COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmmzis · 02-11-2020 02:27PM

CureVac's phase 1 press release:

https://www.curevac.com/en/2020/11/02/curevac-reports-positive-interim-phase-1-data-for-its-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-cvncov/

Prime-boost regimen with only 12ug per dose. That's the smallest mRNA dose to be brought to phase 3 so far (Pfizer/BNT is 30ug and Moderna is 100ug). Not much in terms of data in the presser. T cell responses seem to have been induced as well as nAB titers similar to peak plasma titers from recovered people.

plodder · 02-11-2020 03:41PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

Why would you suggest that? Many different types of people (thankfully) take part in clinical trials, there would be no particular reason why you could assume they would be "very responsible conscientious individuals".

It's all speculation but I think the CEO of Pfizer was quoted as saying they might be "more attuned with the science" and really it's not hard to see a possible bias away from the most criminally irresponsible elements, who would have little interest in taking part, and be more likely to engage in risky behaviours.

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 03:47PM

plodder wrote: »

It's all speculation but I think the CEO of Pfizer was quoted as saying they might be "more attuned with the science" and really it's not hard to see a possible bias away from the most criminally irresponsible elements, who would have little interest in taking part, and be more likely to engage in risky behaviours.

"..most criminally irresponsible elements, who would have little interest in taking part, and be more likely to engage in risky behaviours" - Crikey!

Plenty of wealthy, wine drinking, anti-pasta loving 50 yr old+ engaging in 'risky behaviours' (assuming this means socialising) behind closed doors since March. And they're likely to be well informed scientifically too.

There's a lot about SARS-Cov2 that nobody knows about, including Pfizer, maybe there's some holes in the knowledge of transmission, hence the low transmission rates in the trialists.

Either way, as you say, all speculation.

plodder · 02-11-2020 04:10PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

"..most criminally irresponsible elements, who would have little interest in taking part, and be more likely to engage in risky behaviours" - Crikey!

I think you're reading too much into it

But, it's a self selecting group. It isn't a random cross section of society. If it were, it would include a certain number of "criminally irresponsible" types, more likely to catch and spread the virus. And they could be as likely to be over 50 as under 50. I'm not putting the participants on some moral pedestal if that is how it's coming across.

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 04:17PM

plodder wrote: »

I think you're reading too much into it But, it's a self selecting group. It isn't a random cross section of society. If it were, it would include a certain number of "criminally irresponsible" types, more likely to catch and spread the virus. And they could be as likely to be over 50 as under 50. I'm not putting the participants on some moral pedestal if that is how it's coming across.

What is 'criminally irresponsible'? Is it that they don't take care when comitting a crime? Or that they are generally non-carers and more likely to be a criminal? And how would either of those labels be likely to confer a more likely vector for SARS-Cov2 transmission?

Well, yes, you are putting participants on a pedestal (at least it appeared that way), or at minimum, denigrating those that don't take part.

plodder · 02-11-2020 04:23PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

What is 'criminally irresponsible'? Is it that they don't take care when comitting a crime? Or that they are generally non-carers and more likely to be a criminal? And how would either of those labels be likely to confer a more likely vector for SARS-Cov2 transmission?

Well, yes, you are putting participants on a pedestal (at least it appeared that way), or at minimum, denigrating those that don't take part.

Not at all, though I accept "criminally irresponsible" was a flippant choice of words.

Surely, it's not hard to imagine a cohort of people who are self-centred rule breakers (better term maybe) - the type of person who flouts the covid rules because they can, and are almost certainly contributing more than most to the spread. I find it very hard to imagine that type of person signing up for a vaccine trial. That's all.

is_that_so · 02-11-2020 04:46PM

Study of the use of mini-organs or organoids by way of stem cells to study the biology of COVID.

There is an urgent need to create novel models using human disease-relevant cells to study SARS-CoV-2 biology and to facilitate drug screening. As SARS-CoV-2 primarily infects the respiratory tract, we developed a lung organoid model using human pluripotent stem cells (hPSC-LOs).

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2901-9

AAAAAAAAA · 02-11-2020 06:21PM

Hey guys, whats the story with getting tested if you don't have access to a car and therefore can't use a drive-thru?

hmmm · 02-11-2020 06:35PM

Looks like good news. Note in particular this includes people who had "mild" or "asymptomatic" infection which is even better.

https://www.uk-cic.org/news/cellular-immunity-sars-cov-2-found-six-months-non-hospitalised-individuals

"Cellular (T cell) immunity against SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be present within most adults six months after primary infection, a new pre-print on bioRxiv suggests. The research from the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC), Public Health England and Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust demonstrates robust T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 virus peptides at this timepoint in all participants following asymptomatic or mild/moderate COVID-19 infection."

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 06:53PM

hmmm wrote: »

Looks like good news. Note in particular this includes people who had "mild" or "asymptomatic" infection which is even better.

https://www.uk-cic.org/news/cellular-immunity-sars-cov-2-found-six-months-non-hospitalised-individuals

"Cellular (T cell) immunity against SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be present within most adults six months after primary infection, a new pre-print on bioRxiv suggests. The research from the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC), Public Health England and Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust demonstrates robust T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 virus peptides at this timepoint in all participants following asymptomatic or mild/moderate COVID-19 infection."

Well, that is good news, for both immunity through infection and vaccines.

Re-infections then, what's causing the admittedly minuscule amount? The 'most' v 'all' i guess.

Deeper Blue · 02-11-2020 06:57PM

hmmm wrote: »

Looks like good news. Note in particular this includes people who had "mild" or "asymptomatic" infection which is even better.

https://www.uk-cic.org/news/cellular-immunity-sars-cov-2-found-six-months-non-hospitalised-individuals

"Cellular (T cell) immunity against SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be present within most adults six months after primary infection, a new pre-print on bioRxiv suggests. The research from the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC), Public Health England and Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust demonstrates robust T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 virus peptides at this timepoint in all participants following asymptomatic or mild/moderate COVID-19 infection."

That's fantastic news if true.

Thanks for sharing, this is a great thread for info like the above, way too much hyperbole and hysteria in the other threads.

Marhay70 · 02-11-2020 07:18PM

Handy summary of the science behind and progress of some of the leading candidates.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40074728.html

hmmm · 02-11-2020 08:51PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

Well, that is good news, for both immunity through infection and vaccines.

Re-infections then, what's causing the admittedly minuscule amount? The 'most' v 'all' i guess.

The most frequent speculation I read is that like the common cold coronavirus you can probably get re-infected relatively quickly, but a previous infection will help to reduce the likelihood of serious disease. We can do this "naturally" over several decades (with a relatively high mortality), or a vaccine can accelerate the process. I remember at the start of this there were some virologists arguing that we were seeing the birth of a new common cold variant.

Thierry12 · 02-11-2020 10:06PM

https://www.rac1.cat/programes/el-mon/20201102/49160676124/josep-baselga-vacuna-astrazeneca-immunitat-farmaceutica-anticossos-monoclonals.html

Good read

Vice Presidential oncology for Astrazeneca says 3 billion doses ready for distribution in Jan

Vaccine works

People that got Covid already wont need vaccine immediately

Immunity is long lasting, 1-2 years minimum, not 6 months scaremongering stuff.

All positive stuff

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 10:06PM

hmmm wrote: »

The most frequent speculation I read is that like the common cold coronavirus you can probably get re-infected relatively quickly, but a previous infection will help to reduce the likelihood of serious disease. We can do this "naturally" over several decades (with a relatively high mortality), or a vaccine can accelerate the process. I remember at the start of this there were some virologists arguing that we were seeing the birth of a new common cold variant.

IFR in Ireland over the last two weeks was 0.14%. Even the mortality rate is shrinking as we go on, and quickly too.

Either way, this is great news, and even with/without a successful vaccine, the end is coming...

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 10:08PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

https://www.rac1.cat/programes/el-mon/20201102/49160676124/josep-baselga-vacuna-astrazeneca-immunitat-farmaceutica-anticossos-monoclonals.html

Good read

Vice Presidential oncology for Astrazeneca says 3 billion doses ready for distribution in Jan

Vaccine works

People that got Covid already wont need vaccine immediately

Immunity is long lasting, 1-2 years minimum, not 6 months scaremongering stuff.

All positive stuff

Well, even more good stuff...

(How do the know the immunity is long-lasting though?)

Thierry12 · 02-11-2020 10:12PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

Well, even more good stuff...

(How do the know the immunity is long-lasting though?)

He doesn't know for sure but he seems pretty convinced its longer than 6 months

Lets be real, Covid has been around over a year now and reinfections have been rare

Unless you work in a Covid ward without PPE I'd say its almost impossible to get reinfected before 6 months

Hit by lightning odds

holdyerhorses · 02-11-2020 10:14PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

He doesn't know for sure but he seems pretty convinced its longer than 6 months

Lets be real, Covid has been around over a year now and reinfections have been rare

Unless you work in a Covid ward without PPE I'd say its almost impossible to get reinfected before 6 months

Hit by lightning odds

Yes, that's what I was hinting at, immunity seems to be long-lasting except for rare occurances

3xh · 02-11-2020 10:14PM

hmmm wrote: »

Looks like good news. Note in particular this includes people who had "mild" or "asymptomatic" infection which is even better.

https://www.uk-cic.org/news/cellular-immunity-sars-cov-2-found-six-months-non-hospitalised-individuals

"Cellular (T cell) immunity against SARS-CoV-2 is likely to be present within most adults six months after primary infection, a new pre-print on bioRxiv suggests. The research from the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC), Public Health England and Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust demonstrates robust T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 virus peptides at this timepoint in all participants following asymptomatic or mild/moderate COVID-19 infection."

hmmm, did we not read a few months ago that T-cell immunity was coming back as largely non-existent in previous sufferers of Covid? Even after just a few weeks/months after the infection.

It was said that that proved the policy of herd immunity was not a viable option.

Is this something manifestly different we’re hearing about now?

Thierry12 · 02-11-2020 10:28PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

Yes, that's what I was hinting at, immunity seems to be long-lasting except for rare occurances

Yeah definitely has to be long lasting, so little reinfections

One notable was the Russian researcher who tried his best to get reinfected in Covid wards without PPE and he made it over 6 months

Covid has been around more than a year now, had to have been in Wuhan in Oct/Nov or something to get those scenes in December

1 year and we have random stories

ShineOn7 · 02-11-2020 10:35PM

holdyerhorses wrote: »

IFR in Ireland over the last two weeks was 0.14%.

Where did you get that? The most recent worldwide IFR was estimated at .3%

I can't see Ireland being half the estimated world IFR

CIARAN_BOYLE · 02-11-2020 10:40PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

https://www.rac1.cat/programes/el-mon/20201102/49160676124/josep-baselga-vacuna-astrazeneca-immunitat-farmaceutica-anticossos-monoclonals.html

Good read

Vice Presidential oncology for Astrazeneca says 3 billion doses ready for distribution in Jan

Vaccine works

People that got Covid already wont need vaccine immediately

Immunity is long lasting, 1-2 years minimum, not 6 months scaremongering stuff.

All positive stuff

It sounds great but I don't believe the figure of 3 billion.

Surely something is wrong there. If they have 3 billion ready to go surely they have over produced as they won't 3 billion people to take their vaccine if other vaccines will be competing with them and some people just won't take vaccines.

ShineOn7 · 02-11-2020 10:40PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

One notable was the Russian researcher who tried his best to get reinfected in Covid wards without PPE and he made it over 6 months

Feckin' lunatic

Was he relatively young or relatively insane?

NH2013 · 02-11-2020 10:45PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It sounds great but I don't believe the figure of 3 billion.

Surely something is wrong there. If they have 3 billion ready to go surely they have over produced as they won't 3 billion people to take their vaccine if other vaccines will be competing with them and some people just won't take vaccines.

I believe that Oxford is a double injection vaccine so 3b billion would only cover 1.5 billion people with doses. Either way, probably all already accounted for. Don't forget most of these manufacturers have orders to manufacture at risk on the chance other vaccines don't get approval.

A case of better to be looking at it than looking for it.

A very impressive number though, would certainly bode well for a return to some sort of normality within the next 3-4 months.

Hmmzis · 02-11-2020 11:15PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Feckin' lunatic

Was he relatively young or relatively insane?

The latter, he's 69 now.

speckle · 02-11-2020 11:40PM

3xh wrote: »

hmmm, did we not read a few months ago that T-cell immunity was coming back as largely non-existent in previous sufferers of Covid? Even after just a few weeks/months after the infection.

It was said that that proved the policy of herd immunity was not a viable option.

Is this something manifestly different we’re hearing about now?

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200924/Tokyo-citizens-may-have-developed-COVID-19-herd-immunity-say-researchers.aspx

More interesting recent research.

speckle · 02-11-2020 11:43PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

The latter, he's 69 now.

Wow.. would love to have a coversation with him.. might be helpful to myself.. Anymore details on him.. a link?
Edit.. wasnt there some reserch though proposong that HCWs might be reinfected but not know it as their t cell and other immune system responses just deal with it?

Gael23 · 03-11-2020 12:13AM

NH2013 wrote: »

I believe that Oxford is a double injection vaccine so 3b billion would only cover 1.5 billion people with doses. Either way, probably all already accounted for. Don't forget most of these manufacturers have orders to manufacture at risk on the chance other vaccines don't get approval.

A case of better to be looking at it than looking for it.

A very impressive number though, would certainly bode well for a return to some sort of normality within the next 3-4 months.

“Some sort of normality” being the key. I don’t see any way out of this until we see vaccines with sterilising immunity.

3xh · 03-11-2020 12:26AM

speckle wrote: »

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200924/Tokyo-citizens-may-have-developed-COVID-19-herd-immunity-say-researchers.aspx

More interesting recent research.

Yep, thanks for that.

But whilst it backs up the other report seen here today about immunity from naturally acquired Covid, I’m trying to find out what were the reports about earlier in the year where the authors of those reports suggested any immunity from Covid was only weeks long, at best. That contracting Covid gave the person no real benefit.

What has changed that authors of other commissioned reports can now say they’re seeing longer immunity from Covid persons.

It seems a complete about turn and it can’t be based on not enough original data points in the earlier studies.

Thierry12 · 03-11-2020 12:32AM

Gael23 wrote: »

“Some sort of normality” being the key. I don’t see any way out of this until we see vaccines with sterilising immunity.

Why would you need sterilising immunity?

If the worst your gonna get is a bad cold won't that be enough?

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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