Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston · 08-10-2020 09:53AM

The Ireland squad makes grim reading from an Ulster POV.

17 players from Leinster, 8 from Munster, 6 from Connacht and 4 from Ulster...there aren't even any players from Ulster in the mini group training with the squad.

Pretty disappointing given we reached the Pro 14 final and Champions Cup Q/F. Our players have paid a heavy penalty for 2 or 3 disapointing games. We've almost been punished by playing games that other teams didn't even qualify for.

Cooney, Moore and Hume are very unlucky.

bilston · 08-10-2020 09:55AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Is there even any point trying to guess the squad for this weekend, with Covid wreaking havoc?

Given the disruption to training and so on, I wonder would it be better to view this game as a squad-building opportunity? Are the international players available this week, or does camp start next week?

Hopefully the game happens

awec · 08-10-2020 10:11AM

Was Hume ever really in contention? I don't think he's there yet to be honest.

bilston · 08-10-2020 10:29AM

awec wrote: »

Was Hume ever really in contention? I don't think he's there yet to be honest.

Why not?

Time to big up Ulster players...sure as hell no one else will!

awec · 08-10-2020 10:57AM

bilston wrote: »

Why not?

Time to big up Ulster players...sure as hell no one else will!

Us nordies are famous for being level headed and reasonable.

Hume will get his chance, we don't need to start pimping him after a handful of Ulster caps.

launish116 · 08-10-2020 11:11AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Is there even any point trying to guess the squad for this weekend, with Covid wreaking havoc?

Given the disruption to training and so on, I wonder would it be better to view this game as a squad-building opportunity? Are the international players available this week, or does camp start next week?

You’d guess that’s the squad for next week, as they have a week off?

Be a few players not names wanting to play and put there hand up in case of last minute injuries/call ups!

Same as last week as strong as possible with maybe academy of bench. Though this will be a step up again. COVID could play havoc though with team selection!

If there isolating and get tested and the result is negative, is there still an isolation period in case it develops later?

bilston · 08-10-2020 11:24AM

awec wrote: »

Us nordies are famous for being level headed and reasonable.

Hume will get his chance, we don't need to start pimping him after a handful of Ulster caps.

Hugo Keenan? Ryan Baird?

Paul Smeenus · 08-10-2020 11:27AM

We're not over-excitable D4 types.

Paul Smeenus · 08-10-2020 11:39AM

Not that concerned - Tom O''Toole and Burns were in the full squad in March, Baloucoune was development and likely would have been ahead of Keenan, and Addison is injured. So I'm not really fussed on the numbers. Also - we're rebuilding - it's hardly surprising that we don't have a lot of players going in to international squad. Baird is a freak, Keenan is lucky with other's injuries. We are down to bare bones in the back three, that's why Keenan is there - all our first choice centres are fit, that's why Hume isn't really close.

Eric O'Sullivan is a bit unlucky, I'd say.

launish116 · 08-10-2020 12:02PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Not that concerned - Tom O''Toole and Burns were in the full squad in March, Baloucoune was development and likely would have been ahead of Keenan, and Addison is injured. So I'm not really fussed on the numbers. Also - we're rebuilding - it's hardly surprising that we don't have a lot of players going in to international squad. Baird is a freak, Keenan is lucky with other's injuries. We are down to bare bones in the back three, that's why Keenan is there - all our first choice centres are fit, that's why Hume isn't really close.

Eric O'Sullivan is a bit unlucky, I'd say.

In a selfish way Ireland’s loss is Ulster’s gain! Though your right the numbers don’t mean much looking at injuries etc.

O’Sullivan should feel unlucky, he’s unbelievably mobile and is like an extra back row. Just feel he loses out in explosiveness both in the loose and scrum.

bilston · 08-10-2020 12:13PM

Fair enough...I'm just ultra competitive, even when it comes to squad numbers

awec · 08-10-2020 12:48PM

If Balacoune was fit he'd be getting capped I reckon. Excellent in defence, scores tries, has all the attributes to play at that level.

Paul Smeenus · 08-10-2020 01:02PM

awec wrote: »

If Balacoune was fit he'd be getting capped I reckon. Excellent in defence, scores tries, has all the attributes to play at that level.

!00%. He was comfortably our best winger last season, performed in our European games - I said at the time, I think we actually really missed him in our knock-out games last month.

As a winger, he's better than Keenan, was in better form than Stockdale, his defence is probably better than Lowe's - he would have been very much a live option, especially with Earls out.

kingofthekong · 08-10-2020 01:33PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

!00%. He was comfortably our best winger last season, performed in our European games - I said at the time, I think we actually really missed him in our knock-out games last month.

As a winger, he's better than Keenan, was in better form than Stockdale, his defence is probably better than Lowe's - he would have been very much a live option, especially with Earls out.

Keenan is there is think to be trialled as a fullback, so Balcoune is really competing with Larmour, Conway, Lyttle etc

Paul Smeenus · 08-10-2020 02:06PM

kingofthekong wrote: »

Keenan is there is think to be trialled as a fullback, so Balcoune is really competing with Larmour, Conway, Lyttle etc

Yeah, true.

Paul Smeenus · 09-10-2020 09:44AM

I'm putting my cards on the table now - this season s going to be an intensely frustrating hodge-podge with all kinds of ridiculous, inequitable league management decisions and baffling results as teams cope with isolating players, schedule pressure, financial panic, crowds in, crowds out, games cancelled at the last moment, and seemingly some kind of bizarre, barely-thought-through handbrake turn half-way in, involving the SA teams.

Of course I want Ulster to win the league, but for the good of my own mental health, I am going to take this season with a pinch of salt. You always need luck to win a league, but the role blind luck will play in whoever winning the league this year will be massive.

I want to see increased depth with some talented young forwards coming through, and the spine of the team come to the fore. I want to continue to be as impressed as I have been with the way Ulster have handled the issues arising out of this pandemic. I want to see some good rugby, especially played by Ulster. But I don't expect much more out of this season, or expect it to be much of a reflection of anything. Unless Ulster win it, of course - then it will be a pinpoint-precise indication of our position as top dogs.

kingofthekong · 09-10-2020 10:08AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'm putting my cards on the table now - this season s going to be an intensely frustrating hodge-podge with all kinds of ridiculous, inequitable league management decisions and baffling results as teams cope with isolating players, schedule pressure, financial panic, crowds in, crowds out, games cancelled at the last moment, and seemingly some kind of bizarre, barely-thought-through handbrake turn half-way in, involving the SA teams.

Of course I want Ulster to win the league, but for the good of my own mental health, I am going to take this season with a pinch of salt. You always need luck to win a league, but the role blind luck will play in whoever winning the league this year will be massive.

I want to see increased depth with some talented young forwards coming through, and the spine of the team come to the fore. I want to continue to be as impressed as I have been with the way Ulster have handled the issues arising out of this pandemic. I want to see some good rugby, especially played by Ulster. But I don't expect much more out of this season, or expect it to be much of a reflection of anything. Unless Ulster win it, of course - then it will be a pinpoint-precise indication of our position as top dogs.

Would Love to see: Tom Stewart, Hyde, Allison, Sexton, Mcilroy and Mcann get some time over the next few months

launish116 · 09-10-2020 10:12AM

kingofthekong wrote: »

Would Love to see: Tom Stewart, Hyde, Allison, Sexton, Mcilroy and Mcann get some time over the next few months

Agreed! This season needs put in perspective everything is all over the place! Less pressure on the young guns! Get them integrated and ready for when normality returns.

We have a run of 7 or so games in a row, so expecting some rotation and opportunities, especially with Irish contingent away.

But still sticking by any integration needs done with support/experience, not as the last option on an away trip to Leinster.

FrannoFan · 09-10-2020 10:33AM

I would have had moore and mcgrath in for scrum alone.

last 20 mins in france with Ed Byrne and Belaham doesn't bode well

Cooney unlucky. i'm hoping marmion and gibson park point towards and higher tempo ireland rather than a slight on the player.

Stu very unlucky. Center just so competitive with aki/henshaw/ringrose

Paul Smeenus · 09-10-2020 10:36AM

kingofthekong wrote: »

Would Love to see: Tom Stewart, Hyde, Allison, Sexton, Mcilroy and Mcann get some time over the next few months

Actually, the areas where we really need players to beak through are at second row and scrumhalf. We need O'Connor Jr and Finlay - Carter still has shown very little and Cooney is thirty and Mathewson only on a year's contract?

kingofthekong · 09-10-2020 10:56AM

FrannoFan wrote: »

I would have had moore and mcgrath in for scrum alone.

last 20 mins in france with Ed Byrne and Belaham doesn't bode well

Cooney unlucky. i'm hoping marmion and gibson park point towards and higher tempo ireland rather than a slight on the player.

Stu very unlucky. Center just so competitive with aki/henshaw/ringrose

Mcloskey is in the squad

kingofthekong · 09-10-2020 10:57AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Actually, the areas where we really need players to beak through are at second row and scrumhalf. We need O'Connor Jr and Finlay - Carter still has shown very little and Cooney is thirty and Mathewson only on a year's contract?

Appart from O'connor there no one else in the pipelin for Ulster at lock, may have to rely on imports there for a while..

launish116 · 09-10-2020 11:02AM

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Rob Lyttle, Ian Madigan, John Cooney.

(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O'Connor, Iain Henderson (Capt.) , Matthew Rea, Marcus Rea, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O'Sullivan, Gareth Milasinovich, Kieran Treadwell, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Louis Ludik, Sean Reidy.

Paul Smeenus · 09-10-2020 11:12AM

First start for Rea Jr! In a proper team, surrounded by Coetzee, Henderson and Herring, against a good Ospreys team. You love to see it. Looks like we are going over to give it out best shot. Hopefully Milasinovich continues getting up to speed with a decent crack off the bench. Greg Jones starting to become an option for the serious games as well?

bilston · 09-10-2020 11:12AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I'm putting my cards on the table now - this season s going to be an intensely frustrating hodge-podge with all kinds of ridiculous, inequitable league management decisions and baffling results as teams cope with isolating players, schedule pressure, financial panic, crowds in, crowds out, games cancelled at the last moment, and seemingly some kind of bizarre, barely-thought-through handbrake turn half-way in, involving the SA teams.

Of course I want Ulster to win the league, but for the good of my own mental health, I am going to take this season with a pinch of salt. You always need luck to win a league, but the role blind luck will play in whoever winning the league this year will be massive.

I want to see increased depth with some talented young forwards coming through, and the spine of the team come to the fore. I want to continue to be as impressed as I have been with the way Ulster have handled the issues arising out of this pandemic. I want to see some good rugby, especially played by Ulster. But I don't expect much more out of this season, or expect it to be much of a reflection of anything. Unless Ulster win it, of course - then it will be a pinpoint-precise indication of our position as top dogs.

I was thinking something similar the other day...sure we can make another Pro 14 final, and on our day we could even beat Leinster...but another 12 months for this squad and I think we will be more competitive with the top sides.

Sure it would be a lot more satisfying to win in front of 50,000 in June 2022 than in front of a few thousand (if we're lucky) in 2021.

Paul Smeenus · 09-10-2020 11:14AM

Serious Ospreys team as well. Let's rock!

Ospreys

15. Dan Evans, 14. Mat Protheroe, 13. Owen Watkin, 12. Keiran Williams, 11. Luke Morgan, 10. Stephen Myler, 9. Rhys Webb, 1.Nicky Smith, 2. Sam Parry, 3. Tom Botha, 4. Adam Beard, 5. Alun Wyn Jones, 6. Olly Cracknell, 7. Justin Tipuric ©, 8. Morgan Morris

16. Dewi Lake, 17. Rhodri Jones, 18. Ma’afu Fia, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Dan Lydiate, 21. Harri Morgan, 22. Josh Thomas, 23. Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler

launish116 · 09-10-2020 11:17AM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Serious Ospreys team as well. Let's rock!

Ospreys

15. Dan Evans, 14. Mat Protheroe, 13. Owen Watkin, 12. Keiran Williams, 11. Luke Morgan, 10. Stephen Myler, 9. Rhys Webb, 1.Nicky Smith, 2. Sam Parry, 3. Tom Botha, 4. Adam Beard, 5. Alun Wyn Jones, 6. Olly Cracknell, 7. Justin Tipuric ©, 8. Morgan Morris

16. Dewi Lake, 17. Rhodri Jones, 18. Ma’afu Fia, 19. Bradley Davies, 20. Dan Lydiate, 21. Harri Morgan, 22. Josh Thomas, 23. Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler

Indeed, very close on paper!

6/2 Split for us as well!

Squidgy Black · 09-10-2020 11:17AM

Moore and Hume as a center partnership could be quality with that pack giving Cooney and Madigan fast ball.

Have a feeling this will be the best game of the weekend, two quality sides.

ionadnapóca · 09-10-2020 11:43AM

launish116 wrote: »

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Rob Lyttle, Ian Madigan, John Cooney.

(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O'Connor, Iain Henderson (Capt.) , Matthew Rea, Marcus Rea, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O'Sullivan, Gareth Milasinovich, Kieran Treadwell, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Louis Ludik, Sean Reidy.

Lads what is going on with FB?
I see Larmour on the wing again for Leinster.
I thought the Stockdale FB thing was dead.

At least Carter isnt playing this week!
Liking this Moore fella at 12. 13 Humes best position?

bilston · 09-10-2020 11:44AM

launish116 wrote: »

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Rob Lyttle, Ian Madigan, John Cooney.

(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O'Connor, Iain Henderson (Capt.) , Matthew Rea, Marcus Rea, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O'Sullivan, Gareth Milasinovich, Kieran Treadwell, Greg Jones, David Shanahan, Louis Ludik, Sean Reidy.

Looks like Cooney is the replacement 10.

Great to see Marcus Rea getting a shot...alongside his big bro too. It will be proud day for the family I'm sure.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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