Puppy House Training

josip · 10-10-2020 12:50pm #1

Is it common for a puppy being house trained to get one but not the other?
Early days, but our 10 week old puppy hasn't had a pee accident inside for over a week, always asks to get out, goes in the same place, expects a treat afterwards.
But poo is very hit or miss, will drop it at will inside, goes in different places outside, doesn't expect a treat (although we reward him even more)

cocker5 · 10-10-2020 3:34pm

josip wrote: »

Is it common for a puppy being house trained to get one but not the other?
Early days, but our 10 week old puppy hasn't had a pee accident inside for over a week, always asks to get out, goes in the same place, expects a treat afterwards.
But poo is very hit or miss, will drop it at will inside, goes in different places outside, doesn't expect a treat (although we reward him even more)

At 10 weeks it’s far to early to expect your pup to tell when they want to go out..

You need to be letting your pup out after they play 20 mins after they eat, during the night etc.. when they go outside loads of praise and a treat

tk123 · 10-10-2020 4:46pm

That’s funny OP - I’ve always had the opposite for accidents lol - poos outside and wee’s inside! I used a little bell hanging from the door last time and I’ll be doing it again when we get our pup. Last time I touched Lucy’s nose to the bell before I took her out and she picked it up in no time and would ring the bell to go outside.

Choc Chip · 11-10-2020 4:32am

tk123 wrote: »

That’s funny OP - I’ve always had the opposite for accidents lol - poos outside and wee’s inside! I used a little bell hanging from the door last time and I’ll be doing it again when we get our pup. Last time I touched Lucy’s nose to the bell before I took her out and she picked it up in no time and would ring the bell to go outside.

i've always had the opposite too, i assume cos they poo less often and i can guess when it will happen. On the other hand, they are rewarded far more for peeing outside (cos it happens more) so i can see why they would reasonably learn it quicker.

OP - if you're on a regular feeding schedule, you should start to see a regular poo schedule and get him out well in advance of when he needs to go, then reward loads when he is out there. 10 weeks is no time, you'll get there!

What kind of dog is he? If you have a little dog, they'll need to go a lot more often and might be harder to start seeing routine than a big dog.

josip · 11-10-2020 10:31am

Choc Chip wrote: »

i've always had the opposite too, i assume cos they poo less often and i can guess when it will happen. On the other hand, they are rewarded far more for peeing outside (cos it happens more) so i can see why they would reasonably learn it quicker.

OP - if you're on a regular feeding schedule, you should start to see a regular poo schedule and get him out well in advance of when he needs to go, then reward loads when he is out there. 10 weeks is no time, you'll get there!

What kind of dog is he? If you have a little dog, they'll need to go a lot more often and might be harder to start seeing routine than a big dog.

It's a Pap, doesn't come much smaller

I guess we've been lucky/done well with the pees so that nearly every time we bring him out he pees and gets his reward very often like you say.
It's a self-reinforcing habit at this stage.

With the poos, it's more unpredictable and sometimes we have him outside for 20 minutes and nothing, but he'll go within 3 minutes of coming back in.
And because he's getting rewarded less often for the (outside) poos, he hasn't yet established the connection.

We're on 7, 11, 3 and 7 but sometimes he also double poos after feeding which catches us out.
Early days and we don't have any concerns, just wondering if it was normal for them to get the hang of pees and poos outside at different times.

Choc Chip · 12-10-2020 11:54am

Yeah, it's normal enough. I really wouldn't worry at 10 weeks (I know you're not worrying, just agreeing with you).

I had one who was a double pooper every morning - the older they get, and the more consistent you can keep routine, I think the easier it is to anticipate. So I'd take him out every morning on lead. Reward first poo. Wait for the second poop, then reward again and let him have a run around off lead. I kept him on-lead until he was done so that (a) i was close enough to reward, (b) i knew everything was done (wee and 2 poos), and (c) he didn't just get distracted and go playing until he had done his business.

Let's say if you take them out and they're not going, either wait them out, or take them in and crate or keep a really close eye and try again in 20 minutes. If you let them go off playing and they've not gone outside, they will go inside.

My friend wrote a post about this yesterday if this link works? It covers a lot so might be helpful if there's something there you've not thought of: https://www.facebook.com/adogslifecoaching/photos/a.235232553860943/650177679033093/

I love paps. I want one in the future when i have a smaller dog. We need pictures!!!

fitzparker · 17-10-2020 9:26am

Sorry to highjack, we have a 10 week old Yorkie.

(we have her a week) I would take her out the back to do her business every 90-120 mins and she is getting the hang of it, we can also spot signs when she needs to go, she doesn't like Chewy treats (meaning getting her to eat worm tablet is tough but that is another conversation) so just rewarding her with her usual dry food, I presume she will eventually get bored of this so will pick up biscuit treats for her as it seems like she enjoys "crunchy" type food.

My query is on "crate training"

She took to her crate great, got in straight away and knows its her "comfort zone", im just confused as to what crate training is actually for

Past 6 nights to get used to the house iv been on the couch and she has been in the crate, she goes asleep around 10pm and we lock the crate, she wakes maybe 1-2am and does her business outside. when we get back in I put her in the crate and when locked she then starts to cry, since staying on the couch I now leave the crate door open after first break, she messes about for 20 mins in living room looking for attention which i dont give and then she will go back into crate and sleep usually until 6-7.

Now she is comfortable I want to get into my bed! after her first toilet break should I lock her in the crate again and let her cry it out? or close the living room door, let her mess about (cry) and then she eventually goes back in.

im just not sure what the goal of crate training is.

josip · 17-10-2020 10:58am

fitzparker wrote: »

Sorry to highjack, we have a 10 week old Yorkie.

(we have her a week) I would take her out the back to do her business every 90-120 mins and she is getting the hang of it, we can also spot signs when she needs to go, she doesn't like Chewy treats (meaning getting her to eat worm tablet is tough but that is another conversation) so just rewarding her with her usual dry food, I presume she will eventually get bored of this so will pick up biscuit treats for her as it seems like she enjoys "crunchy" type food.

My query is on "crate training"

She took to her crate great, got in straight away and knows its her "comfort zone", im just confused as to what crate training is actually for

Past 6 nights to get used to the house iv been on the couch and she has been in the crate, she goes asleep around 10pm and we lock the crate, she wakes maybe 1-2am and does her business outside. when we get back in I put her in the crate and when locked she then starts to cry, since staying on the couch I now leave the crate door open after first break, she messes about for 20 mins in living room looking for attention which i dont give and then she will go back into crate and sleep usually until 6-7.

Now she is comfortable I want to get into my bed! after her first toilet break should I lock her in the crate again and let her cry it out? or close the living room door, let her mess about (cry) and then she eventually goes back in.

im just not sure what the goal of crate training is.

Hijackers welcome (Stockholm syndrome)

In my opinion, the purpose of crate training is to make it predictable when the dog will want to pee/poo (during the day time).
It sounds like your dog has already established the crate as their den which is good.
Dogs will be very reluctant to pee/poo in their den and will try to hold it until they are let out.
Using the crate makes it predictable when they will pee/poo and will give you the chance to reward them.

As regards the night time and whining, I also did the sleep downstairs for a few nights.
After a few nights we suspected the dog would whine less if I moved back upstairs, and with ours that proved to be the case.
Within a few minutes of lights out and lying still in bed, the whining stops.

The general advice seems to be that except in very particular circumstances, don't give a whining puppy any attention or you'll end up with a whining dog.
Which seems exactly like what you're doing, so all good there.

volchitsa · 17-10-2020 11:27am

fitzparker wrote: »

Sorry to highjack, we have a 10 week old Yorkie.

(we have her a week) I would take her out the back to do her business every 90-120 mins and she is getting the hang of it, we can also spot signs when she needs to go, she doesn't like Chewy treats (meaning getting her to eat worm tablet is tough but that is another conversation) so just rewarding her with her usual dry food, I presume she will eventually get bored of this so will pick up biscuit treats for her as it seems like she enjoys "crunchy" type food.

My query is on "crate training"

She took to her crate great, got in straight away and knows its her "comfort zone", im just confused as to what crate training is actually for

Past 6 nights to get used to the house iv been on the couch and she has been in the crate, she goes asleep around 10pm and we lock the crate, she wakes maybe 1-2am and does her business outside. when we get back in I put her in the crate and when locked she then starts to cry, since staying on the couch I now leave the crate door open after first break, she messes about for 20 mins in living room looking for attention which i dont give and then she will go back into crate and sleep usually until 6-7.

Now she is comfortable I want to get into my bed! after her first toilet break should I lock her in the crate again and let her cry it out? or close the living room door, let her mess about (cry) and then she eventually goes back in.

im just not sure what the goal of crate training is.

The other thing about crate training, IME, is that you can lock the dog in (for short periods) for any other reason without traumatising them. For instance if you have visitors who are afraid of dogs, or you're staying somewhere with her and you don't want her wandering around for some reason. Or if she has to go to the vet. We take ours on the ferry and if you don't leave them in the car they have to go in the kennels. It's not great anyway, but I'm sure it's much worse for a dog that's never been used to being crated.(we've started leaving her in the car now, she's happier there, but not all dogs are.)

fitzparker · 19-10-2020 9:20am

Thanks All,

last night I left her in the kitchen for the first time locked in the crate, I slept on the couch, she woke at 2am to go toilet, when we came in she had a feed and then I locked her back in the crate, she cried for maybe 3 mins then fell asleep until 7:30.

thanks again, I think I can finally enjoy my own matress again!

Going forward, and I suppose in months or years, when fully "toilet trained" do we still lock them in the crate at night? or is it best to leave the door open to let them roam the kitchen and eat/drink as they please?

josip · 19-10-2020 10:46am

fitzparker wrote: »

Thanks All,

last night I left her in the kitchen for the first time locked in the crate, I slept on the couch, she woke at 2am to go toilet, when we came in she had a feed and then I locked her back in the crate, she cried for maybe 3 mins then fell asleep until 7:30.

thanks again, I think I can finally enjoy my own matress again!

Going forward, and I suppose in months or years, when fully "toilet trained" do we still lock them in the crate at night? or is it best to leave the door open to let them roam the kitchen and eat/drink as they please?

Congratulations, mattresses feel wonderful when you return to them after nights on the sofa.

We used to mind different dogs before we got our own.
One we always locked it in the crate at night whenever we had it. I might have been imagining it, but I always got the feeling it only truly settled when the door was closed for the night.
Another didn't have a crate, just a basket, but we had to sleep on the sofa in the same room as it (owner neglected to tell us this when we agreed to mind it

)
For our own, we plan to leave him locked in every night. He's happy in there, so he's not 'locked in' from his perspective.

About the 2am feed.
Most books/internet sites I've read, say not to feed or interact during the middle of the night break when they're a puppy.
Keep it functional and boring or they might get to like the middle of the night picnic and interaction.
Keeping their bowels empty also avoids any crate accidents which are upsetting for them.

volchitsa · 19-10-2020 1:17pm

fitzparker wrote: »

Thanks All,

last night I left her in the kitchen for the first time locked in the crate, I slept on the couch, she woke at 2am to go toilet, when we came in she had a feed and then I locked her back in the crate, she cried for maybe 3 mins then fell asleep until 7:30.

thanks again, I think I can finally enjoy my own matress again!

Going forward, and I suppose in months or years, when fully "toilet trained" do we still lock them in the crate at night? or is it best to leave the door open to let them roam the kitchen and eat/drink as they please?

IME once you're confident she can hold in all night with no difficulty (which is much sooner than during the day) you can leave the crate open as far as the toilet is concerned. The only issue would be if the room is puppy-proof, but if you've nothing dangerous or too tempting left out at night, there shouldn't be a problem.

We stopped locking the door relatively quickly and had no issues with her - but just to react to the remark by the poster above about the dog who liked to be locked in safely at night, our pupper liked to be "put to bed" a bit like a child: she used to get a bit hyper in the evenings, we'd send her to her crate and she'd go in, settle down and go straight to sleep! She just needed to be told it was bedtime! I think that started while we still closed her in there at night, but it lasted a while. Now she just just chills in her bed in the evenings anyway so we don't really notice when she's awake or not. Except when she dreams, LOL.

volchitsa · 19-10-2020 1:20pm

BY the way, I wouldn't leave food out at night. Water but not food. She doesn't need to eat at 2am unless she's really tiny.

I can't remember for sure at 10 weeks but I think a late night snack before you go to bed and then breakfast early should be plenty.

fitzparker · 19-10-2020 1:47pm

Thanks all, She seems to be comfortable enough with the crate closed so will stick to this as long as possible.

I will start removing the food incase she gets used to it and maybe just show her the water when we come in from out the back, if after a couple seconds she has no interest i'll lock the cage again.

daheff · 23-10-2020 3:08pm

tk123 wrote: »

That’s funny OP - I’ve always had the opposite for accidents lol - poos outside and wee’s inside! I used a little bell hanging from the door last time and I’ll be doing it again when we get our pup. Last time I touched Lucy’s nose to the bell before I took her out and she picked it up in no time and would ring the bell to go outside.

but do they pick it up as just to go outside, or to go to the toilet?

was thinking of something similar, but worried we'll be driven nuts with a dog that just wants out all the time

tk123 · 23-10-2020 3:43pm

daheff wrote: »

but do they pick it up as just to go outside, or to go to the toilet?

was thinking of something similar, but worried we'll be driven nuts with a dog that just wants out all the time

Yes they use it every time they want to go out lol - and in Lucy’s case she’d ring it harder and harder until you let her out :pac: we ended up taking it down but for training it was great - especially if we hadn’t spotted her leaving the room

daheff · 23-10-2020 4:38pm

tk123 wrote: »

Yes they use it every time they want to go out lol - and in Lucy’s case she’d ring it harder and harder until you let her out :pac: we ended up taking it down but for training it was great - especially if we hadn’t spotted her leaving the room

can you link me the bell you got please?

tk123 · 23-10-2020 4:46pm

daheff wrote: »

can you link me the bell you got please?

Oh it was just a couple of bells I think from a Christmas decoration

I just hung it from a hook on the door frame at nose height. We didn't put in on the door handle because we knew it'd drive us mad if it was ringing every time the humans opened the door too lol. Wait until after halloween and I'm sure the decorations will be everywhere and you'll find something with bells.

fitzparker · 19-11-2020 9:30am

Hi All,

little update a month on, so the sleeping now is fine, she usually sleeps through the night, odd time she wakes and whines id go down and give her a quick rub and put her back in the crate. We now leave it open for her at night so she can get a drink, go on the mat etc

Now she wont go toilet outside, I would bring her on walks sometimes she is outside up to an hour and will hold it in, as soon as she comes back she goes on the mat, very rare she goes outside if she does its a poo

we leave the back door open and she loves being out the back, but rarely goes toilet outside.

can I turn this around or are we stuck with a princess

josip · 19-11-2020 10:23am

fitzparker wrote: »

Hi All,

little update a month on, so the sleeping now is fine, she usually sleeps through the night, odd time she wakes and whines id go down and give her a quick rub and put her back in the crate. We now leave it open for her at night so she can get a drink, go on the mat etc

Now she wont go toilet outside, I would bring her on walks sometimes she is outside up to an hour and will hold it in, as soon as she comes back she goes on the mat, very rare she goes outside if she does its a poo

we leave the back door open and she loves being out the back, but rarely goes toilet outside.

can I turn this around or are we stuck with a princess

Have you put the pee pad outside?

tk123 · 19-11-2020 10:29am

fitzparker wrote: »

can I turn this around or are we stuck with a princess

Either throw the mat out of if you're attached to it clean it with eg bio washing powder to break down the enzymes. We had one problem mat when we we training Lucy - we threw it out lol :pac:

josip · 19-11-2020 10:39am

tk123 wrote: »

Either throw the mat out of if you're attached to it clean it with eg bio washing powder to break down the enzymes. We had one problem mat when we we training Lucy - we threw it out lol :pac:

I thought when the OP said 'mat' they meant the pee pad, not a door mat?

cocker5 · 19-11-2020 10:44am

fitzparker wrote: »

Hi All,

little update a month on, so the sleeping now is fine, she usually sleeps through the night, odd time she wakes and whines id go down and give her a quick rub and put her back in the crate. We now leave it open for her at night so she can get a drink, go on the mat etc

Now she wont go toilet outside, I would bring her on walks sometimes she is outside up to an hour and will hold it in, as soon as she comes back she goes on the mat, very rare she goes outside if she does its a poo

we leave the back door open and she loves being out the back, but rarely goes toilet outside.

can I turn this around or are we stuck with a princess

When you say ‘go on the mat’ - I’m assuming you mean puppy pads etc?

If that is the case OP you don’t have a princess you have trained her to go on the mat inside .. and not outside - remove the mat straight away - placed outside the back for a day then bin it. Puppy pads are confusing to pups .. get rid ASAP

If she can’t hold it over night you need to get up once and put her out for her wees

tk123 · 19-11-2020 10:50am

josip wrote: »

I thought when the OP said 'mat' they meant the pee pad, not a door mat?

Oh I assumed mat because I wouldn't use puppy pads to train a pup lol :pac: If it's a puppy pad I stand by my throw it out comment.

fitzparker · 19-11-2020 12:29pm

Sorry all, yes puppy pad.

maybe I will start again with her, lock the crate at night and when she cries bring her out and see what happens.

she seems to be pretty good at holding it in at night, usually she goes 6-7 hours.

ill put the pad out today so she can get the feel of going outside again then get rid of them

whitelightrider · 24-11-2020 8:29am

Im reading through all of these posts trying to get as many tips and tricks before our puppy arrives in a few weeks. Keep them coming

Puppy House Training

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