General British politics discussion thread

Tom Mann Centuria · 28-09-2020 2:57pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The only way you can get away with being anti-Israel and not be accused of antisemitism is by being a well known Jew like Noam Chomsky.

No, they're just called "the wrong kind of Jew" like Michael Rosen or the late David Graeber have been, anti-Semitism in itself, but doesn't count if attacking leftists.

https://twitter.com/davidgraeber/status/1201950245804027904?s=20

kowloon · 28-09-2020 3:02pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This is going to be a very short live footnote to 2020 UK politics but I'll put in here

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1309971932926836737

Presumably this will be about as big as about 25% his twitter following, as many will just have him as a hate read/laugh on their time line.

First thing I heard about this was some guysI know talking about how he's just saying things that are 'common sense'. 'Common sense' never bodes well.

breezy1985 · 28-09-2020 3:30pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

No, they're just called "the wrong kind of Jew" like Michael Rosen or the late David Graeber have been, anti-Semitism in itself, but doesn't count if attacking leftists.

https://twitter.com/davidgraeber/status/1201950245804027904?s=20

I do find it really odd that the far right are still obsessed with Jewish people. I'm not saying that I expect what they do to make any sense but the way lads like at that Charlottesville march jump into it despite it probably having no bearing on their lives and many on the right simultaneously supporting Israel.

Many years ago back when I wasn't taking these guys seriously I for laughs used to check in on a UVF/Israel/KKK solidarity website and I never thought it would actually become anything more than a few lonely nuts

cml387 · 28-09-2020 6:25pm

On the subject of the BBC, there is a kite flying that Charles Moore is to be the new head of the board of governors.

Charles Moore refused to pay his TV licence at one stage, is against the principle of the licence and believes the BBC is too anti Brexit.

Whatever you may think of the BBC, to remove it's licence fee will end the BBC as it has existed for nearly 100 years.

It's a tribute to the organisation that both sides feel it's against them.

ancapailldorcha · 28-09-2020 6:30pm

cml387 wrote: »

On the subject of the BBC, there is a kite flying that Charles Moore is to be the new head of the board of governors.

Charles Moore refused to pay his TV licence at one stage, is against the principle of the licence and believes the BBC is too anti Brexit.

Whatever you may think of the BBC, to remove it's licence fee will end the BBC as it has existed for nearly 100 years.

It's a tribute to the organisation that both sides feel it's against them.

I'm starting to come round to the idea that the licence fee needs to go to be honest. Younger people are tuning out in greater numbers than before and are going to wonder why they have to pay the licence fee to watch live football on Amazon Prime or stream shows on other channels:

The scale of the BBC's challenge
Ofcom’s annual report on the BBC sets out the nature of the challenge it faces.

Last year, for the first time, less than half (49%) of young people aged 16-24 tuned into BBC TV channels in an average week. Among males in this age group, it was 46%.
People aged 16-34 spent an average of one hour and 12 minutes with the BBC every day – five minutes less than the previous year, and half as much time as audiences overall.
After several years of stability, the proportion of children aged 4-6 who watch CBeebies each week fell, from 39% to 34%.
BBC iPlayer’s reach of 15-24 year olds fell from 28% to 26%, while Netflix saw its younger audience increase from 56% to 66%.
The amount of time 18-24 year-olds spent each day on BBC websites dropped by a quarter, from 2 minutes 43 seconds each day, to 2 minutes.
Similar challenges are revealed in Ofcom’s review of BBC news and current affairs, also published today. The review gathered views from audiences across the UK, and involved innovative, detailed research on how people get their news.

Our review finds that the BBC remains the UK’s primary news source, and has maintained its reputation for trusted and accurate reporting. In a time of increased fake news and disinformation, BBC news is still the place people go for a reliable take on events, particularly breaking stories.

However, we found that younger audiences are turning away from BBC news and current affairs, increasingly using social media and news ‘aggregator’ services – such as Apple News or Upday – where the BBC is just one of many sources. Among 16-24 year-olds:

Less than a quarter (23%) watched BBC TV news during 2018, a drop of over a third in just five years.
Fewer than one in 10 (8%) watched current affairs across BBC TV, around half the proportion who watched five years ago. In contrast, more than three quarters (76%) now use social media for news.
Younger people in our research questioned how far BBC news coverage was ‘talking to them’, rather than older generations.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2019/bbc-risking-lost-generation

I do pay the licence fee myself as I like to stream and used to watch Question Time and the like on iPlayer but the idea that I have to hand over £13 a month because I like to watch the odd Family Guy rerun on ITV2 is beyond ridiculous.

Ironically enough, they did have the idea of launching their own streaming service a decade ago with ITV and Channel 4 but Ofcom ruled that it was uncompetitive. Now they're playing catchup with Netflix and Amazon with their BritBox service.

cml387 · 28-09-2020 6:39pm

The licence is the worst option, until you look at the alternatives.

Advertising would just divide the cake into a smaller amount shared with ITV and SKY.

Some people are holding up Netflix as an example of a subscription service, but it would take years to build up sufficient cash to maintain even a fraction of the services the BBC provides.

Yes, in the past the BBC was profligate with money, but now it's outsourced nearly all of its studio,technical and playout.

Sam Russell · 28-09-2020 7:31pm

Well Ch4 has no licence fee income and is funded by advertising, and the BBC has lost its way as far as politics is concerned.

Lord Reith set out the remit of the BBC - to inform; to educate; and to entertain. The pursuit of audience numbers has contributed to their losing their way and failing in their adherence to Lord Reith's remit.

They try to be true to 'the regions' but produce little regional programmes.

They try to be impartial as to politics but employ Laura Kuenssberg, and Andrew Neil.

They continue to make programmes that rely on free access to the armed forces - I am thinking of Top Gear, Masterchef, and programmes of that kind. This gives a free plug to the military. OK, if you like that kind of thing.

They have grown too big, and pay far to much to their stars. [Where have we heard that before of a broadcaster?]

If the licence fee goes, who will keep them in check, and who pays for the BBC? 'Here is the Ten O'Clock News from the BBC - sponsored by Twitter where you can get better news all day - direct to your device!' I do not think so.

I think the BBC needs to be brought under control and not basically abolished. I have seen USA TV and it is not worth watching at all. That is not a good model to follow.

cml387 · 28-09-2020 7:46pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the BBC needs to be brought under control and not basically abolished. I have seen USA TV and it is not worth watching at all. That is not a good model to follow.

Yes they do portray the British military in a good light (particularly when Top Gear was a Clarkson vehicle, and he finally got dumped because his particular "virtues" came to light) but the British public love their military and although you may not like it, it goes down well with their audience.

The BBC being "brought under control" is a bit worrying. The BBC was set up very carefully to try and be independent of government pressure and got into terrible trouble over Suez (Eden was looking for ways of taking the BBC under government control) and the Falklands (when a particular Newsnight programme had the then DG spitroasted at a 1922 committee meeting).
And let's not forget the "dodgy dossier" which cost the BBC a very able DG.

My point is that the BBC is in an impossible situation and if, as you say, the future is a group of new outlets just talking to their political supporters then we are heading for a very bad situation.

Sam Russell · 28-09-2020 9:03pm

cml387 wrote: »

Yes they do portray the British military in a good light (particularly when Top Gear was a Clarkson vehicle, and he finally got dumped because his particular "virtues" came to light) but the British public love their military and although you may not like it, it goes down well with their audience.

The BBC being "brought under control" is a bit worrying. The BBC was set up very carefully to try and be independent of government pressure and got into terrible trouble over Suez (Eden was looking for ways of taking the BBC under government control) and the Falklands (when a particular Newsnight programme had the then DG spitroasted at a 1922 committee meeting).
And let's not forget the "dodgy dossier" which cost the BBC a very able DG.

My point is that the BBC is in an impossible situation and if, as you say, the future is a group of new outlets just talking to their political supporters then we are heading for a very bad situation.

I think what you are saying (and pardon me if this is not what you are saying) but without a free and independent BBC, Britain will not be the Britain it once was.

Yea, I think that ship has sailed.

ancapailldorcha · 28-09-2020 9:13pm

cml387 wrote: »

The licence is the worst option, until you look at the alternatives.

Advertising would just divide the cake into a smaller amount shared with ITV and SKY.

Some people are holding up Netflix as an example of a subscription service, but it would take years to build up sufficient cash to maintain even a fraction of the services the BBC provides.

Yes, in the past the BBC was profligate with money, but now it's outsourced nearly all of its studio,technical and playout.

I still disagree. The BBC has gotten out of touch with the next generation. They've turned away from it for the most part in favour of social media and Netflix. The horse has bolted. At some point they'll wonder why they have to pay a licence fee and it'll likely be expanded to include streaming as with the entertainment charge in Ireland as it's unlikely the BBC will be able to survive otherwise.

breezy1985 · 28-09-2020 9:49pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I still disagree. The BBC has gotten out of touch with the next generation. They've turned away from it for the most part in favour of social media and Netflix. The horse has bolted. At some point they'll wonder why they have to pay a licence fee and it'll likely be expanded to include streaming as with the entertainment charge in Ireland as it's unlikely the BBC will be able to survive otherwise.

I think the BBC falls out with every young generation. Were the punks and mods and all that not complaining that the BBC were out of touch in 77 too and now I bet they all love a bit on panorama and digging for Britain.

And I'm pretty sure the young people loved killing eve, fleabag , the bodyguard and add to that the still very popular kids shows and the fact that it is all streamed 24/7 now like netflix

PommieBast · 29-09-2020 12:43am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

At some point they'll wonder why they have to pay a licence fee and it'll likely be expanded to include streaming as with the entertainment charge in Ireland as it's unlikely the BBC will be able to survive otherwise.

I doubt it will be expanded. Decriminalisation of licence fee evasion is the writing on the wall.

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 8:31am

breezy1985 wrote: »

I think the BBC falls out with every young generation. Were the punks and mods and all that not complaining that the BBC were out of touch in 77 too and now I bet they all love a bit on panorama and digging for Britain.

And I'm pretty sure the young people loved killing eve, fleabag , the bodyguard and add to that the still very popular kids shows and the fact that it is all streamed 24/7 now like netflix

The thing there is that until about a decade ago, social media and Netflix were barely existent. Previous generations might have started to watch it as they settled down but that's no longer the case as the data shows.

breezy1985 · 29-09-2020 9:24am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The thing there is that until about a decade ago, social media and Netflix were barely existent. Previous generations might have started to watch it as they settled down but that's no longer the case as the data shows.

How can the data show what young people are gonna do before they grow up? There are plenty of shows on BBC which have been successful with younger people.

The only reason to get rid of it is that Tories don't want to have to pay for any of the nice things that people got post WW2

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 10:07am

breezy1985 wrote: »

How can the data show what young people are gonna do before they grow up? There are plenty of shows on BBC which have been successful with younger people.

The only reason to get rid of it is that Tories don't want to have to pay for any of the nice things that people got post WW2

They're fully adult. Insinuating that they're children because they have a different attitude is just a bit petty, no?

The BBC needs to connect with younger people. Threatening them with imprisonment if they don't pay up isn't the way to do it.

Leroy42 · 29-09-2020 10:10am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They're fully adult. Insinuating that they're children because they have a different attitude is just a bit petty, no?

The BBC needs to connect with younger people. Threatening them with imprisonment if they don't pay up isn't the way to do it.

Do you hold that true for all cases of not obeying the law, or just in relation to the BBC licence fee?

Parking fines for example, littering?

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 10:13am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do you hold that true for all cases of not obeying the law, or just in relation to the BBC licence fee?

Parking fines for example, littering?

When did I argue for people not to obey the law?

Leroy42 · 29-09-2020 10:21am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The BBC needs to connect with younger people. Threatening them with imprisonment if they don't pay up isn't the way to do it.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When did I argue for people not to obey the law?

So obey the law, but there is no consequence if you don't?

Joe_ Public · 29-09-2020 10:33am

As an outsider, I find it hard to be persuaded about the licence fee arguments. People protest about rte licence here but that is against the backdrop of lamentable programme output whereas, from what I see, the BBC is often unsurpassed when it comes to drama, documentary and other output. I don't see why you wouldn't pay for that. You don't pay for Netflix, you don't get the service.

So as I see it, the battleground is politics and the so called "culture wars" and the likes of Charles Moore, Farage et al using it as a pawn to spread it's pernicious and false message that the BBC, like other institutions, is a hot bed of lefty liberal intrigue. I honestly don't believe any of them actually want the status quo to change, it suits them far better just to bloviate about how the msm is all agin them at every available opportunity, often in the form of a rant on QT, or other bbc outlet, about how they are never on QT etc. They have it all sown up. Why would they want to change it?

Leroy42 · 29-09-2020 10:35am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As an outsider, I find it hard to be persuaded about the licence fee arguments. People protest about rte licence here but that is against the backdrop of lamentable programme output whereas, from what I see, the BBC is often unsurpassed when it comes to drama, documentary and other output. I don't see why you wouldn't pay for that. You don't pay for Netflix, you don't get the service.

So as I see it, the battleground is politics and the so called "culture wars" and the likes of Charles Moore, Farage et al using it as a pawn to spread it's pernicious and false message that the BBC, like other institutions, is a hot bed of lefty liberal intrigue. I honestly don't believe any of them actually want the status quo to change, it suits them far better just to bloviate about how the msm is all agin them at every available opportunity, often in the form of a rant on QT, or other bbc outlet, about how they are never on QT etc. They have it all sown up. Why would they want to change it?

Also, on top of the culture wars, who do you think stands to benefit of the BBC is disbanded/defunded? Sure it would help the politicians to some extent, although I am not overly convinced. But it would certainly remove a major competitor for the likes of Sky, ITN etc.

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 10:48am

Leroy42 wrote: »

So obey the law, but there is no consequence if you don't?

You've lost me here. People here get the threatening letters regardless of whether or not they actually use the BBC. It's a lazy scattergun approach. I occassionally stream live TV so I pay the fee but I very rarely watch the BBC if at all so frankly, I don't see why I should have to.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As an outsider, I find it hard to be persuaded about the licence fee arguments. People protest about rte licence here but that is against the backdrop of lamentable programme output whereas, from what I see, the BBC is often unsurpassed when it comes to drama, documentary and other output. I don't see why you wouldn't pay for that. You don't pay for Netflix, you don't get the service.

If this is the case then making it voluntary should be a no-brainer. It's so good that people will voluntarily cough up as they do for other services like Sky and Netflix. It's easy to enjoy the programming if you're not paying for it.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

So as I see it, the battleground is politics and the so called "culture wars" and the likes of Charles Moore, Farage et al using it as a pawn to spread it's pernicious and false message that the BBC, like other institutions, is a hot bed of lefty liberal intrigue. I honestly don't believe any of them actually want the status quo to change, it suits them far better just to bloviate about how the msm is all agin them at every available opportunity, often in the form of a rant on QT, or other bbc outlet, about how they are never on QT etc. They have it all sown up. Why would they want to change it?

I don't want to see the licence fee scrapped because I don't like the Politics of some of the BBC's senior staff. I want it scrapped because I don't appreciate being threatened and bullied and because the organisation has refused to adapt to the times.

The conservatives will never scap the BBC. If they do, they'll have to answer to its ageing audience who are more likely to vote. It's a handy scapegoat as you've said. Cuts are more likely which will result in a reduced service such as the end of the live BBC Three channel.

quokula · 29-09-2020 10:59am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Also, on top of the culture wars, who do you think stands to benefit of the BBC is disbanded/defunded? Sure it would help the politicians to some extent, although I am not overly convinced. But it would certainly remove a major competitor for the likes of Sky, ITN etc.

The weird irony is that in the past few years, the BBC's news output has often been well to the right of the likes of Sky and ITN. While nowhere near as bad as the hellscape of the UK newspapers, they were always the most willing TV channel to give extreme brexiteers / climate deniers / out and out racists a platform in the name of "balance" while commercial news channels tend to be much more fact-based. At least until Andrew Neil's new channel gets going.

Sam Russell · 29-09-2020 11:21am

quokula wrote: »

The weird irony is that in the past few years, the BBC's news output has often been well to the right of the likes of Sky and ITN. While nowhere near as bad as the hellscape of the UK newspapers, they were always the most willing TV channel to give extreme brexiteers / climate deniers / out and out racists a platform in the name of "balance" while commercial news channels tend to be much more fact-based. At least until Andrew Neil's new channel gets going.

The Tory ministers refuse to appear on Ch4 news.

breezy1985 · 29-09-2020 11:22am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You've lost me here. People here get the threatening letters regardless of whether or not they actually use the BBC. It's a lazy scattergun approach. I occassionally stream live TV so I pay the fee but I very rarely watch the BBC if at all so frankly, I don't see why I should have to.

If this is the case then making it voluntary should be a no-brainer. It's so good that people will voluntarily cough up as they do for other services like Sky and Netflix. It's easy to enjoy the programming if you're not paying for it.

I don't want to see the licence fee scrapped because I don't like the Politics of some of the BBC's senior staff. I want it scrapped because I don't appreciate being threatened and bullied and because the organisation has refused to adapt to the times.

The conservatives will never scap the BBC. If they do, they'll have to answer to its ageing audience who are more likely to vote. It's a handy scapegoat as you've said. Cuts are more likely which will result in a reduced service such as the end of the live BBC Three channel.

You don't have to pay in the UK if you don't watch BBC so its not that different to Netflix. The Skybox users and the like get a little shafted though so I would like to see a system where if you pay for one the license fee is included

The rules currently are you can't watch anything BBC on any service or website and you can't watch any live TV

And sorry for insulting the youth earlier I should have said "get older" not "grow up"

Joe_ Public · 29-09-2020 11:24am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Also, on top of the culture wars, who do you think stands to benefit of the BBC is disbanded/defunded? Sure it would help the politicians to some extent, although I am not overly convinced. But it would certainly remove a major competitor for the likes of Sky, ITN etc.

That is true and I've little doubt someone like Cummings would relish the prospect of seeing another dear old institution summarily taken down a peg. At the same time, I think it suits them perfectly the way things are, to be able to portray the bbc as among the arrogant out of touch elite Johnson and the right are standing up for. Like, how convenient just to refuse to engage with Newsnight, for example, and then complain relentlessly how they can never catch an even break. How effectively that plays with their base. Farage was hardly off the screens during the referendum campaign, the bbc head of politics was a rabid brexiteer and yet they still managed to convince a large portion of the population that the station was staunchly anti leave. That's why I'm not sure they really want to tinker radically with the status quo.

Sam Russell · 29-09-2020 11:30am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

That is true and I've little doubt someone like Cummings would relish the prospect of seeing another dear old institution summarily taken down a peg. At the same time, I think it suits them perfectly the way things are, to be able to portray the bbc as among the arrogant out of touch elite Johnson and the right are standing up for. Like, how convenient just to refuse to engage with Newsnight, for example, and then complain relentlessly how they can never catch an even break. How effectively that plays with their base. Farage was hardly off the screens during the referendum campaign, the bbc head of politics was a rabid brexiteer and yet they still managed to convince a large portion of the population that the station was staunchly anti leave. That's why I'm not sure they really want to tinker radically with the status quo.

The majority of the British public are not engaged with politics - certainly not as much as we are here in Ireland. Perhaps the right wing crowd would like to extend that because it suits them that most people do not question the likes of Grayling and his failing. Remember the fuss created by Tory back benchers questioning whether the BBC should be putting on entertainment shows like 'Strictly Come Dancing'.

The current corruption evident by the huge amounts of money (billions of £) being shovelled out to friends and donors of the Gov without any oversight normally required. If it is questioned, another dead cat appears on the table.

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 11:30am

breezy1985 wrote: »

You don't have to pay in the UK if you don't watch BBC so its not that different to Netflix. The Skybox users and the like get a little shafted though so I would like to see a system where if you pay for one the license fee is included

The rules currently are you can't watch anything BBC on any service or website and you can't watch any live TV

And sorry for insulting the youth earlier I should have said "get older" not "grow up"

Yes, you do if you watch or stream any live TV.

The whole in the getting older and watching the BBC argument is house prices IMO. I'm inferring that you're arguing that as people age, they start families, buy houses and sit together to watch TV in the evening. Property prices stand in the way of that life for many people and since they're living in houseshares and consuming Netflix and social media then I don't see them switching to the BBC any time soon.

Joe_ Public · 29-09-2020 11:34am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You've lost me here. People here get the threatening letters regardless of whether or not they actually use the BBC. It's a lazy scattergun approach. I occassionally stream live TV so I pay the fee but I very rarely watch the BBC if at all so frankly, I don't see why I should have to.

If this is the case then making it voluntary should be a no-brainer. It's so good that people will voluntarily cough up as they do for other services like Sky and Netflix. It's easy to enjoy the programming if you're not paying for it.

I don't want to see the licence fee scrapped because I don't like the Politics of some of the BBC's senior staff. I want it scrapped because I don't appreciate being threatened and bullied and because the organisation has refused to adapt to the times.

The conservatives will never scap the BBC. If they do, they'll have to answer to its ageing audience who are more likely to vote. It's a handy scapegoat as you've said. Cuts are more likely which will result in a reduced service such as the end of the live BBC Three channel.

I think maybe I'm just too old or just simply out of touch to truly appreciate these arguments tbh. I still believe in the old fashioned concept of psb and it doesn't occur to me here not to comply with the licence laws even though I regard the national output as fairly deplorable. I just consider there are other things to get more worked up about.

I figure if I had only the bbc player for entertainment, I'd have more than I needed. Maybe that's just me. I wonder what more they should have been doing to keep up with the times, I was of understanding that that was the express purpose of bbc3 but it seems that would be first to go under the cuts. I remember, living in uk back in the day, the bbc was overwhelming a cherished institution, an unquestioned source of national pride. That was a long time ago now, though.

Joe_ Public · 29-09-2020 11:44am

Sam Russell wrote: »

The majority of the British public are not engaged with politics - certainly not as much as we are here in Ireland. Perhaps the right wing crowd would like to extend that because it suits them that most people do not question the likes of Grayling and his failing. Remember the fuss created by Tory back benchers questioning whether the BBC should be putting on entertainment shows like 'Strictly Come Dancing'.

The current corruption evident by the huge amounts of money (billions of £) being shovelled out to friends and donors of the Gov without any oversight normally required. If it is questioned, another dead cat appears on the table.

Yes, that is unquestionably true. The tories don't need to change minds or convince anyone of their merits, they'll have their 40% regardless. It suits them just enough to create a sense of apathy and hopelessness which in turn leads to a vacuum where the young just see no point and don't bother engaging. The whole thing just carries on, rinse and repeat, until something seismic or revolutionary happens, which is maybe once in our lifetimes, if even that.

ancapailldorcha · 29-09-2020 11:46am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I think maybe I'm just too old or just simply out of touch to truly appreciate these arguments tbh. I still believe in the old fashioned concept of psb and it doesn't occur to me here not to comply with the licence laws even though I regard the national output as fairly deplorable. I just consider there are other things to get more worked up about.

I figure if I had only the bbc player for entertainment, I'd have more than I needed. Maybe that's just me. I wonder what more they should have been doing to keep up with the times, I was of understanding that that was the express purpose of bbc3 but it seems that would be first to go under the cuts. I remember, living in uk back in the day, the bbc was overwhelming a cherished institution, an unquestioned source of national pride. That was a long time ago now, though.

BBC Three did seem to be very focused on younger audiences. It's a shame they axed it but the other services might be more popular with older viewers so maybe that was the best choice for them. I think my own sense of apathy towards it stems from years and years of conservative culture war nonsense, Brexit and covid such that I'm just not bothered any more and would rather save my money instead of being threatened by an unfit-for-service public broadcaster. Their coverage both of Brexit and the 2019 election was just shameful IMO.

The BBC's in a weird place culturally and demographically. The free market right despise it as they see it as a left-wing state monolith. The culture war right despise it for the same reason but a lot of the programming appeals to older, more conservative viewers and any change to them attracts censure as we saw with the recent Last Night of the Proms incident.

The left believe in a state broadcaster ideologically but take issue with the prominence given to right wing figures like Nigel Frage which is rarely afforded to their left wing equivalents.

I don't see the licence fee as being viable in the long term, thankfully. If the conservatives ever decide to decriminalise non-payment or exempt OAP's from the fee then I think that that's the end of it. I honestly don't understand why they never launched their own streaming service for the EU and beyond while adhereing to Ofcom's dictat about non-competitive behaviour.

General British politics discussion thread

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