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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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Comments

  • #3122
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,532 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

    Here is the opinion of a senior counsel.

    Please don't be arrogant enough just to dismiss it. Can you produce a similarly weighted and considered opposite opinion?

    https://villagemagazine.ie/senior-counsels-opinion-for-village-affirms-being-a-minister-does-not-exclude-you-from-the-obligations-of-the-official-secret-act/


  • #3123
    grayzer75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 979 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

    It's suggested he broke this law by providing a third party with a marked confidential document which WAS NOT in the public domain - the document was amended prior to release.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/act/1/enacted/en/html

    There should be a full investigation relating to this and all the facts considered not just the words of the man at the heart of it.


  • #3124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Nobody can actually say that either way, that's the point Mary. Jesus.

    So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.


  • #3125
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Nobody can actually say that either way, that's the point Mary. Jesus.

    Good man Mc, that's a fair post.


  • #3126
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.

    In your opinion. See how it works?


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  • #3127
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

    Are you still clinging to that defence? If it was in the Public domain then why wasn't Leo's buddy able to get a copy of it, why were the Opposition looking for it, Why did Simon Harris not give the document to Leo's mate when he asked him for it?

    There are so many holes in that excuse but you can continue to believe it.


  • #3128
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭celt262


    Where is all the outrage on Facebook over this i haven't seen anyone calling for Leo's head compared to what we have seen about others lately.

    Are the shinners not shouting from the rooftops?


  • #3129
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    By his actions, he broke trust left, right and centre and that is in the public domain now. The ordinary citizen doesn't care about legal arguments, they care about what was going on behind their backs, now admitted to by himself and all other politicians as wrongdoing. He is a busted flush from now on, imo, and the defence of him by other politicians has ruined their credibility also. It's like people are saying - ah so we know who you are now Leo.


  • #3130
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.

    "It was a confidential document" - Leo Varadkar 03/11/2020 in Dail Eireann, when asked if, at the time he sent the document, was the document confidential or public information.


  • #3131
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is the opinion of a senior counsel.

    Please don't be arrogant enough just to dismiss it. Can you produce a similarly weighted and considered opposite opinion?

    https://villagemagazine.ie/senior-counsels-opinion-for-village-affirms-being-a-minister-does-not-exclude-you-from-the-obligations-of-the-official-secret-act/

    That opinion doesn’t suggest any law was broken.


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  • #3132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    celt262 wrote: »
    Where is all the outrage on Facebook over this i haven't seen anyone calling for Leo's head compared to what we have seen about others lately.

    Are the shinners not shouting from the rooftops?

    They’ve all moved to Twitter. Become twits, in other words.


  • #3133
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    By his actions, he broke trust left, right and centre and that is in the public domain now. The ordinary citizen doesn't care about legal arguments, they care about what was going on behind their backs, now admitted to by himself and all other politicians as wrongdoing. He is a busted flush from now on, imo, and the defence of him by other politicians has ruined their credibility also. It's like people are saying - ah so we know who you are now Leo.

    The best reason for him to have resigned imo going on what we know so far.
    Breaking trust and getting parliament to defend you for that is the biggest problem this has created.


  • #3134
    celt262
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭celt262


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They’ve all moved to Twitter. Become twits, in other words.

    Cant be bother with that thanks


  • #3135
    DenMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,300 ✭✭✭DenMan


    Fianna Fail's Marc McSharry calling party leader and Taoiseach Michael Martin a disgrace in the Dail last night for his show of support for Varadkar. More implosion it seems!


  • #3136
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    DenMan wrote: »
    Fianna Fail's Marc McSharry calling party leader and Taoiseach Michael Martin a disgrace in the Dail last night for his show of support for Varadkar. More implosion it seems!

    That will be dismissed by government supporters as McSharry is seen as a crack pot.


  • #3137
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Allinall


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If it was 'wrong' then there is no other conclusion that can be reached.

    Why?

    Because if it was 'wrong', then it was a breach. If it wasn't a breach then it wasn't 'wrong'.

    Varadkar is saying it himself and Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion.

    So somebody (Bowes) has made a complaint to The Gardai and somebody else has made one to SIPO and somebody else to the Dáil ethics committee.

    Where is your evidence for this claim?


  • #3138
    stockshares
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭stockshares


    Marc McSharry on Claire Byrne in a few mins after they finish USA review .


  • #3139
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,049 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What law would he have broken? The document was in the public domain.


    Well why the need for leaking it so?
    Asking for a friend.


  • #3140
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,532 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where is your evidence for this claim?

    Irish Times report linked earlier


  • #3141
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,532 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That opinion doesn’t suggest any law was broken.

    It gives an opinion on what laws govern what he did.

    If what he did was by his own admission 'wrong', then he broke the laws defined in that legal opinion.


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  • #3142
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Apart from Leo learning to not trust slimeballs like Matt Tool. Apart from cranks like Chay whathisname being condemned to social welfare for the rest of his life, lets be honest, given that this is such a non-story no one will be buying the book either.

    I do think that an uncomfortable line has been crossed in the pursuit of the head of a politician. For better or for worse, we don't know yet. It is obvious that in behind this non story is a sinister enough attempt by left thinking stakeholders hoping to throw mud at Tánaiste Varadker. Furthermore, this had led to a barrage of online tripe talk from cranks and Twitterites flinging accusation after accusation at their political opponents, it looks nasty all thing considered. Having to Tweet to the world that you are contacting the Gardaí says a lot about what was really going on here.

    I doubt Mary Lou, Pears, O'Brien, or that RAhead from Waterford would be all that comfortable with their private messages getting shared all over the internet, I certainly doubt Aodhán O'Ríordain ( ní Vinny ) would be happy with it either.

    BTW tomorrow is Friday, so I would say you have less than 24 hrs to whip up another outrage before this non story becomes an official non story and gets the proper "witch hunt " label it has warranted since its' inception. Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up. The worm turns and I would hate to be cleaning the bib of half the opposition TD's if the time came around, all things considered.

    At the end of the week it is Leo who comes out with more credit than the rest. At least he stood up and took his punches and is still standing. Hate on him all you like, but he has brought more change to this country in the last ten years than any other politician can stand beside. The only reason he generates so much apathy is because he is a strong politician with a strong message and most importantly is in power to do something about it.

    On a final matter it needs to be said that Sinn Féin need to address their own timewasting on this matter. For starters, whoever thought it was a good idea to attempt this the same week as the US presidential election has made severe error in judgement? Talk about dropping the ball? In fact this is not the first time this has happened this year, not contesting enough general election seats was another. It is indicative of a party that not only does not know how to cross the river, but is in grave danger of drowning if it even got its' feet wet.


  • #3143
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,345 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    From the Fine Gael New Politics document in 2011.
    Fine Gael’s New Politics tackles all of these weaknesses head-on and will restore people’s
    trust in the political process by delivering real, tangible change. The Irish people are rightly
    outraged at the way in which their country has been misgoverned.
    Fine Gael will build a New Republic in Ireland - where trust is restored in our democratic institutions and the concerns of the Citizen,
    rather than the elites, are placed firmly at the centre of government.

    It is aging badly! :D

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #3144
    shatners bassoon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭shatners bassoon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So, as of now, no law has been broken, to the best of anyone’s knowledge.

    This has to be a wind up.

    No, no one can say for certain whether a law has been broken. The same way no one can say for certain whether a murderer committed a crime until the matter is investigated and tried. The fact that we don't know for certain that he's the murderer doesn't mean he hasn't broken the law!


  • #3145
    stockshares
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭stockshares


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who actually said that he broke the law?

    I posted this earlier yesterday.

    When asked by Peadar Toibin did he consider the Doc to be public or confidential Leo said Confidential .

    Video of Q+A. Peadars Qs at 04:48:00
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireach...video-archive/


  • #3146
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Allinall


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Irish Times report linked earlier

    That does not say that

    "Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion."

    which was your claim.

    The Attorney General does not need the permission of An Taoiseach to give an opinion.


  • #3147
    shatners bassoon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭shatners bassoon


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Apart from Leo learning to not trust slimeballs like Matt Tool. Apart from cranks like Chay whathisname being condemned to social welfare for the rest of his life, lets be honest, given that this is such a non-story no one will be buying the book either.

    I do think that an uncomfortable line has been crossed in the pursuit of the head of a politician. For better or for worse, we don't know yet. It is obvious that in behind this non story is a sinister enough attempt by left thinking stakeholders hoping to throw mud at Tánaiste Varadker. Furthermore, this had led to a barrage of online tripe talk from cranks and Twitterites flinging accusation after accusation at their political opponents, it looks nasty all thing considered. Having to Tweet to the world that you are contacting the Gardaí says a lot about what was really going on here.

    I doubt Mary Lou, Pears, O'Brien, or that RAhead from Waterford would be all that comfortable with their private messages getting shared all over the internet, I certainly doubt Aodhán O'Ríordain ( ní Vinny ) would be happy with it either.

    BTW tomorrow is Friday, so I would say you have less than 24 hrs to whip up another outrage before this non story becomes an official non story and gets the proper "witch hunt " label it has warranted since its' inception. Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up. The worm turns and I would hate to be cleaning the bib of half the opposition TD's if the time came around, all things considered.

    At the end of the week it is Leo who comes out with more credit than the rest. At least he stood up and took his punches and is still standing. Hate on him all you like, but he has brought more change to this country in the last ten years than any other politician can stand beside. The only reason he generates so much apathy is because he is a strong politician with a strong message and most importantly is in power to do something about it.

    On a final matter it needs to be said that Sinn Féin need to address their own timewasting on this matter. For starters, whoever thought it was a good idea to attempt this the same week as the US presidential election has made severe error in judgement? Talk about dropping the ball? In fact this is not the first time this has happened this year, not contesting enough general election seats was another. It is indicative of a party that not only does not know how to cross the river, but is in grave danger of drowning if it even got its' feet wet.

    YOUAREINDEEDAMORON


  • #3148
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Threatening TD's with the Gardaí is real guttersnipe stuff, no matter what way you drum it up.

    Paul Murphy will be glad to know he has a poster with such a username offering him solidarity.

    Garda accused of lying about Paul Murphy's actions at Jobstown trial


  • #3149
    WicklaWolf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭WicklaWolf


    stockshares wrote: »
    Marc McSharry on Claire Byrne in a few mins after they finish USA review .

    Has he been on ? Pascal on now.


  • #3150
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    WicklaWolf wrote: »
    Has he been on ? Pascal on now.

    Not yet.


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  • #3151
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,532 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Allinall wrote: »
    That does not say that

    "Michael Martin is refusing to allow anybody with the power to look at it (the Attorney general) give an opinion."

    which was your claim.
    Irish Times wrote:
    ]Taoiseach Micheál Martin has rejected a Sinn Féin call to consult the Attorney General about whether Tánaiste Leo Varadkar broke the law in relation
    The Attorney General does not need the permission of An Taoiseach to give an opinion.

    Can you back this up?


This discussion has been closed.
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