Trump vs Biden 2020, And the winner is.......... (pt 4) Read OP

Call Me Jimmy · 05-11-2020 04:17PM

Overheal wrote: »

With 16 electoral votes, if Georgia goes to Biden, Trump can have Arizona all day. It won't matter. That would put Biden at 269 Electoral votes, the EC would be a tie and the House (led by Democrats) would decide the election in January.

Correct if I'm wrong but I thought it was done by state in the house, i.e. votes per state not per member?

Penn · 05-11-2020 04:17PM

biko wrote: »

So, is the electoral college still bad thing?

Considering Biden is almost 4million votes ahead but Trump could still win the election.... Yeah.

Overheal · 05-11-2020 04:17PM

biko wrote: »

So, is the electoral college still bad thing?

The Electoral College is the only reason we are still having this conversation.

Biden is ahead nationally by 3,692,260 votes (+2.6%)

froog · 05-11-2020 04:18PM

biko wrote: »

So, is the electoral college still bad thing?

well it's definitely more entertaining, that's for sure.

Quin_Dub · 05-11-2020 04:18PM

biko wrote: »

So, is the electoral college still bad thing?

In it's current form - Yes.

I totally understand the need for each state to have a voice and the ability to influence the election , but it's currently out of kilter given the demographic/geographic shifts over the last 20/30 years.

Something has to change to make it more equitable for the actual people rather than the monolithic "States"

Tchaikovsky · 05-11-2020 04:18PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I always visualise Trump in a room with 10 telly's, all on 10 different stations, watching all of the coverage of himself all at once

A bit like Lex Luthor

Or when Mr Burns goes mad and is wearing cardboard boxes on his feet.

Overheal · 05-11-2020 04:19PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Correct if I'm wrong but I thought it was done by state in the house, i.e. votes per state not per member?

"If the votes go to the House, states will vote as units. What that means: All of the House members from one state come together and vote, like their own mini state. Each delegation gets one vote."

You'd have to drill into the math of which state delegations will be decided by Republicans or Democrats.

namloc1980 · 05-11-2020 04:20PM

Overheal wrote: »

"If the votes go to the House, states will vote as units. What that means: All of the House members from one state come together and vote, like their own mini state. Each delegation gets one vote."

You'd have to drill into the math of which state delegations will be decided by Republicans or Democrats.

Republicans hold majority in more state delegations.

super_furry · 05-11-2020 04:21PM

biko wrote: »

So, is the electoral college still bad thing?

Shockingly bad. An appallingly broken relic of a bygone era.

LuckyLloyd · 05-11-2020 04:21PM

flazio wrote: »

What's the situation with Winsconson(10)?
CNN and others have called it for Biden but the BBC say their sources reckon it's still too close to call and therefore the BBC have Biden still at 243 instead of 253. Honestly I want Biden to get through but I'm reluctant to believe it'll happen until I see him on the steps holding the Bible.

BBC are wrong on this, completely wrong.

There were approx 600 votes not counted as of yesterday morning central time, but the count was effectively completed in terms of what they they need to count. Trump is entitled to ask for a recount so long as he pays for it. But that recount won't start until after the official certification of the results. The certification process starts now and involves the official reporting of each county in the state to the central secretary, who then totals it up and provides the official count.

This may be confusing for people, but BBC should understand the process better. In terms of the count and the results that feeds to the press via the Edison systems, this is done. There are no more votes to be counted, a clear 20k result is in place. Trump can request a recount, but the state should be projected for Biden. No recount has ever found more than a few hundred votes in the difference.

Cordell · 05-11-2020 04:22PM

https://twitter.com/Timdoutre/status/1324299839140605953

donfers · 05-11-2020 04:22PM

the braver networks should call georgia for biden in the next 1 - 2 hours, then you can all pop your bottles

y0ssar1an22 · 05-11-2020 04:26PM

super_furry wrote: »

Shockingly bad. An appallingly broken relic of a bygone era.

its hard to agree with it when you can win the election with 23% of the popular vote.

as far as i am aware, when states (with a total of 270 EC votes) vote to change it, it will be changed. there are already a bunch that have ratified that, they are just waiting on a few more.

at about 23 mins in:

paleoperson · 05-11-2020 04:28PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

its hard to agree with it when you can win the election with 23% of the popular vote.

as far as i am aware, when states (with a total of 270 EC votes) vote to change it, it will be changed. there are already a bunch that have ratified that, they are just waiting on a few more.

The electoral college makes a lot of sense.

And no, posting your meme youtuber won't make your argument look good and people aren't going to go to it.

hmmm · 05-11-2020 04:31PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Any guesses as to what he "really means" this time? Because it looks to me like he's outright calling for legitimate votes to be thrown out.

It's a cry of rage similar to a toddler when they can't get something they want. I doubt he knows what he wants other than to not lose.

It's his family and minions who are running around trying to make him happy which are the really dangerous ones.

DrumSteve · 05-11-2020 04:31PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Earlier people were saying that he just meant voting should stop and of course he isn't saying that legitimate votes coming in after election day shouldn't be counted. Well, he's saying it now:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324368202139357186

Any guesses as to what he "really means" this time? Because it looks to me like he's outright calling for legitimate votes to be thrown out.

Jesus, he's some bollocks.

gmisk · 05-11-2020 04:32PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Earlier people were saying that he just meant voting should stop and of course he isn't saying that legitimate votes coming in after election day shouldn't be counted. Well, he's saying it now:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1324368202139357186

Any guesses as to what he "really means" this time? Because it looks to me like he's outright calling for legitimate votes to be thrown out.

He is becoming more like Veruca Salt every day.
Continues to embarrass himself, zero humility or self awareness, can't say I am shocked

DeanAustin · 05-11-2020 04:33PM

Assuming he wins, I can’t wait to see how Biden refers to Trump in his victory speech. Usually, the winner will say something nice about the previous person/challenger and their character. I’m not sure that Biden will be able to do that with any degree of credibility.

namloc1980 · 05-11-2020 04:33PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Jesus, he's some bollocks.

He's absolutely pathetic. Unbelievable there are people who support this behaviour.

Boggles · 05-11-2020 04:33PM

Melania is in the bunker with Barron.

Daddy is upstairs chomping down on McDonalds throwing random shít at aides.

y0ssar1an22 · 05-11-2020 04:34PM

paleoperson wrote: »

The electoral college makes a lot of sense.

And no, posting your meme youtuber won't make your argument look good and people aren't going to go to it.

did you even read my post?

it was referencing how the electoral college is nearly gone.

hatrickpatrick · 05-11-2020 04:34PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In it's current form - Yes.

I totally understand the need for each state to have a voice and the ability to influence the election , but it's currently out of kilter given the demographic/geographic shifts over the last 20/30 years.

Something has to change to make it more equitable for the actual people rather than the monolithic "States"

The real problem with the electoral college is one which doesn't in my view get talked about nearly enough - the "winner takes all" paradigm which exists in almost every state. That's the real reason the college is such a mess. Take Pennsylvania for example - it has 20 votes at the federal EC level. The issue is that if either Trump or Biden gets 50.5% of the vote to the other candidate's 49.5% of the vote, all 20 of those EC votes go to that candidate.

This is absolutely mental. It's First Past The Post on steroids, and is the real reason American presidential elections are such sh!tshows.

The idea of weighting different states so as entire swathes of the country aren't irrelevant at election time is actually a great idea, IMO, but by making it winner takes all, they've made large swathes of the country irrelevant at election time anyway, just via different criteria. That's what gives rise to the whole idea of "safe states" vs "swing states", where some people can cast votes which have no effect whatsoever on the election's outcome even if their votes mean, as stated above, that their preferred candidate gets 49.5% of the vote. Those voices go entirely unheard when the electoral college votes are divvied up.

Two states, Maine and Nebraska, aware their votes by congressional district, which is somewhat better than the usual winner takes all system but it's still very, very far from representative - for example, right now, Nebraska is roughly 60/40 in favour of Trump. It has five electoral college votes. Under any sane system, this would grant Trump three votes and Biden two, but because it's done by congressional district instead, Trump has four votes and Biden only has one.

In my view this is the central issue which needs reform, and would be a perfect compromise between those who feel that the national popular vote should be used, and those who still feel that different states should be weighted in order to avoid urban areas controlling the entire government and rural areas being shut out entirely from executive politics.

To be honest, in my view this is all symptomatic of a much bigger issue - the United States is simply too large a country to be adequately governed by a federal government. Political views and culture are too diverse. Even without the FPTP system, in my view you're asking a handful of people to control the lives of far, far too many others. No one is ever going to be truly happy with their government under those circumstances - indeed, it's one of the reasons I've always opposed any further centralisation of power towards the EU and away from national member states' governments. The larger a group of people a government is in charge of, the more each person's influence is diluted to the point of irrelevance. When people feel irrelevant in a democratic system, that's when the trouble begins.

In short, Gigantic blocks such as the US are simply a bad idea in democratic terms. They inevitably give rise to the kind of problems we're seeing, when one attempts to squeeze such a ridiculously large breadth of political and social cultures into a box in which they can be treated as one.

Ashbourne hoop · 05-11-2020 04:34PM

is_that_so wrote: »

About 400K but a lot of big Dem areas.

Boggles wrote: »

Melania is in the bunker with Barron.

Daddy is upstairs chomping down on McDonalds throwing random shít at aids.

Maybe he thinks it'll cure it....

cnocbui · 05-11-2020 04:35PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

is that in total or just afganistan?

Afghanistan, but if you are fishing for a win on the big picture, you are going home with an empty basket:

The United States has dropped a record number of bombs on the Middle East, roughly 10 percent more under Trump than his predecessor. The U.S. strategy against ISIS is now defined by "annihilation tactics," Defense Secretary James Mattis recently said.

For Trump, 2017 has already been an explosive year: The U.S. has said it dropped over 2,400 bombs on Afghanistan, up from 1,337 last year. In the fight against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, the U.S. has already dropped 32,801 bombs, compared with 30,743 in 2016. And the U.S. has also conducted more than 100 strikes against Al Qaeda in Yemen in 2017, compared with 38 in 2016.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-era-record-number-bombs-dropped-middle-east-667505

Now imagine adding another 3 years of ordnance and strikes to that.

In 2020, ‘Antiwar’ Trump Launched More Airstrikes on Somalia Than Bush & Obama COMBINED

Matt Agorist November 2, 2020

Larbre34 · 05-11-2020 04:36PM

The electoral college is a relic of the pre technology age. But it'll never be got rid of, because Republicans know they wouldn't see the inside of the White House again for a hundred years.

Smee_Again · 05-11-2020 04:37PM

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

did you even read my post?

it was referencing how the electoral college is nearly gone.

I havent watched the video but any change to the it would agree agreement from 38 states which is very unlikely.

Republicans have only won the popular vote once since Bush Snr, those Republican led states would be mad to abolish it.

quokula · 05-11-2020 04:37PM

hmmm wrote: »

It's a cry of rage similar to a toddler when they can't get something they want. I doubt he knows what he wants other than to not lose.

It's his family and minions who are running around trying to make him happy which are the really dangerous ones.

I think it's more than just a tantrum. He actively encouraged his own voters to come out on election day rather than postal vote. He's been sowing the seeds of doubt in postal voting for weeks. The republicans have been trying to reduce the postal service's capacity to ensure more postal votes arrive late. Republican legislatures in a number of states tweaked counting rules to make sure postal votes got counted last, even if they arrived early.

This has all been premeditated to create the impression that the election has been stolen from him. It may not matter to the actual result (assuming the various judges the republicans have put in place don't completely undermine the rule of law), but it creates a martyrdom narrative that the republicans can carry into 2024 after Biden's spent most of his 4 years cleaning up Trump's mess and the coronavirus aftermath.

robinph · 05-11-2020 04:38PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

Assuming he wins, I can’t wait to see how Biden refers to Trump in his victory speech. Usually, the winner will say something nice about the previous person/challenger and their character. I’m not sure that Biden will be able to do that with any degree of credibility.

Will Trump even turn up for the inauguration?

Can see him making a dash straight for his last flight on AF1 the moment he's no longer president and escaping somewhere. Guaranteed he'll make some comment about how his inauguration crowd was bigger though, even if they end up doing the formalities behind closed doors with no crowds due to Covid19.

DeanAustin · 05-11-2020 04:38PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The real problem with the electoral college is one which doesn't in my view get talked about nearly enough - the "winner takes all" paradigm which exists in almost every state. That's the real reason the college is such a mess. Take Pennsylvania for example - it has 20 votes at the federal EC level. The issue is that if either Trump or Biden gets 50.5% of the vote to the other candidate's 49.5% of the vote, all 20 of those EC votes go to that candidate.

This is absolutely mental. It's First Past The Post on steroids, and is the real reason American presidential elections are such sh!tshows.

The idea of weighting different states so as entire swathes of the country aren't irrelevant at election time is actually a great idea, IMO, but by making it winner takes all, they've made large swathes of the country irrelevant at election time anyway, just via different criteria. That's what gives rise to the whole idea of "safe states" vs "swing states", where some people can cast votes which have no effect whatsoever on the election's outcome even if their votes mean, as stated above, that their preferred candidate gets 49.5% of the vote. Those voices go entirely unheard when the electoral college votes are divvied up.

Two states, Maine and Nebraska, aware their votes by congressional district, which is somewhat better than the usual winner takes all system but it's still very, very far from representative - for example, right now, Nebraska is roughly 60/40 in favour of Trump. It has five electoral college votes. Under any sane system, this would grant Trump three votes and Biden two, but because it's done by congressional district instead, Trump has four votes and Biden only has one.

In my view this is the central issue which needs reform, and would be a perfect compromise between those who feel that the national popular vote should be used, and those who still feel that different states should be weighted in order to avoid urban areas controlling the entire government and rural areas being shut out entirely from executive politics.

To be honest, in my view this is all symptomatic of a much bigger issue - the United States is simply too large a country to be adequately governed by a federal government. Political views and culture are too diverse. Even without the FPTP system, in my view you're asking a handful of people to control the lives of far, far too many others. No one is ever going to be truly happy with their government under those circumstances - indeed, it's one of the reasons I've always opposed any further centralisation of power towards the EU and away from national member states' governments. The larger a group of people a government is in charge of, the more each person's influence is diluted to the point of irrelevance. When people feel irrelevant in a democratic system, that's when the trouble begins.

In short, Gigantic blocks such as the US are simply a bad idea in democratic terms. They inevitably give rise to the kind of problems we're seeing, when one attempts to squeeze such a ridiculously large breadth of political and social cultures into a box in which they can be treated as one.

Very good point. My brother in law is a Republican voter in New York. If he lives to be 100, his vote is never going to count. It's the same in all but a handful of states.

cnocbui · 05-11-2020 04:38PM

Penn wrote: »

Considering Biden is almost 4million votes ahead but Trump could still win the election.... Yeah.

UFOs / Trump - same thing - 'I want to believe.'

Trump vs Biden 2020, And the winner is.......... (pt 4) Read OP

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