STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

Bass Reeves · 25-10-2020 11:11pm

chooseusername wrote: »

Hi Bass,
I hope you don't mind me asking;
Of the 700 materials , how much was stove and how much for the lining?
Also, where are you based?

Stove was separate it was a pellet stove it was more expensive than the rest of the materials and the labour. I did not realize that Steve price in the stove. A ordinary wood burning stove can cost from 200 to 1500 Euro so its the fitting and parts price you should be looking at

Lintels X2
Concrete board
Cladding X3 sq meters
bag of tile adhesive
Chrome tile trim by 2
liner
vermiculite X2 bags
from pellet stove T-piece, 45 degree piece, end piece 1 meter pipe.
second hand granite plinth
fitting for electrical socket and electrical cable

Bass Reeves · 25-10-2020 11:21pm

5500 wrote: »

Just looking for some thoughts from others, we had a wood burning inset stove fitted back in March. We were told for the first few fires there would be a smell of paint curing and that it would pass. Sure enough it was there but we only had a couple of small fires and it was into the summer then and not used.

Fast forward a few weeks back and we started lighting it again (about 10 fires at this stage) and the smell was still there, but seemed to be getting stronger to the point you couldn't sit in the room and had to open a window to get it out. This all came to a head the other day when the smoke alarm started going off In the room, although no smoke appeared to be visible, the smell appeared stronger than ever.

We rang the installation company, who passed it on to the manufacturers, they in turn sent out an engineer who took the fire apart but couldn't find anything amiss, so they lit the fire to see if the issue would arise which it did.

They think the smell is coming from however the granite surround was fitted to the existing wall, eg glue which is burning when the fire is lit and the surround heats up, and not from the actual stove itself, so are passing back to the installers, but the installers have gone quiet when I've tried contact them since.

We can't light the fire as 1 the smell would give you a headache, its like a strong chemical, and 2 the smoke alarm keeps going off, but im just wondering has anyone else had a similar problem and if it should be an easy fix?

Was the installer provided by the stove supplier or did you hire them separately . If the stove supplier arranged the fitting get back into them

positron · 26-10-2020 8:00am

At 5500 - is there any insulation behind the inset stove, like a ceramic blanket or something like that? I read on another thread about that gassing off like cat piss. I am in the process of installing one myself, so really curious to know what's going on with yours.

26-10-2020 5:34pm

positron wrote: »

At 5500 - is there any insulation behind the inset stove, like a ceramic blanket or something like that? I read on another thread about that gassing off like cat piss. I am in the process of installing one myself, so really curious to know what's going on with yours.

The stove was supplied by the company who installed it so im presuming it wasn't outsourced to a different fitter so to speak.

It was fitted into an existing block fireplace, I'm not aware of any insulation, when the manufacturers guys removed it the other day they didn't mention it.

The smell is like a chemical or burning polystyrene smell, weather its related or not but the only part of the surrounding granite that gets really hot when lit is at the top or the stove (the chimney breast right about this is also too hot to touch but everywhere else is fine) and this seems to be the area where the smell is coming from

corks finest · 26-10-2020 5:57pm

5500 wrote: »

The stove was supplied by the company who installed it so im presuming it wasn't outsourced to a different fitter so to speak.

It was fitted into an existing block fireplace, I'm not aware of any insulation, when the manufacturers guys removed it the other day they didn't mention it.

The smell is like a chemical or burning polystyrene smell, weather its related or not but the only part of the surrounding granite that gets really hot when lit is at the top or the stove (the chimney breast right about this is also too hot to touch but everywhere else is fine) and this seems to be the area where the smell is coming from

That sounds dangerous In the extreme doubt I’d send a solicitors letter accompanying an engineers report looking for refit and costs if they don’t sort it , joe Duffy etc would be interested I reckon and bet you’re not the only dissatisfied customer

Forge83 · 26-10-2020 8:32pm

5500 wrote: »

Just looking for some thoughts from others, we had a wood burning inset stove fitted back in March. We were told for the first few fires there would be a smell of paint curing and that it would pass. Sure enough it was there but we only had a couple of small fires and it was into the summer then and not used.

Fast forward a few weeks back and we started lighting it again (about 10 fires at this stage) and the smell was still there, but seemed to be getting stronger to the point you couldn't sit in the room and had to open a window to get it out. This all came to a head the other day when the smoke alarm started going off In the room, although no smoke appeared to be visible, the smell appeared stronger than ever.

We rang the installation company, who passed it on to the manufacturers, they in turn sent out an engineer who took the fire apart but couldn't find anything amiss, so they lit the fire to see if the issue would arise which it did.

They think the smell is coming from however the granite surround was fitted to the existing wall, eg glue which is burning when the fire is lit and the surround heats up, and not from the actual stove itself, so are passing back to the installers, but the installers have gone quiet when I've tried contact them since.

We can't light the fire as 1 the smell would give you a headache, its like a strong chemical, and 2 the smoke alarm keeps going off, but im just wondering has anyone else had a similar problem and if it should be an easy fix?

It could be one of a few things.

1. Rockwool insulation smouldering against the stove or pipe. Some installers are still using rockwool when they shouldn’t be.
Ask the installer if they used Rockwool anywhere in the installation.

2. Old Creosote build up in chimney which is now being burnt by the heat from the stove. Have seen it occur badly on chimneys that are lined with stainless liners but not cleaned properly before installation.

3. Silca packets(moisture protection in new products) burning under the ash pan. An unlikely one but have seen it happen.

4. You haven’t burned the stove to a hot enough temperature to fully cure it.

5. A non suitable heat resistant silicone was used instead of the correct fire cement. This would also smoulder like the rockwool. Ask them what they used,

26-10-2020 9:58pm

Thanks for all the above, I'll go chasing the fitters again tomorrow and put some of the above to them and hopefully get to the bottom of it, I'll update when I do

stevek93 · 29-10-2020 11:30am

Hi all,

Can I burn coal in this stove? the installer suggested not to burn coal, I have smoky coal.

I have never had a stove open fire for as long as I can remember, with the open fire I do be shovelling in the coal as if it was a steam train

but with the stove is different I'd imagine.

https://www.waterfordstanley.com/stoves/stanley-stoves/room-heating/solid-fuel/oscar-stove

Bass Reeves · 29-10-2020 11:39am

stevek93 wrote: »

Hi all,

Can I burn coal in this stove? the installer suggested not to burn coal, I have smoky coal.

I have never had a stove open fire for as long as I can remember, with the open fire I do be shovelling in the coal as if it was a steam train but with the stove is different I'd imagine.

https://www.waterfordstanley.com/stoves/stanley-stoves/room-heating/solid-fuel/oscar-stove

The problem with burning smokey coal in these stoves they burn too hot. You tend to burn out grates and fire blocks. If you have some left over use it sparsely maybe a small shovel when starting. But if you shovel it in you will burn out and warp grates and have to buy replacement.

I have a big old Eirn and use a shovel of nuggets when starting it to get the heat going. 12X40 kg bags do me two years.

stevek93 · 29-10-2020 12:06pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The problem with burning smokey coal in these stoves they burn too hot. You tend to burn out grates and fire blocks. If you have some left over use it sparsely maybe a small shovel when starting. But if you shovel it in you will burn out and warp grates and have to buy replacement.

I have a big old Eirn and use a shovel of nuggets when starting it to get the heat going. 12X40 kg bags do me two years.

Thanks, yes that was the issue I had after a winter of lighting the open fire I brunt out the grate, that is fine I suppose it can be replaced once I don't damage the stove itself but then it can get expensive.

Wow, I would use that and probably half again with the open fire. :eek:

Bass Reeves · 29-10-2020 12:57pm

stevek93 wrote: »

Thanks, yes that was the issue I had after a winter of lighting the open fire I brunt out the grate, that is fine I suppose it can be replaced once I don't damage the stove itself but then it can get expensive.

Wow, I would use that and probably half again with the open fire. :eek:

I burn wood with it. But the Eirn is a large stove it about 6KW to room and 13KW to radiators. Using mostly wood reduces the the output. You be surprised at how little fuel you will use now compared to before. When using wood if buying in bulk try to buy it a year before you burn it. A stove is 70%+ efficient compare to an open fire being 10-20% efficient.

upupup · 29-10-2020 4:03pm

stevek93 wrote: »

Hi all,

Can I burn coal in this stove? the installer suggested not to burn coal, I have smoky coal.

I have never had a stove open fire for as long as I can remember, with the open fire I do be shovelling in the coal as if it was a steam train but with the stove is different I'd imagine.

https://www.waterfordstanley.com/stoves/stanley-stoves/room-heating/solid-fuel/oscar-stove

I had a stanley oisin which is similar to that one.I burned only smoky coal for about 5 years and the grate was still fine.I only changed it because I wanted a boiler stove.I think stanley have a better quality grate.Grates and firebricks are easily relaced if they burn out but you will def get a few years before any of that happens

jonny_b · 29-10-2020 8:01pm

Hi I am wondering if I can burn peat briquettes in a kratki antek deco 10kw stove insert. All I seem to find online is I can burn seasoned hardwood and brown coal briquettes, nothing about peat briquettes

04-11-2020 5:14pm

Forge83 wrote: »

It could be one of a few things.

1. Rockwool insulation smouldering against the stove or pipe. Some installers are still using rockwool when they shouldn’t be.
Ask the installer if they used Rockwool anywhere in the installation.

2. Old Creosote build up in chimney which is now being burnt by the heat from the stove. Have seen it occur badly on chimneys that are lined with stainless liners but not cleaned properly before installation.

3. Silca packets(moisture protection in new products) burning under the ash pan. An unlikely one but have seen it happen.

4. You haven’t burned the stove to a hot enough temperature to fully cure it.

5. A non suitable heat resistant silicone was used instead of the correct fire cement. This would also smoulder like the rockwool. Ask them what they used,

Just to update on this, I had the manufacturers out again looking at the stove. They were putting the smell down to how the outer granite surround was attached on the top of the stove, they removed it and there appeared to be a silicone substance that wasnt high temp in the middle which was the hottest spot, so they assumed this was melting under high heat and causing the smell

They then went on to light the fire, awhile after being lit when up to temp the smell started again, the second suggestion was that it may still be paint curing (bearing in mind its over 15 fires now, while not many blazers as such, its been kept running for a good 6/8 hours some days) and to just keep the fire burning hot for the day.
Soon afterwards though the smoke alarms started going off whist they were still there, so they said to let it go out and they would come up with another solution as they have never come across the smell before.

I believe they are now going to come out and replace the inner fire box of the fire, and take a look up the chimney to see if it was properly cleaned before being lined, as they suggested there could be something smouldering against the liner and the fumes coming back down, but its getting to the point where Im loosing patience with it, as the whole house is left stinking now with alarms going crazy for about an hour after they are gone.

I asked was any rockwool used as it looked like some was placed on the top of the stove, they said its fine to use as its not combustible, but should I say to them to get it out?

I also heard one of the guys mention a ceramic blanked is on the stove too, although as another poster mentioned the smell wouldn't be anything like catpi$$, its like melting plastic. One of the guys tried to say it could be the paint on the fireplace, but its only painted a month ago (water based emulsion) and the smell was there before that, so they could be clutching at straws.

Any other guesses to throw in the mix? Should I be looking for them to just remove and replace the whole thing at this point, or just ask for the insulation to be taken out with the box being changed and see if that solves it?

chris_ie · 04-11-2020 5:55pm

Had started a new thread and just spotted this for stove questions.....oops.

We're currently using a Stanley Erin stove with a back boiler. We've always burnt coal, but its a pain in the a** with the coal dust etc.

I had thought about switching to wood in the past but I've always thought that coal would burn much hotter (better for heating room and back boiler) and also burn much longer. I figured wood would burn too fast and we'd be through a fortune of it in not time, costing more money.

Is there a specific type of wood and moisture content I should be looking at?

What are others' experiences when switching from coal to wood?

I'm tempted to try an order of wood, if I can get someone local, to see how we get on.

Forge83 · 04-11-2020 7:07pm

5500 wrote: »

Just to update on this, I had the manufacturers out again looking at the stove. They were putting the smell down to how the outer granite surround was attached on the top of the stove, they removed it and there appeared to be a silicone substance that wasnt high temp in the middle which was the hottest spot, so they assumed this was melting under high heat and causing the smell

They then went on to light the fire, awhile after being lit when up to temp the smell started again, the second suggestion was that it may still be paint curing (bearing in mind its over 15 fires now, while not many blazers as such, its been kept running for a good 6/8 hours some days) and to just keep the fire burning hot for the day.
Soon afterwards though the smoke alarms started going off whist they were still there, so they said to let it go out and they would come up with another solution as they have never come across the smell before.

I believe they are now going to come out and replace the inner fire box of the fire, and take a look up the chimney to see if it was properly cleaned before being lined, as they suggested there could be something smouldering against the liner and the fumes coming back down, but its getting to the point where Im loosing patience with it, as the whole house is left stinking now with alarms going crazy for about an hour after they are gone.

I asked was any rockwool used as it looked like some was placed on the top of the stove, they said its fine to use as its not combustible, but should I say to them to get it out?

I also heard one of the guys mention a ceramic blanked is on the stove too, although as another poster mentioned the smell wouldn't be anything like catpi$$, its like melting plastic. One of the guys tried to say it could be the paint on the fireplace, but its only painted a month ago (water based emulsion) and the smell was there before that, so they could be clutching at straws.

Any other guesses to throw in the mix? Should I be looking for them to just remove and replace the whole thing at this point, or just ask for the insulation to be taken out with the box being changed and see if that solves it?

If there’s rockwool used, ask them to remove it. Ceramic blanket is a different material and totally fine.

How can they check the chimney now? Is it not backfilled with vermiculite insulation?

Birdie Num Num · 04-11-2020 7:32pm

5500 wrote: »

Just looking for some thoughts from others, we had a wood burning inset stove fitted back in March. We were told for the first few fires there would be a smell of paint curing and that it would pass. Sure enough it was there but we only had a couple of small fires and it was into the summer then and not used.

Fast forward a few weeks back and we started lighting it again (about 10 fires at this stage) and the smell was still there, but seemed to be getting stronger to the point you couldn't sit in the room and had to open a window to get it out. This all came to a head the other day when the smoke alarm started going off In the room, although no smoke appeared to be visible, the smell appeared stronger than ever.

We rang the installation company, who passed it on to the manufacturers, they in turn sent out an engineer who took the fire apart but couldn't find anything amiss, so they lit the fire to see if the issue would arise which it did.

They think the smell is coming from however the granite surround was fitted to the existing wall, eg glue which is burning when the fire is lit and the surround heats up, and not from the actual stove itself, so are passing back to the installers, but the installers have gone quiet when I've tried contact them since.

We can't light the fire as 1 the smell would give you a headache, its like a strong chemical, and 2 the smoke alarm keeps going off, but im just wondering has anyone else had a similar problem and if it should be an easy fix?

Have exactly the same problem. Except the smoke alarms don’t go off. The smoke alarms going off would suggest there is smoke releasing somewhere. I’ve had mine fitted a few years now and the smell is still an issue. Not sure if it’s from something surrounding the stove. I fitted a type of fire resistant cement board behind it and painted it and not sure if that’s the issue. Think I used a suitable heat resistant paint. Also the fire cement around the base of the flue where it connects to the stove has since cracked. Not sure if either these are the issue. Definitely no smoke escaping, just a smell after the stove heats up as it did on the first day of using it.

positron · 04-11-2020 10:52pm

Forge83 wrote: »

If there’s rockwool used, ask them to remove it. Ceramic blanket is a different material and totally fine.

I am currently DIY'ing a gas cassette stove with ceramic blanket around it - it's just in the wall today, waiting for gas guy to come and connect it.

Just wondering if the ceramic blanket can go on top of the stove (as well as the back and sides) - I can't remember if the specialist shop I bought the ceramic blanket said to not to put in on the top or not... something about bonding resin gassing off and the blanket settling onto the stove..

Forge83 · 04-11-2020 11:03pm

positron wrote: »

I am currently DIY'ing a gas cassette stove with ceramic blanket around it - it's just in the wall today, waiting for gas guy to come and connect it.

Just wondering if the ceramic blanket can go on top of the stove (as well as the back and sides) - I can't remember if the specialist shop I bought the ceramic blanket said to not to put in on the top or not... something about bonding resin gassing off and the blanket settling onto the stove..

You would have to check what the stove manual says. I don’t have massive knowledge on gas stoves.

05-11-2020 12:14am

Forge83 wrote: »

If there’s rockwool used, ask them to remove it. Ceramic blanket is a different material and totally fine.

How can they check the chimney now? Is it not backfilled with vermiculite insulation?

I dont actually know, the last they said was they wanted to check up the chimney so we'll see what they make of it, but he also mentioned something about venting the chimney?
I'll ask them to take out the rockwool though.

@Birdie Num Num I'm guessing yours is free standing? Mine is a casette so nothing surrounding really bar brick, but there's no way you could live with this smell every time a fire was lit, even if the alarms weren't going off, I was getting a headache from it the last day it was lit

06-11-2020 1:03pm

Forge83 wrote: »

Is it not backfilled with vermiculite insulation?

So they removed the whole stove, it was back filled with vermiculite but they have removed that too along with the rockwool, they said the vermiculite wasn't needed because the chimney isn't exposed its between two semi d's, but it looked cleaner than they expected.

They put in 2 copper pipes as additional vents at the top of the chimney, and refit the stove, they said there's no residue on the firebox to suggest an issue there so have put the originals all back in.

They said to wait till tomorrow to light it and see how it goes, fingers crossed its finally sorted

Forge83 · 06-11-2020 2:13pm

5500 wrote: »

So they removed the whole stove, it was back filled with vermiculite but they have removed that too along with the rockwool, they said the vermiculite wasn't needed because the chimney isn't exposed its between two semi d's, but it looked cleaner than they expected.

They put in 2 copper pipes as additional vents at the top of the chimney, and refit the stove, they said there's no residue on the firebox to suggest an issue there so have put the originals all back in.

They said to wait till tomorrow to light it and see how it goes, fingers crossed its finally sorted

Fair play to them for standing over the installation. Let us know how it goes.

heldog · 06-11-2020 4:33pm

Hi, does anyone have any knowledge or experience of the Phoenix Ruby insert stove? It looks the same as the Henley Apollo and comes from the same factory apparently but Henley stocks are very slow to come in and the fitter has this one in stock and is recommending it at a cost of 885 for the stove alone. Can find nothing about it online.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Forge83 · 06-11-2020 7:24pm

heldog wrote: »

Hi, does anyone have any knowledge or experience of the Phoenix Ruby insert stove? It looks the same as the Henley Apollo and comes from the same factory apparently but Henley stocks are very slow to come in and the fitter has this one in stock and is recommending it at a cost of 885 for the stove alone. Can find nothing about it online.

Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

More or less the same stove but the price seems a bit steep.
Stocks of everything are scarce at the moment.
What county are you based in?

heldog · 06-11-2020 11:26pm

Thanks a lot for the reply. Good to know that much at least. Based in Dublin. Would you go with that one or the HD Vitae if they were the same price?

Forge83 wrote: »

More or less the same stove but the price seems a bit steep.
Stocks of everything are scarce at the moment.
What county are you based in?

Forge83 · 06-11-2020 11:42pm

heldog wrote: »

Thanks a lot for the reply. Good to know that much at least. Based in Dublin. Would you go with that one or the HD Vitae if they were the same price?

If it’s this Vitae for the same price I would definitely pick the Vitae over the Ruby.
https://www.heatdesign.ie/product/vitae-6kw-cassette-stove/

I know you said Dublin but I would try Fordes Kilcock as they are not too far from you and generally keep good stock of Henleys.

k123456 · 07-11-2020 12:11pm

MOD SNIP
No advertising here please

funkey_monkey · 09-11-2020 11:35pm

I've got a problem with a stove I got installed into a new build.
The manufacturer has asked me to measure the vacuum which should be between 0.5 and 0.8iwg.
I'm struggling to get in an installer in during Covid, so I was thinking if it was not difficult, I could measure this myself.
The stove does not have access in the flue to get the pressure between room and exit. There is a balancer vent in the back of the stove.
Any instructions as to how I could check this? I'm still waiting on a few guys to respond, but I need to get this thing up and running with these dark cold nights.

Edit: just took another look at it and I think this bolt might be the access? See attached image :

Thanks.

Forge83 · 10-11-2020 11:03am

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I've got a problem with a stove I got installed into a new build.
The manufacturer has asked me to measure the vacuum which should be between 0.5 and 0.8iwg.
I'm struggling to get in an installer in during Covid, so I was thinking if it was not difficult, I could measure this myself.
The stove does not have access in the flue to get the pressure between room and exit. There is a balancer vent in the back of the stove.
Any instructions as to how I could check this? I'm still waiting on a few guys to respond, but I need to get this thing up and running with these dark cold nights.

Edit: just took another look at it and I think this bolt might be the access? See attached image :

Thanks.

There will be a top baffle inside the stove that can be removed for access to the flue.

funkey_monkey · 10-11-2020 11:50am

Is that a piece of folded metal sitting at approx 45deg from the back of the stove outwards?
In that case to read the vacuum would you need to have access via front door - is that okay to have door open for the test? I thought for an accurate reading the stove would need to be as it is when in use?

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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