibility taking the most up to date information and making decisions on what is not working and stop doing it, and what is working and does the data point other directions now. I think in some ways we are stuck like rabbits in head lights frozen with the same responses we had in spring and unable to move.

This disease is nasty to some but thankfully not the likes of ebola, which people I know have worked through in Africa and they definitly see a first world problem in our over reaction now with all the new tools and knowledge at our disposal that we have..

We have to find a way that is sustainable so that we dont get fatigued...both the public and people working in hospitals, Protect those who want to be protected and allows those to work that want to work. And this all has to be done in such a way that is transparent with clear reasons given.

A proper exit strategy wouldnt go astray either. As we really need to get back doing those sometimes small things that makes us human.. hugging.. touching.. dancing.. singing..being hopeful...working..socialising... laughing.. crying and yes even grieving properly those we have lost.

Oiche maith agus coladh samh.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:50AM

speckle wrote: »

Agree not cheerlead but have a proper debate amongst the public and amongst the scientists looking at every possibility taking the most up to date information and making decisions on what is not working and stop doing it, and what is working and does the data point other directions now. I think in some ways we are stuck like rabbits in head lights frozen with the same responses we had in spring and unable to move.

This disease is nasty to some but thankfully not the likes of ebola, which people I know have worked through in Africa and they definitly see a first world problem in our over reaction now with all the new tools and knowledge at our disposal that we have..

We have to find a way that is sustainable so that we dont get fatigued...both the public and people working in hospitals, Protect those who want to be protected and allows those to work that want to work. And this all has to be done in such a way that is transparent with clear reasons given.

A proper exit strategy wouldnt go astray either. As we really need to get back doing those sometimes small things that makes us human.. hugging.. touching.. dancing.. singing..being hopeful...working..socialising... laughing.. crying and yes even grieving properly those we have lost.

Oiche maith agus coladh samh.

It is almost as if other parts of the world haven't shown us the way and we are waiting on some messiah, eh!

I agree with you mostly on those aims.

speckle · 07-11-2020 05:00AM

nofools wrote: »

It is almost as if other parts of the world haven't shown us the way and we are waiting on some messiah, eh!

I agree with you mostly on those aims.

I think every country has found a little bit of gold dust and a lot of lead. We just have to follow what works best for our country which is probably a mixture of good old standard public health 101 and some new innovate ideas. And make sure that the cure is not worse than the disease. We got on top of TB and we can do it this time around.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-11-2020 05:11AM

Getting grimmer on the continent.

828 deaths in France yesterday, 446 deaths in Italy. Record case numbers in both too. Everywhere you look is the same deterioration.

Ireland, thankfully, has more control over the spread.

Rob A. Bank · 07-11-2020 07:24AM

Covid travel ban for visitors to UK from Denmark

"The UK has imposed an immediate ban on all visitors from Denmark amid concerns over a new coronavirus strain that has spread to humans from mink.

UK nationals or residents will be able to return to Britain from Denmark - but will have to isolate along with all members of their household for 14 days."

Do we have direct flights from Denmark ?

Rob A. Bank · 07-11-2020 07:31AM

US colleges have reported more than a quarter million coronavirus infections

But, but, but... we are told that Universities are not a problem !

zerosugarbuzz · 07-11-2020 07:51AM

8 people died yesterday “with” Covid. How many people died yesterday without covid? No one bothering to ask the age, location or underlying conditions of these deaths anymore? Just blind compliance.

mandrake04 · 07-11-2020 07:56AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Covid travel ban for visitors to UK from Denmark

"The UK has imposed an immediate ban on all visitors from Denmark amid concerns over a new coronavirus strain that has spread to humans from mink.

UK nationals or residents will be able to return to Britain from Denmark - but will have to isolate along with all members of their household for 14 days."

Do we have direct flights from Denmark ?

https://dublinairport.org/flights/denmark/dublin-to-copenhagen/

screamer · 07-11-2020 08:50AM

I’d really like feckit, I mean Nphet to publish what their goal is for reopening December 1st, as in what case numbers and icu numbers do we need to reach to get back to level 3. It’s far too much of a headmaster and student approach- just do what we say blindly and keep doing it or else no Christmas for ye! They treat us terribly with this approach and 4 more weeks to go, unless we know what the hell we’re aiming for, how will we ever hit target?
Reminds me of the iarnrod eireann advert, “ we’re not there yet but we’re getting there”, I don’t think they ever got there to be honest!

DOCARCH · 07-11-2020 08:53AM

screamer wrote: »

I’d really like feckit, I mean Nphet to publish what their goal is for reopening December 1st, as in what case numbers and icu numbers do we need to reach to get back to level 3. It’s far too much of a headmaster and student approach- just do what we say blindly and keep doing it or else no Christmas for ye! They treat us terribly with this approach and 4 more weeks to go, unless we know what the hell we’re aiming for, how will we ever hit target?

They said before between 50 and 100 cases a day.

screamer · 07-11-2020 08:54AM

DOCARCH wrote: »

They said before between 50 and 100 cases a day.

Good to know, can’t see us reaching those levels in flu season to be very honest.

Thierry12 · 07-11-2020 08:57AM

screamer wrote: »

Good to know, can’t see us reaching those levels in flu season to be very honest.

Agree

With schools open its impossible

They know that as well

DOCARCH · 07-11-2020 08:58AM

screamer wrote: »

Good to know, can’t see us reaching those levels in flu season to be very honest.

I think it's going to be a hard slog to get to that alright!

All I can foresee happening is retail opened up in December and then (temporary) easing of family restrictions around Christmas.

kenmc · 07-11-2020 09:18AM

screamer wrote: »

Good to know, can’t see us reaching those levels in flu season to be very honest.

Flu should have very little impact this year, the things being done to prevent vivid spreading also prevent flu spreading

screamer · 07-11-2020 09:33AM

kenmc wrote: »

Flu should have very little impact this year, the things being done to prevent vivid spreading also prevent flu spreading

what I mean is flu season is perfect conditions for covid to spread, it’s more that I’m thinking of than anything. Last lockdown we had 3 lovely months of weather to help get rid of it, but this time of year it’s cold, we’ve heating going and congregate indoors more, so it’ll be harder to reduce the infection rates than it was last spring.

Pitch n Putt · 07-11-2020 09:35AM

screamer wrote: »

I’d really like feckit, I mean Nphet to publish what their goal is for reopening December 1st, as in what case numbers and icu numbers do we need to reach to get back to level 3. It’s far too much of a headmaster and student approach- just do what we say blindly and keep doing it or else no Christmas for ye! They treat us terribly with this approach and 4 more weeks to go, unless we know what the hell we’re aiming for, how will we ever hit target?
Reminds me of the iarnrod eireann advert, “ we’re not there yet but we’re getting there”, I don’t think they ever got there to be honest!

Your still listening to those idiots. More fool you. Just do as you need to do and let them shove their levels up their holes.
It’s an absolute jokeshop here in this country at the moment.

screamer · 07-11-2020 09:38AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Your still listening to those idiots. More fool you. Just do as you need to do and let them shove their levels up their holes.
It’s an absolute jokeshop here in this country at the moment.

See the government is listening to them and they will decide whether we get back to any sense of normality for Christmas. So, it doesn’t really matter what I think, they call the shots that affect us all, whether we like it or not

pc7 · 07-11-2020 09:39AM

screamer wrote: »

Good to know, can’t see us reaching those levels in flu season to be very honest.

There’s no flu here yet

Pitch n Putt · 07-11-2020 09:49AM

screamer wrote: »

See the government is listening to them and they will decide whether we get back to any sense of normality for Christmas. So, it doesn’t really matter what I think, they call the shots that affect us all, whether we like it or not

Ah no they don’t really. Mehole Martin Or Tony Hooligan won’t be standing outside my front door or have any input into who I have sitting at MY table for Christmas dinner.
I’ll decide all that for myself and they can piss right off with dictating to people what they can and can’t do.

pjohnson · 07-11-2020 10:04AM

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Ah no they don’t really. Mehole Martin Or Tony Hooligan won’t be standing outside my front door or have any input into who I have sitting at MY table for Christmas dinner.
I’ll decide all that for myself and they can piss right off with dictating to people what they can and can’t do.

I hope you arent one that complains about shops/pubs being closed.

is_that_so · 07-11-2020 10:44AM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

US colleges have reported more than a quarter million coronavirus infections

But, but, but... we are told that Universities are not a problem !

No we haven't, schools are believed to be a lower risk, universities are full of young adults behaving badly!

mandrake04 · 07-11-2020 10:45AM

Suncorp Stadium Brisbane atm

is_that_so · 07-11-2020 10:46AM

DOCARCH wrote: »

They said before between 50 and 100 cases a day.

They also said Dec 1. If the two don't line up what will they do?

niallo27 · 07-11-2020 10:51AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Suncorp Stadium Brisbane atm

They had fans back at a game in Scotland yesterday as well.

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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