Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

topper75 · 25-09-2020 10:32AM

Skyfloater wrote: »

About the 20% of cases need to be hospitalized claim by RTE, have any studies come up with any different figures. 20% seems very high. And yes I am aware of the difficulties posed by asymptomatic cases.

I SUSPECT (no science) that people present to hospital with other things, leg fracture etc., and are tested> if positive, even asymptomatic, they are a 'Covid hospitalisation'. Feeley's article in the Times suggested that 2/3 to 3/4 of infectees are asymptomatic going by the cruise ship testing and testing in China.

The stand out thing in his article for me was:

The best kept secret regarding Covid-19 is the vulnerability of overweight individuals. For reasons unknown this is not publicised to the degree required.

brisan · 25-09-2020 10:38AM

topper75 wrote: »

I SUSPECT (no science) that people present to hospital with other things, leg fracture etc., and are tested> if positive, even asymptomatic, they are a 'Covid hospitalisation'. Feeley's article in the Times suggested that 2/3 to 3/4 of infectees are asymptomatic going by the cruise ship testing and testing in China.

The stand out thing in his article for me was:

Which is why on another thread a person with a BMI of over 40 was finding it near impossible to get mortgage protection

Nermal · 25-09-2020 10:39AM

Skyfloater wrote: »

About the 20% of cases need to be hospitalized claim by RTE, have any studies come up with any different figures. 20% seems very high. And yes I am aware of the difficulties posed by asymptomatic cases.

Every time you see a percentage quoted, ask yourself: is it based off confirmed cases?

If so, disregard it, it's not information, it's noise.

Stormyteacup · 25-09-2020 10:41AM

topper75 wrote: »

I SUSPECT

The stand out thing in his article for me was:
The best kept secret regarding Covid-19 is the vulnerability of overweight individuals. For reasons unknown this is not publicised to the degree required.

.

Have thought all along this was strange. In the UK they run public service ads identifying obesity as a risk and encourage exercise and healthy eating to lessen risk.

Wonder why it has been largely ignored here?

Charles Babbage · 25-09-2020 10:42AM

road_high wrote: »

Is production well under way? I didn’t know this can you link it?
Last I heard the trials hadn’t finished yet so it wouldn’t be registered- before production would begin it would have to be registered

This is not true, it is widely known that production of vaccines has commenced while they are in trials.

The trials may show some limitations of the vaccine, for instance that it may not be suitable for people with some existing conditions, but it might work OK for most people and in that case the pre produced vaccines can be used immediately.

Skyfloater wrote:

About the 20% of cases need to be hospitalized claim by RTE, have any studies come up with any different figures. 20% seems very high. And yes I am aware of the difficulties posed by asymptomatic cases.

When did RTÉ say this, link please?

LuckyLloyd · 25-09-2020 10:48AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

How can production of something that’s not yet been developed be underway?

The vaccines in phase 3 trialling were developed months ago (in the case of the Oxford vaccine it was technically developed years ago for MERs). They are producing at risk in parallel to the trialling process. If the trials fail the outlay on production is lost. But those gambles are being taken.

mohawk · 25-09-2020 10:54AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The vaccines in phase 3 trialling were developed months ago (in the case of the Oxford vaccine it was technically developed years ago for MERs). They are producing at risk in parallel to the trialling process. If the trials fail the outlay on production is lost. But those gambles are being taken.

Possibly some of the production outlay has been covered by governments. Some governments have put money into this area to try get a vaccine or antiviral out the door as soon as approved.

brisan · 25-09-2020 10:55AM

mohawk wrote: »

Possibly some of the production outlay has been covered by governments. Some governments have put money into this area to try get a vaccine or antiviral out the door as soon as approved.

Listening to the head of the Oxford team they said that approvals and sign offs that normally took months for other vaccines where being granted within a couple of days for Covid vaccine

JDD · 25-09-2020 11:01AM

This is not true, it is widely known that production of vaccines has commenced while they are in trials.

The trials may show some limitations of the vaccine, for instance that it may not be suitable for people with some existing conditions, but it might work OK for most people and in that case the pre produced vaccines can be used immediately.

Production has started for the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine in India.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/asia/coronavirus-vaccine-india.html

Penfailed · 25-09-2020 11:01AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Also production is well underway of potential vaccines

'Potential' being the most important word there. There's a potential for a vaccine but no certainty. IF a vaccine is produced, they then have to make enough of the stuff to go around. Then, you have to persuade a sizeable cohort of people who are suspicious of a vaccine that has been rushed through trials with no idea about the long term affects that the new vaccine may have, to take it. Good luck with that.

gmisk · 25-09-2020 11:04AM

Lundstram wrote: »

There are now two places in Europe banning public worship and they are both in Ireland: Dublin and Donegal.

Says it all.

The average age of people going to mass would be what?
They can let it go ahead sure no worries but they might have a much smaller congregation going forward.

There are bigger problems than people not getting to mass.

Plumbthedepths · 25-09-2020 11:07AM

brisan wrote: »

Listening to the head of the Oxford team they said that approvals and sign offs that normally took months for other vaccines where being granted within a couple of days for Covid vaccine

They are starting clinical trials in the next week or so.

Penfailed · 25-09-2020 11:08AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

Other countries in Europe with the exception of the UK’s pub curfew are fully open.

This is simply not true. Almost every other country in Europe have some restrictions in place.

mohawk · 25-09-2020 11:11AM

JDD wrote: »

Production has started for the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine in India.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/01/world/asia/coronavirus-vaccine-india.html

Getting drug through clinical trials and getting regulatory approval is only part of what is required. The quicker that facility is up and running the quicker it can get approval as a manufacturing site for the vaccine. The regulators will need to approve every step of the process and release of the vaccine. That needs to start now to stop hold ups getting vaccine on the market. It is a huge risk for that company though. The chances are not all the vaccines will get approval.

Stormyteacup · 25-09-2020 11:15AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

When did RTÉ say this, link please?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0905/1163404-covid-ireland-update/

This bit shows up at the bottom of countless articles on RTE:

The World Health Organization says data to date suggests 80% of Covid-19 infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical, requiring ventilation.

Assetbacked · 25-09-2020 11:33AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0905/1163404-covid-ireland-update/

This bit shows up at the bottom of countless articles on RTE:

The World Health Organization says data to date suggests 80% of Covid-19 infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical, requiring ventilation.

"People in Dublin urged to keep contacts low" - how about no? Ridiculous. I'll increase my physical distance to old people but otherwise, fcuk off.

storker · 25-09-2020 12:12PM

Penfailed wrote: »

This is simply not true. Almost every other country in Europe have some restrictions in place.

Indeed: https://ourworldindata.org/policy-responses-covid

25-09-2020 12:29PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

"People in Dublin urged to keep contacts low" - how about no? Ridiculous. I'll increase my physical distance to old people but otherwise, fcuk off.

Wow

Skyfloater · 25-09-2020 12:43PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This is not true, it is widely known that production of vaccines has commenced while they are in trials.

The trials may show some limitations of the vaccine, for instance that it may not be suitable for people with some existing conditions, but it might work OK for most people and in that case the pre produced vaccines can be used immediately.

When did RTÉ say this, link please?

I got it wrong.
In fairness to RTE, they are giving the rate at 10.7% since the start of the pandemic. It was the percentage of ICU patients that was 20%, my apologies for the confusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj6mvqnRlu4

wellwhynot · 25-09-2020 12:49PM

Penfailed wrote: »

This is simply not true. Almost every other country in Europe have some restrictions in place.

I am talking about businesses, restaurants and pubs. Not mask wearing and social distancing which do not affect the economy.

average_runner · 25-09-2020 01:07PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

"People in Dublin urged to keep contacts low" - how about no? Ridiculous. I'll increase my physical distance to old people but otherwise, fcuk off.

And that is why we have lockdowns and Sweden dont.

Swedish guidelines are pretty similar but they follow them:

Avoid contact with people who are unwell.
Those aged over 70 are advised to limit contact with other people as far as possible.
Wash your hands often with hot water and soap.
Avoid touching your face and eyes. The infection is spread via mucous membranes in your eyes, nose and mouth.
Avoid going to parties and other social events.
Keep your distance from other people in public places.
Avoid travelling in rush hour traffic.
Avoid unnecessary journeys.

We have a % of our population who are selfish dicks

Plumbthedepths · 25-09-2020 01:20PM

average_runner wrote: »

And that is why we have lockdowns and Sweden dont.

Swedish guidelines are pretty similar but they follow them:
Avoid contact with people who are unwell.

Those aged over 70 are advised to limit contact with other people as far as possible.

Wash your hands often with hot water and soap.

Avoid touching your face and eyes. The infection is spread via mucous membranes in your eyes, nose and mouth.

Avoid going to parties and other social events.

Keep your distance from other people in public places.

Avoid travelling in rush hour traffic.

Avoid unnecessary journeys.

We have a % of our population who are selfish dicks

So has Britain,France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic I could go on but you get the drift. All the countries I mentioned have fines in place for breaking restrictions, no need for fines if they didn't have selfish dicks.
You really seem to dislike the people that live here, is the pandemic keeping you here against your will?

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 01:23PM

Can I, perhaps ask a controversial question yet it does have grounds, isnt it obvious that covid is a seasonal sickness? And as a seasonal sickness, cases rise in the colder months and go down in the warmer months.

Does this not ring a bell? If it does - does it not suggest that whatever businesses are "in lockdown" doesnt actually matter, cases will go up regardless purely because its October, November, December etc.?

Watch this space

xhomelezz · 25-09-2020 01:26PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So has Britain,France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic I could go on but you get the drift. All the countries I mentioned have fines in place for breaking restrictions, no need for fines if they didn't have selfish dicks.
You really seem to dislike the people that live here, is the pandemic keeping you here against your will?

Sure they do have selfish dicks and they are actually made to pay fines, I guess after paying few times for not following rules, they give up and just do what they asked to do.

Plumbthedepths · 25-09-2020 01:31PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Sure they do have selfish dicks and they are actually made to pay fines, I guess after paying few times for not following rules, they give up and just do what they asked to do.

Well we could impose fines here, however collecting said fines maybe an issue. Can't seeing it work .
The biggest problem now is young people, they bought into the restrictions for the first few months. Give up their lives basically to flatten the curve now there is no direction or end goal as exactly to what Nphet ( no point mentioning the government they ain't running thing) desires at this stage.
If I were in my 20's again and after 6 months my attitude would f*** this I've had enough because nothing is making any sense.

CruelSummer · 25-09-2020 01:36PM

https://www.stress.org/open-letter-from-medical-doctors-and-health-professionals-to-all-belgian-authorities-and-all-belgian-media

Open letter from the medical professionals of Belgium calling for an end to the absolute draconian measures & lockdowns being imposed on populations. Provides plenty of information and reasoning as to why they have this view & other information re PCR testing + vaccine.
Will RTE or Irish media report this? And if they don’t, why would this be kept from us?
They’re quick to report on Australian restrictions, or U.K. ‘restrictions’ when really they’re just waiting staff being told to put on masks...

brisan · 25-09-2020 01:40PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Can I, perhaps ask a controversial question yet it does have grounds, isnt it obvious that covid is a seasonal sickness? And as a seasonal sickness, cases rise in the colder months and go down in the warmer months.

Does this not ring a bell? If it does - does it not suggest that whatever businesses are "in lockdown" doesnt actually matter, cases will go up regardless purely because its October, November, December etc.?

Watch this space

In the colder months people spend more time indoors and in warmer months people spend more time outdoors
if 100 people are in an indoors pub and another 100 in a beer garden which 100 people are more at risk
Its not the temperature its people s behaviour and how it changes according to the weather

25-09-2020 01:43PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

"People in Dublin urged to keep contacts low" - how about no? Ridiculous. I'll increase my physical distance to old people but otherwise, fcuk off.

Absolutely pathetic attitude, if only the law would tackle this we would have some hope of fighting off this disease. If you were slapped with a 500 euro fine you might think twice about it.

gmisk · 25-09-2020 01:45PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.stress.org/open-letter-from-medical-doctors-and-health-professionals-to-all-belgian-authorities-and-all-belgian-media

Open letter from the medical professionals of Belgium calling for an end to the absolute draconian measures & lockdowns being imposed on populations. Provides plenty of information and reasoning as to why they have this view & other information re PCR testing + vaccine.
Will RTE or Irish media report this? And if they don’t, why would this be kept from us?
They’re quick to report on Australian restrictions, or U.K. ‘restrictions’ when really they’re just waiting staff being told to put on masks...

The american institute of stress...seems dodgy af...their home page has a stress mastery questionnaire costing 17.95....

How many belgian medical professionals are behind that statement? What positions are they in?
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/
Anybody can sign it....and claim to be anything....laughable

I would say we have more of a link to the UK and australia... immigration migration etc...not sure what close ties we have to belgium why would RTE report that?

road_high · 25-09-2020 01:46PM

Donnelly yet again bull****ting on in a clip there on the news on radio that “young people are dying from the virus”.
Needless to say nothing to back up this massive claim or figures/locations etc. He could be talking about Timbuktu. Assume he’s not talking about Ireland? What young people are dying right now (plenty from suicide of course but once it’s not Covid who give two ****es right?)?

As we now know with c19 you can literally say anything about it (so long as it’s the current doomsday narrative) and not be questioned by our “media”

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings