Gay man being persistent (I am heterosexual), I'm concerned about a confrontation

zoobizoo · 29-10-2020 10:39AM

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Where are you meeting these men?
Once seems like bad luck but twice makes me wonder.

Is this what victim blaming is?

I was heavily hit on by a man in his 40s while on a family holiday when I was 16. He tried to get me drunk. I was sitting with my dad at the time.

I was hit on again aggressively at a house party when I was 21 I think.

I was politely hit on at a gay club a couple of years after....no problem there.... I politely declined and I explained I was straight. All very friendly and respectful.

Then there was the hostel story that I described earlier.

Maybe rhe OP is a good looking guy and has had a couple of unlucky incidents with some people.

Beechwoodspark · 29-10-2020 11:04AM

The worst I heard was a friend of mine (straight) was out one night with his girlfriend and her gay friends

She encouraged them to feel up my friend and gave out to him for protesting it. Ffs like!

She’s now his ex by the way !!

Beechwoodspark · 29-10-2020 11:08AM

Can you imagine if the genders were reversed in the above situation !!!

LegacyUser · 29-10-2020 12:07PM

Cheers for the responses.

Instead of quoting, let me respond to the main gaps to fill:

- Don't work him (it'd be easier if I did cause I could just report him to management).

When this happens, it's on the street in public typically. He'll actually call from afar to get my attention, things like that.
Then start waving like a love sick puppy.

One day I saw someone waving at me but didn't recognize who so, instinctively waved back but, when I looked and realized who it was, the dude has this horrible deviant sexual grin on his face.

- As to the "tell him you're not gay" advice, you got to understand, deviancy expects this.

Really what I know would be most effective would be what happened previously, report him to an authority figure of some kind, like his boss or law enforcement.

But I'd have to wait until he crosses a more serious line to do that.

I think speaking to his employer is probably the most effective approach, maybe if one more serious'ish incident goes down like he puts his hands on me, one more explicit move etc.

Yeah, I think that's the best thing to do.

- And the comment, why does this keep happening to me?

I have no good answer. I mean, how to explain, ever watch prison film where there's one vulnerable dude who's like, a target for sexual predators?

I'm not physically vulnerable in terms of size etc but, I guess there's something about me that either makes these dudes think I am, and it seems to turn them on?

I've already addressed one such incident with law enforcement, and I was very satisfied with the result (basically no more harassment).

So I guess bringing this to the attention of a higher authority in some capacity vs being direct with the dude (deviant, he expects me to be direct, WANTS that even, cause you know he's got the, as one poster pointed out, "it was only a joke" line prepared).

ManOfMystery · 29-10-2020 12:42PM

It happened me on a night out about a year ago. We were in a group of about 8 work colleagues, one of whom was a junior working for me. He was gay - not that it ever came up, I don't care what persuasion people are. I have gay family members and other gay friends/colleagues. As the night wore on he arranged to meet a few of his personal friends along the way as they were also out and about in that vicinity. To cut a long story short, the groups ended up splitting off as people got more drunk and it ended up with me, 2 other work colleagues and one of my junior guy's personal friends - who was very obviously gay. For reasons known only to himself, he decided to tag along with us, who he'd never met before.

He literally spent the better part of 90 mins in my personal space. If I went to the toilet, he had to go to. If I went to the bar, he walked with me. If I moved to a slightly different standing spot to talk to someone, he moved with me. I'm straight, married and made zero attempts to encourage any of this - in fact, as it went on, I asked him a few times to give me some space. My other colleagues kept making bemused faces at me but no-one wanted to be rude.

Eventually I had enough when he put his arm around my waist and told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn't get his hand off me and stay at least 50 feet out of my personal space, I was going to knock his teeth down his throat. I'm not a violent person and don't particularly like hostility, but I was getting worried at this stage that if he couldn't read the signals, he might make a lunge at me.

As I said, I don't particuarly care what sexual persuasion people are. But there does seem to be a small contingent of gay males who are utterly convinced that some of us straight ones are secretly gay and just need to realise it.

440Hertz · 29-10-2020 01:51PM

It’s not a gay or straight thing. It’s a consent and cop on thing and it’s why universities have pushed out the idea of consent classes.

I’ve been literally stalked by a woman for 3 years, which began in my last year of secondary school and nearly destroyed my undergraduate degree as she started turning up outside lectures, following me to the library and wouldn’t stop no matter what I did. It got to the stage I stopped going to college as I couldn’t avoid her and I started failing modules.

It’s a good few years ago now, but at the time (early 2000s) the authorities were beyond useless, particularly as it was a woman stalking a man. I was even told by various people that I was being inconsiderate as she obviously has mental problems and I was going to cause her a lot of hurt by taking it further legally.

I’ve heard stories from the 1970s about how bad guys were then. One of my relatives was telling me about guys following her around, “making passes” at her and basically behaviour that would get you arrested nowadays.

Unfortunately, some people don’t have much cop on about lines & what’s appropriate or where the limits are. They don’t flirt or seem to understand how social interaction works, so it becomes a pursuit issue instead of a flirting thing.

I mean someone getting flirty is not an issue. They know when they aren’t getting the signals back and drop it. It’s that % who simply don’t get that when someone says no, they mean no.

stargazer 68 · 29-10-2020 01:58PM

Okay Im obviously an idiot here - He tries to make conversation with you, he waves at you in the street and he touched your shoulder?
And you think you will get violent with him if he does it again, you have called him a deviant and you want to report him to someone i.e his boss or the Guards?

Well OP unless you have a bit more than that they will show you the door.

I understand that he makes you uncomfortable but unless there are more serious incidents that you haven't mentioned he just comes across as a friendly guy!

Hannibal_Smith · 29-10-2020 01:59PM

Mod Note

Bertiebomber I've deleted your post. If you have nothing constructive to offer, spare us from your rants.

Thanks

HS

B.A._Baracus · 29-10-2020 02:02PM

Sorry for the long post...
I had an experience like this. I too am straight.

I was 20 years old and was on a night out with people from work. We were all pretty drunk going from pub to pub and we went to the Viper Room on the quays here in Dublin.
We were all outside in little groups chatting before we went in. Some gay older guy comes over to me and starts chatting. I am friendly chatting back but I'm just waiting on my friends. Had no interest in chatting beyond just being polite.

There were taxis parked right beside the pub. So he starts linking arms with me saying "come on home with me.. get into the taxi" as he's trying to pull me into the taxi. I broke away pushed him hard to the ground. Bouncer comes over and says what's going on. I say he's gay and that he was trying to bring me into taxi. Bouncer walks away.

Do I regret it? No.
Would I do things differently today? Yes. As now I wouldn't put it past someone like that to call the guards and get me arrested for assault. Claiming he was being playful. Surprised he did not. But maybe he just realised he crossed a line.

Another thing is when I pushed him he went flying. Luckily for him he tucked his chin so his head didn't smack off the ground. Imagine if he hurt himself - que an ambulance and the guards. If he seriously landed on his head. What? Manslaughter charges over some gay bloke not taking a hint? No thanks.

As for how I would handle it today? I'd raise my voice, let everyone hear how I am not gay, I am not going home with you, now let go of me.... Should he still be at it, I'd grab him force him to let me go.

So op be careful. If you hit him he could be the sort to realise how wrong his ways were with you and that would be that... Or he couldnt dial 999 quick enough. Especially the fact you'll be rejecting his advances to boot (the ego of some)

Making a stink and creating drama is better than being charged.

bertiebomber · 29-10-2020 02:07PM

just shout help sexual harassment happening here !

440Hertz · 29-10-2020 02:08PM

OP, you also suggested you would report him to his employer. If this is occurring outside your workplace, reporting him to an unrelated 3rd party, particularly his employer is an extremely bad idea as you will step straight into slander issues. It’s not a HR issue between colleagues and it’s not occurring in his capacity representing his employer.

There’s a line between someone who is just being overly flirty and someone who isn’t getting the message at all. So sometimes you just have to be extremely direct, firm and blunt, but reacting in anger or threatening isn’t advisable at all.

I would start by just saying: “I think our wires are crossed. I’m not gay and I’m not interested in you like that.”

It’s very possible you’re dealing with someone who isn’t very able to read subtleties.

My advice if someone’s refusing to stop when they’ve clearly had a signal and been told that you’re not interested is:

1) Withdraw from contact with them. Don’t just ignore them but actively avoid contact. Walk away. Move table. Do not engage in any further interaction or conversation.

At the moment, we have no social lives anyway due to COVID-19, so just ignore all electronic communication. The 6 week lockdown might be an excellent cooling off period.

2) If it’s a social media issue, block them & report anything that’s threatening that is breech of T&Cs

3) If it’s a serious and persistent issue, talk to the Gardaí. They’re a lot better at dealing with harassment issues than they used to be.

LegacyUser · 29-10-2020 07:47PM

440Hertz wrote: »

Unfortunately, some people don’t have much cop on about lines & what’s appropriate or where the limits are. They don’t flirt or seem to understand how social interaction works, so it becomes a pursuit issue instead of a flirting thing.

I mean someone getting flirty is not an issue. They know when they aren’t getting the signals back and drop it. It’s that % who simply don’t get that when someone says no, they mean no.

I'm strongly of the opinion this is the issue also.

Basically folk who have some character and are more comfortable expressing themselves and thus interacting etc.

And then folk who have no fluidity to their character what so ever, and they have to be unbecoming/deviant/obscene in terms of how they express themselves.

I've lived with gay dudes in the past and it was completely cool.
One dude made an extremely mild pass at me one time and I laughed it off, he immediately got the message and we went back to hanging out.

It's the dudes that are persistent and creepy, I think they become predatory because they fail at otherwise interacting and expressing themselves, I'd imagine probably frustration subsequently gets the better of them.

It's pretty awful to have to be around.

To the other comment beneath this, I would have nothing to offer law enforcement currently and yes I know, I would get laughed out the door, which is why I said I'd have to wait until he did something more explicit/obscene, which I don't really want the perv to do, frankly.

That's why it's such an awkward situation, and creepy.

So really all I can do is avoid the dude, wait for him to cross the line with something sufficient to report him on, or have a repeat of the situation where he makes uncomfortable moves without crossing the line and I respond with anger (hopefully not violence but, if he didn't come to his senses and quickly get out of my space like he did last time, violence was going to happen).

In fact it was exclusively his sense that I was prepared to engage him violently that caused him to smarten up and scram most recently.

JustAThought · 29-10-2020 10:07PM

DontWantTrouble wrote: »

I'm strongly of the opinion this is the issue also.

Basically folk who have some character and are more comfortable expressing themselves and thus interacting etc.

And then folk who have no fluidity to their character what so ever, and they have to be unbecoming/deviant/obscene in terms of how they express themselves.

I've lived with gay dudes in the past and it was completely cool.
One dude made an extremely mild pass at me one time and I laughed it off, he immediately got the message and we went back to hanging out.

It's the dudes that are persistent and creepy, I think they become predatory because they fail at otherwise interacting and expressing themselves, I'd imagine probably frustration subsequently gets the better of them.

It's pretty awful to have to be around.

To the other comment beneath this, I would have nothing to offer law enforcement currently and yes I know, I would get laughed out the door, which is why I said I'd have to wait until he did something more explicit/obscene, which I don't really want the perv to do, frankly.

That's why it's such an awkward situation, and creepy.

So really all I can do is avoid the dude, wait for him to cross the line with something sufficient to report him on, or have a repeat of the situation where he makes uncomfortable moves without crossing the line and I respond with anger (hopefully not violence but, if he didn't come to his senses and quickly get out of my space like he did last time, violence was going to happen).

In fact it was exclusively his sense that I was prepared to engage him violently that caused him to smarten up and scram most recently.

TBH I think you are far too extreme in your responses and thinking - particularly for someone who has lived and shared a household with gay men. This guy waves to you on the street and has put his hand in a pally way on your shoulder in the street - none of this justifies your extreme conclusions or proposed outcomes. If you attacked this man or tried to destroy him through his work you would more likely find yourself in prison or up on a hate crime or defamation charge.

southstar · 29-10-2020 10:44PM

JustAThought wrote: »

TBH I think you are far too extreme in your responses and thinking - particularly for someone who has lived and shared a household with gay men. This guy waves to you on the street and has put his hand in a pally way on your shoulder in the street - none of this justifies your extreme conclusions or proposed outcomes. If you attacked this man or tried to destroy him through his work you would more likely find yourself in prison or up on a hate crime or defamation charge.

I agree...something doesn't add up here....not sure what exactly..he comes across this guy occasionally outside work/ on street..can't he just ignore him/brush him off/tell him to piss off if necessary... he's not a gogo dancer in The George ffs...I was beginning to wonder.

440Hertz · 29-10-2020 11:04PM

I think you’ve been offered pretty solid advice to just ignore him. If you’re not interested in someone, you’re not interested in them and if they don’t get the message, that’s their problem not yours.

What I’m not understanding is that you don’t work with him, you don’t share a house or any other context which would force you to interact with him, so the obvious solution to this is just walk away from it.

I get that there are obnoxious people out there. I’ve certainly encountered my fair share, but you have repeatedly used the term “deviant” in reference to this guy. It’s a very loaded word and tends to utterly reek of homophobia in that context and you’re talking about violent reactions to someone who, from what you’ve said here, has basically been a bit of a pest, but nothing more serious.

You should be direct with him and explain that you’re not gay and not interested, but I just think you should also look at this in pretty much the same way as you would if an annoying woman you’d no interest in were pushing her luck a bit too far with you.

Unless there’s some significant lines being crossed, like actual stalking, sexual harassment or assault, it is what it is - unwanted flirting and the solution to that is to be firm about your lack of interest and walk away.

Also where someone is giving you unwanted attention, it’s always best to simply withdraw from interaction with them. That is the first and most effective thing you can do.

Macu17ab · 29-10-2020 11:30PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Absolutely. This guy is a creep, pure and simple. He already knows OP isn't interested. Stop being polite OP. 'Don't touch me! I dont want to talk to you. Fuk off!' Same as I (female) would do if a guy was creeping on me.You've been polite, you've dropped the hints. He knows his actions are unwanted and he's doing it in purpose. Call him out.

Bit of a reach coming to that conclusion after he “dropped the hints” - men typically are more direct with these things, and should be.

I’m 90% certain this could be sorted with a chat which you initiate pro-actively so as to avoid an emotional response after he has over-stepped.

Tell him exactly how you feel, and if he oversteps in a physical way, then a relative physical response from you would be warranted i.e a push as a response to him “caressing” your shoulder as opposed to giving him a Batista bomb.

Also, i’m not sure what you are assuming about his capabilities to respond to your desires to act violently, as you seem quite confident when talking about it - but you may want to consider that he could put you on your back(open to interpretation) if you were to escalate things.

Violence is rarely appropriate these days.

Hannibal_Smith · 30-10-2020 09:01AM

Mod Note

OP you've been given excellent advice here if you wish to try resolve your situation. I don't think there is much more that posters can say, other than either speak to the person involved, or avoid them. Violence is not a solution.

I'm going to close the thread there.

Thanks to all who offered help and advice.

HS

Gay man being persistent (I am heterosexual), I'm concerned about a confrontation

Comments