Third Secretary & Development Specialist Campaign 2020

exitstageleft wrote: »

With that in mind, does anyone have any insights into the "development specialist" role being offered this time around?
Will it be fairly similar to the traditional Third Secretary or quite different?
Are people going to apply for both?

I think it definitely seems interesting but I wonder if it might like future progress.

The DSO role is basically Third Sec but for Development stream.

So for the Devleopment stream it will be Development Specialist Officer --- Development Specialist ---- Senior Development Specialist.

For the diplomatic steam it remains TS - FS - Counsellor.

The streams are equivalent, but not interchangeable, so whichever you become you won't be able to transfer across (unless you do another open comp).

exitstageleft wrote: »

Thanks Hartshat.

I wonder which stream is bigger? I'd imagine the more traditional Third Secretary route. In that case, might there be more positions available for Third Secretaries rather than development specialist officers?

I suppose it's a moot point now (you can select both) but they will surely ask people to choose one or the other at some point in the application process.

The diplomatic stream is bigger as most of our mission are non-development (obviously).

However, there are already over 100 TS in the Dept. There are 0 DSO, as its a new grade.

Therefore it is hard to know where the demand will be. My gut instinct is DSO, given the number of TS in HQ at the moment.

Yea my experience is that they use different ones so will have to wait and see I guess and practice different types in mean time.

Aleece2020 wrote: »

Sat the EO test myself today; it was SOVA. Questions kept getting progressively harder as the test went on so they are adaptive.

My question is if I apply for the TS/DSO role then will I be unable to apply for the general graduate entry scheme when it becomes available? I'm technically qualified for TS/DSO, Industrial Relations and most likely general grad entry so I'd like to go for all three if allowed.

There is never any restriction on anyone applying for an open competition (which all graduate grades are).

Is the starting salary for this role definitely circa 31k? Seems very low considering they are looking for solicitors snd barristers and/or degree holders. Very interesting role but salary seems grossly inappropriate.

Aleece2020 wrote: »

I suppose that really depends on where they end up sending you. If you are assigned to a country with a much lower cost of living than Ireland, it'd be a great wage while you're abroad.

I have to wonder how popular the role would realistically be though; especially for grads/postgrads who are in their mid to late 20s. It's definitely not the type of position where you'd be easily able to settle down and have kids since you'll potentially be moving around every 3-4 years.

The role is generally extremely popular and highly competitive and most people who have come in recently are in their late 20s with quite a few in their early 30s. If you think the money is too low, you may not be a good fit for the public service.

The incentives and motivations are totally different. You work for Ireland and the Irish people, not the profit of a corporation. Like others have said, there are other perks like allowances, a good pension, decent holidays, and union representation. A further thing to consider is when you pass probation you have secure employment. This is a well-paid recession-proof job doing (occasional) high-level work for Ireland around the world. It's a fantastic opportunity that may not come again for quite a while if public sector recruitment is cut. Just ask any lawyers who qualified around 2010... things can get very rough out there in the private sector, and you are insulated against that in the civil service.

By the time you reach First Secretary, you're in the top 10% of earners in the country. And even as a Third Sec coming in, you're right at the median private sector salary, which will only go up, year on year. Though it's not about the money, being based in Dublin means this is challenging for people in their late 20s. If you're successful, be prepared to live in Dublin for several years before being posted as the queue is getting long.

By and large, there have been thousands entering prior competitions for maybe 30-50 positions regardless of these downsides. Corporate law, for example, has an atrocious lifestyle, so this role isn't "competing" against that. It helps to have a legal background, but it's by no means the norm or expected. It's far more to your advantage to have language skills, some grounding in politics/international relations, good people skills, be extremely resourceful and resilient, and generally just a good colleague who is very adaptable and curious.

LadyLabyrinth wrote: »

@crouchtiger any insights on what experience did the older graduates coming in have previously? Just wondering particularly with DSO will it all be hires from NGO s that have had in country experience that Irish Aid hires (as in would there be any hope that someone with the qualification in Development, but no international experience (but years of relevant experience in Ireland and UK)would get in?)

Or do you tend to see people who perform well in exams getting in, like the other civil service exams?

Hello there! Unfortunately I have pretty limited knowledge of what they may be looking for on the development side given it's a pretty new approach and I don't work in the development space. They've recruited at FS/AP level for development missions previously, but this is the first time I'm aware of that it has happened in parallel with TS. As far as I know, the roles won't be interchangeable, so I'd advise focusing on one or the other. Doing a general application may see you fall between two stools.

I know at the FS level for development roles they asked for 3 years experience in a development role on the ground. It may be less demanding at the TS level, but I'd imagine practical experience anywhere would be a distinct advantage.


The tests are really screening mechanisms and once you get through them, it's down to the interviews. For TS posts at least, previous civil service experience at the same grade (AO) seems to have been a very good advantage and a lot of people near the top of the last competition panel were existing civil servants.

Others have been academics, have worked in state agencies, various private sector roles. Most people who have come in have relevant master's degrees but a lot of senior managers don't. I guess it's a generational difference in both competition and education.

Hi All

Does anyone applying or perhaps as a current TS have any information on the application form which requests information on your health and sick leave record? The application advises to contact PAS if applicant has any queries as to eligilibity and that your record will be checked in later stages of application process and prior to final offer. I have contacted PAS however no word back yet perhaps due to COVID.
Basically would a previous condition which did cause sick days, that is now resolved, disqualify me?
This is also mentioned in terms of probationary period in year 1 of the TS position so it strikes me as stringent. Does anyone have any information on this?

Thanks all

ticklemonster wrote: »

What happens when a TS is sent abroad in terms of living arrangements? For example living in London, Paris or NY on 30K would be close to impossible. In regard to language training etc, how is this provided for new posts? It seems like an interesting and complex role so a bit more information about these particulars would be useful. I assume it is provided to successful applicants?

Also, how long does it take to become FS and so on. Anyone?

There is an accommodation allowance for foreign postings, which is calibrated based on the cost of living in the city. Allowances have been getting tighter in recent years but it is usual to get a 2 apartment with 30 min walk of the Mission. Obviously, if you have a family with you the allowance will also reflect that.

Individual language training is provided ahead of posting and then during it. If you would like to study another language you can do group classes.

First Sec can take anywhere from 4 years to 12 years plus. HQ plus a full posting will bring you to 7 years. If you got promoted at the end of your first posting you would be doing very well. It also completely dependent on retirements, spaces opening up, Government recruitment moratorium etc etc. Some people stay as TS their entire careers (rare and usually a choice).

Submitted my application the other day. Fingers crossed as it looks like a fantastic opportunity. I've been wondering about the postings though and have seen mention of "hardship postings" in another thread, specifically referring to Japan. Does anyone know anything about what is meant by a hardship posting? I would've thought Tokyo would be a pretty desirable choice and an interesting mission in general

Deadline has passed. May god have mercy on our souls.

Maybe it's after the Fukishima disaster it was assigned that status or the years of zero growth

Cities are designated as having a Hardship I, Hardship II or Hardship III rating, depending on a number of criteria. These include personal security, political tension, health, environmental factors, climate and isolation. The different ratings do not affect the salary paid as the civil servant is paid as per their ranking in Ireland.

Those in the two higher categories of hardship -- grades I and II -- are also entitled to a "getting out trip" once a year up to the cost of an economy-rate return fare to Ireland.

chrishic wrote: »

Submitted my application the other day. Fingers crossed as it looks like a fantastic opportunity. I've been wondering about the postings though and have seen mention of "hardship postings" in another thread, specifically referring to Japan. Does anyone know anything about what is meant by a hardship posting? I would've thought Tokyo would be a pretty desirable choice and an interesting mission in general

Tokyo is not a hardship posting. It will always be extremely popular and desirable, and Japanese language skills would be an incredibly useful asset to strengthen your case for a posting there. You would have many competitors on any postings list.

There are 5 categories of hardship posting and they reflect the sort of postings you'd expect them to in terms of risk, living conditions, and the difficulty of the work in the mission. They range from Monrovia on the top end to somewhere like Sophia and Shanghai at the less "challenging" end. You'd receive extra allowances and annual leave for these postings, which varies according to the level of difficulty.

For those who have applied and are thinking about interview - I'd try not fixate on your posting too much. It's going to take time to get out anywhere and you'll have several years at HQ. It may be that you have 2 roles before a posting happens. The relevant HQ experience will also be necessary to smooth the path to promotion - being a diplomat in our system isn't only about foreign representation, there's the basic civil service life that underpins it.

completedit wrote: »

Does anybody know if there is an assessment to test your language skills?

No, although I didn't claim to have any at the time. Perhaps if you do they would check.

That's great information to have. Cheers. I have varying degrees of language proficiency across a few languages so hoping it will stand to me. Although, they're all the romance languages so not that much of an advantage.