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FBI Thwarts Plot by Militia(s) to Kidnap, Try, Execute Gov. of Michigan

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,950 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sand wrote: »
    How depressing for those guys. They destroyed their lives for nothing.

    They're terrorists. They have agency and now they have to live with the consequences of what they did.

    Somehow, I don't see non-white terrorists getting the same sympathy here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    They're terrorists. They have agency and now they have to live with the consequences of what they did.

    Somehow, I don't see non-white terrorists getting the same sympathy here.

    I don't sympathize with them. I'm laughing at them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,471 ✭✭✭MOH


    Sand wrote: »
    Thanks for reinforcing my point. Despite all the rhetoric and their own political convictions, your analysis of them rests entirely on them being white. I at least am willing to dig a little deeper.

    How depressing for those guys. They destroyed their lives for nothing.

    I'm a bit flattered, but an accurate description is hardly an in-depth analysis.
    They're a miliita, they're terrorists, and they certainly appear to be white.
    Given the latter is the bit you seem to have an issue with, I'm willing to learn where I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that they're not all white? Maybe I should go to Specsavers.

    Agree though, it is so sad that it was all for nothing and they failed in their goal to kidnap and murder elected officials.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sand wrote: »
    One of the suspects, a man named Daniel Harris, attended BLM rallies and gave an interview in June to the Oakland County Times.

    “It is a shame what happened with George Floyd and instances where law enforcement officers murder an unarmed man/woman who isn’t resisting arrest, was complying with the orders is wrong and need to be stopped. You look at photos and videos of news teams and protesters being beaten by riot police when they are there peacefully, you see people losing their eyes because of an officer shoots them with a ‘non-lethal’ round like pepper balls, or rubber bullets,” he said at the time. “I’ve gone through that sort of training and I can promise you weapons like that they can turn into a lethal round.”

    “We went to the BLM protest yesterday in Lake Orion to show our support that everyone’s voice should be heard, no matter the color on your skin. Protesting is important to me because it gives us all a voice to be heard,” he added.


    These guys are antifa/BLM supporters. They should be treated as domestic terrorists on those grounds alone. As I said earlier, how disheartening must it be for them that regardless of their convictions when it comes right down to it all their "allies" see them as is angry white men. There is a lesson there for many.

    So ... huh?

    Anyone who understand Black Lives Matter and is against fascism is a terrorist?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    MOH wrote: »
    I'm a bit flattered, but an accurate description is hardly an in-depth analysis.
    They're a miliita, they're terrorists, and they certainly appear to be white.
    Given the latter is the bit you seem to have an issue with, I'm willing to learn where I'm wrong. Are you suggesting that they're not all white? Maybe I should go to Specsavers.

    It's telling that they're identified by their skin colour, rather than their politics or their goals. I doubt you'd ever have described Osama Bin Laden as a brown terrorist.
    Agree though, it is so sad that it was all for nothing and they failed in their goal to kidnap and murder elected officials.

    I said depressing for them, not sad. I think it's amusing that they put so much effort into their antifa/BLM politics, yet they cant escape being white.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Overheal wrote: »
    So ... huh?

    Anyone who understand Black Lives Matter and is against fascism is a terrorist?

    Antifa arent defined by being opposed to 'fascism'. They're defined by their preference to use violence to achieve their goals. They clearly reject non-violent means as insufficient, so yes anyone who aligns with them is a terrorist. BLM again very clearly both practices violence and supports violence. BLM has inspired numerous murders, assaults, burnings and assorted crimes. No justice, no peace right? So again, terrorists.

    If you can come up with some kafkaesque definition of terrorism that excludes the goal motivated violence of both groups good for you, but I'll call a spade a spade.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Washington Post breaking news, several of the men who plotted to assassinate the Governor were documented attending multiple Trump-endorse anti-lockdown aka. "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" rallies this year:

    S3POV3Q2E4I6XC62QFGKK3QTRM.jpg

    JSCNQ6A2GEI6XC62QFGKK3QTRM.jpg

    M4X5FCQYOUI6XC62QFGKK3QTRM.jpg

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    MQO35RA3SMI6XC62QFGKK3QTRM.jpg

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    Tons of photos and videos available from these events you can imagine. Imagine it will be the morning news as well. Dates highlighted are rallies on April 30, May 14,18,20, Jun 6 and 18.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/11/01/michigan-kidnapping-plot-coronavirus-lockdown-whitmer/?arc404=true&itid=hp_alert
    At events where the men were present, protest organizers, conservative activists and even law enforcement officers told crowds that the governor had grievously infringed on Michiganders’ rights, The Post examination found. Some equated Whitmer’s stay-at-home orders to mass arrests that demanded citizens resist — the kind of language Whitmer has said stoke threats against her.

    At rallies, especially in the spring and early summer, defendants displayed a range of political opinions. One repeatedly promoted positions and slogans of President Trump. Others attended a Black Lives Matter protest and held up signs expressing solidarity over excesses of authority, although some participants said they were disruptive. Still another called himself Libertarian in a live stream from Lansing.

    But the examination also shows that the defendants increasingly came to display patches, insignias and other symbols identified with the “boogaloo” movement, a sometimes violent anti-government ideology that sees a coming civil war and has spread quickly online this year. In one case, an American flag on a defendant’s hat was replaced in June with a boogaloo flag.

    Of the six federally charged in October with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, the Post examination found three — Fox, Ty Garbin and Daniel Harris — who attended protests. Five of the eight men facing state charges — William Null, Michael Null, Joseph Morrison, Paul Bellar and Pete Musico — also were active since April in protests.

    The men either have pleaded not guilty or not yet entered pleas, as prosecutors have sought delays in the cases. The U.S. attorney’s office has filed for an extension until December, saying it needs time to analyze apparent bombmaking materials seized around the times of the arrests.

    The Post placed the defendants at rallies by comparing booking photos and other confirmed images of the men against more than 20 hours of video and hundreds of images from the events. Beyond facial traits, The Post identified distinctive features such as tattoos, name tags and unusual clothing and tactical gear. In every case, The Post identifications were then confirmed by acquaintances of the defendants, including friends, family members, fellow protesters or — for Harris, Musico and Garbin — their lawyers.

    Fox’s public defenders and attorneys for the Nulls did not return multiple emails and phone messages. An attorney for Morrison said he could not comment until he received more information from prosecutors. A series of attorneys representing Bellar as he was extradited to Michigan did not return messages and an attorney listed in court records on his state case did not respond to an email seeking comment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Anything linking these guys to the ones who tried to run Biden’s bus off the road?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    The state of those Call of Duty wank3rs
    Overheal wrote: »

    OFUZG6QYOEI6XC62QFGKK3QTRM.jpg
    Douchebag on the right even has his own name tag :pac: :pac:

    Patriots icon14.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Genuinely fear for the US this week. Godspeed everything goes safely but with the POTUS stoking tensions, I would not hold my breath.

    Think he genuinely fearful of the disclosures that will come out and proceedings that will be initiated against him if he loses the presidency.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,288 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Anything linking these guys to the ones who tried to run Biden’s bus off the road?

    The Texas guys ramming the Biden group were just standard Trump supporters. The guy who claimed credit also 'accidentally' drove into a BLM protest earlier in the year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Anything linking these guys to the ones who tried to run Biden’s bus off the road?

    No and theres not likely to be. These guys operated in the north, primarily in Michigan, somewhat coordinated plans in Ohio iirc (see earlier posts?). The Bus incident was Texas. The man who got into the road rage incident with the SUV was previously in the news for running through a crowd of protesters, and in 2014 was previously arrested for impersonating a police officer, all in Texas.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The suspects in this ‘plot’ are seeking dismissal because of egregious errors from the fbi.

    “Essentially, the evidence here demonstrates egregious overreaching by the government’s agents, and by the informants those agents handled,” he said. “When the government was faced with evidence showing that the defendants had no interest in a kidnapping plot, it refused to accept failure and continued to push its plan.”

    There’s more FBI agents and informants involved than non law enforcement. When does ‘thwarting a plot’ become entrapment? I bet that guy who plead guilty is kicking himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I think we still don't have the full facts yets . But the presence of so many FBI informants thickens the plot here.

    Did FBI Informants Thwart or Encourage the Plot to Kidnap Gretchen Whitmer? | The New Republic

    There was a lot of criticism of FBI stings/entrapments, as facts emerged about some of the post 9/11 "plots": Fake terror plots, paid informants: the tactics of FBI 'entrapment' questioned | FBI | The Guardian



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The fbi informants made up the plot, planned it, pushed it to the defendents, and the defendents refused to take part. And the defendents are on trial.

    It all reminds me of Sinn fein/Ira in the north. It seems like the majority were British agents and informers. Especially the ones that survived



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭maik3n


    I guess perhaps we shouldn't be all that surprised how this turned out

    http://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/04/08/verdict-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot/9512571002/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 293 ✭✭Madeleine Birchfield


    The FBI did the same thing in the 2000s when they fabricated a few terrorist plots and framed a few American Muslims for those plots, then locked those people in Guantanamo Bay, tortured them, and refused to give them a fair trial, which is required according to US law and the US constitution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭NSAman


    FBI are corrupt to the core. Might not be something that is popular to say, but as an organisation they have been part of the problem for years.

    never ever speak to them without a lawyer, no matter how small the questioning.

    i know a little about the case in question, am I surprised at how the FBI have acted? Errr. Nope!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What a twist. The FBI shooting itself in the foot. A shame given the perps apparently fantasized about the crime and even did some preplanning activity but entrapment is entrapment and FBI dragged them across the line they wanted crossed.



  • Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wonder if the Governor of Michigan is angry at the FBI for creating, organizing, financing and overseeing a plot to kidnap her?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'd think so, these don't seem like the kind of people you'd still want out of jail still thinking about crimes against you.



  • Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Has she spoken publicly since the verdict or the plot for the FBI to kidnap her?



  • Posts: 721 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd be more concerned about the FBI and Government overreach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,200 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    this kind of reminds me of the hatchet job done on big sam.

    in the case of sam, should a journalist be allowed to manufacture a hypothetical to see what that person would do? and if completely manufactured, should that person face any consequences?

    similar here. if no crime was gonna be committed but for the fbi encouragement, who is to blame?



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