Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

pjohnson · 25-09-2020 06:49AM

Wow this thread may be readable with far less hysteria for 72 hours now.

prunudo · 25-09-2020 07:34AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dr-martin-feeley-young-and-healthy-majority-need-to-be-allowed-to-live-1.4362503?mode=amp

Seems he is unwilling to stay quiet.

What happened their other colleague, since he fell foul of their group think. Marcus de Brun I think it was, he hasn't popped up in a long time.

SeaBreezes · 25-09-2020 08:01AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've just realised what is going on, and why some people are so zealous about measures that have little logical basis.

Its religion. Covid is a religion.

In religion if you get saved it is because god saved you, if you don't get saved its because you didn't believe hard enough, or weren't pious enough. Its win win for god.

If cases and deaths stay low it is because restrictions worked. If cases and deaths rise it is because people weren't pious enough about their restrictions, the same sort of win win scenario. There is no discussion where restrictions are allowed to have been the wrong idea.

You know the old saying about religion, "you can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into", it clearly applies to some of the posters in this thread, who needs critical thinking when you can just have faith in whatever guff a higher power tells you.

Only its real. Its a virus and this entire thread is filled with people discussing why there should be no/less restrictions. The clues in the name.

The posters on this thread that dont listen to science preferring facebook and Ivor Cummings, are to my mind the real religious nuts.

Especially when our government are following guidelines suggested by the actual scientists hired because of their experience in the area.

Dismissing that in favour of a youtube shill, to me, is more like religious fervour..

Question the advice by all means. But if given a choic e between a laymans opinion i listen to the dr./epidimiologist. And when THEY disagree, i listen to the majority, not the lone voice, of experts. Thats all we can do thats sensible really

Im grateful thats what our government is doing to. They're listening to all the experts and following the consensus advice. What else can they do?

Its our first pandemic in modern times. The countries that dismissed expert opinion are Brazil, and US and the death count will rival spanish flu there.

Sweden listened to their expert tegell and the death count was horrific and economy STILL tanked worse than their neighbours worse than us. And still no herd immunity. If thats even possible.

Religion is believing what you choose to believe without evidence. To my mind modren religion is found in facebook and youtube.

Im glad our government is following the science. And where the science is lacking (in fairness its a novel virus) they are choosing caution.

The countries that are thriving are following the science, masks, wash hands, limit indoor gathering, stamp.out the virus when it increases. We will thrive too.

Captain_Crash · 25-09-2020 08:08AM

prunudo wrote: »

What happened their other colleague, since he fell foul of their group think. Marcus de Brun I think it was, he hasn't popped up in a long time.

Was speaking to a friend working in the HSE just after Feeley resigned last week. He was saying that his views are widely shared by doctors within the HSE and that as Feeley was a couple of months from retirement, he took one for the team.

Stormyteacup · 25-09-2020 08:22AM

prunudo wrote: »

What happened their other colleague, since he fell foul of their group think. Marcus de Brun I think it was, he hasn't popped up in a long time.

One of Marcus de Brun’s recent tweets mentions that interview opportunities are scarce but that he continues to speak out.

There’s a reason why Luke O’ Neill, Tomas Ryan, Gerry Killeen, Sam McConkey etc are household names. They are cherry-picked by RTE, with the blessing of government and NPHET, because they fit the narrative. And as it turns out, some of them have vested interests.

Anyone with an alternative view is a crackpot on the lunatic fringe, and afforded no airtime apart from critiquing their qualifications or maligning their character.

Dr Geiseke who spoke to the special Covid committee about the ineffectiveness of lockdown and about altering our strategy is a special advisor to the WHO... still a granny-killing tin-foil hat wearer though.

average_runner · 25-09-2020 08:24AM

"A DOPEY publican waiting for a Covid test result may have unwittingly infected partygoers after heading back to his boozer before getting the news he had tested positive."

Now in fairness, how hard is it for people to isolate if they have a suspected case or waiting on a test result. We will never get anywhere at this rate.

weldoninhio · 25-09-2020 08:29AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

A lot more counties need to move to level 3 now also along with Donegal to get ahead of this.

It’s laughable, absolutely laughable that there are people in here patting each other on the back for their anti-lock down comments when they are clearly the way to manage this virus. Imagine these mad men actually had a say in things, we can be thankful they don’t.

The biggest issue is the pace of acting is too slow. Dublin needs to go to level 4 now, not next week, other counties with high numbers need to go to level 3 now.

If we don’t get a handle on things before the October bank holiday we will definitely be facing level 5 in the weeks following that if we are not already at that stage.

I think we should keep pushing so that the idiots in government have To rip up their plan and make a ten point plan, or even twenty. It’s time for the people to stand up and get on with things despite the govts useless advice.

road_high · 25-09-2020 08:39AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I think we should keep pushing so that the idiots in government have To rip up their plan and make a ten point plan, or even twenty. It’s time for the people to stand up and get on with things despite the govts useless advice.

Tbh there isn’t an option at this stage. We must get on with life and stop all these useless lockdowns and endless hysteria

average_runner · 25-09-2020 08:46AM

road_high wrote: »

Tbh there isn’t an option at this stage. We must get on with life and stop all these useless lockdowns and endless hysteria

Lockdowns achieve what they set out to achieve, ie force people to behave and the cases will drop.

The problem with lockdowns, once lifted, people don't behave and cause the lockdowns to come back.

So we are a circle at the moment. The penny will drop some stage or maybe not

So i agree we need to move away from lockdowns and get on with things, but people need to do the basic things to stop the spread. It isn't that hard when you see other countries doing it and no need for lockdowns.

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 08:52AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've just realised what is going on, and why some people are so zealous about measures that have little logical basis.

Its religion. Covid is a religion.

In religion if you get saved it is because god saved you, if you don't get saved its because you didn't believe hard enough, or weren't pious enough. Its win win for god.

If cases and deaths stay low it is because restrictions worked. If cases and deaths rise it is because people weren't pious enough about their restrictions, the same sort of win win scenario. There is no discussion where restrictions are allowed to have been the wrong idea.

You know the old saying about religion, "you can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into", it clearly applies to some of the posters in this thread, who needs critical thinking when you can just have faith in whatever guff a higher power tells you.

Exceptionally good post. That in bold describes the restrictions supporters very well. Presented with 0 science back in March, still back it...

kippy · 25-09-2020 08:57AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Exceptionally good post. That in bold describes the restrictions supporters very well. Presented with 0 science back in March, still back it...

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

At the time, and even now, that's still the basis for all of the restrictions in place globally.

LuckyLloyd · 25-09-2020 08:59AM

kippy wrote: »

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

At the time, and even now, that's still the basis for all of the restrictions in place globally.

It’s really very straightforward like.

average_runner · 25-09-2020 08:59AM

kippy wrote: »

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

At the time, and even now, that's still the basis for all of the restrictions in place globally.

Very good. Sadly there is a good portion of the Irish population that don't understand that.

road_high · 25-09-2020 09:06AM

kippy wrote: »

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

At the time, and even now, that's still the basis for all of the restrictions in place globally.

You say that like it’s something inconsequential. Avoid close Hunan contact. There’s a whole plethora of reasons why this isn’t a realistic long term plan (more than a few weeks I mean).

ixoy · 25-09-2020 09:06AM

kippy wrote: »

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

It's "where possible" that can be a bit tricky, at least socially. Does that mean meeting nobody? Does it mean just meeting immediate family? Friends but rarely? Once a week?
That's the tricky bit, especially as many people do need to socialise in some form in person. Don't know what the balance is - t's easier for me with a small family and no desire to meet many people often but I recognise for others, with say larger families or more friends that it's more difficult.

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 09:13AM

kippy wrote: »

The science was and is simple.

Avoid close human contact where possible.

At the time, and even now, that's still the basis for all of the restrictions in place globally.

That is not science. That is guess work.

Or its false science.

As, correct me if I am wrong, we went into lockdown in middle of March and our cases and deaths went up - WAY UP ? So science didnt work then?

25-09-2020 09:13AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm trying to make sense of your comment but it alludes me. It's possibly because the Great War started 1914 and ended 1918.

The US entered the war towards the end. The Spanish flu started in the US and brought it to Europe.

LuckyLloyd · 25-09-2020 09:18AM

road_high wrote: »

You say that like it’s something inconsequential. Avoid close Hunan contact. There’s a whole plethora of reasons why this isn’t a realistic long term plan (more than a few weeks I mean).

It’s going to be 12 - 18 months in the end.
It is possible because we’re doing it.
It’s really simple stuff tbh.

LuckyLloyd · 25-09-2020 09:19AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

That is not science. That is guess work.

Or its false science.

As, correct me if I am wrong, we went into lockdown in middle of March and our cases and deaths went up - WAY UP ? So science didnt work then?

The science or how respiratory viruses spread is well known.

average_runner · 25-09-2020 09:21AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

That is not science. That is guess work.

Or its false science.

As, correct me if I am wrong, we went into lockdown in middle of March and our cases and deaths went up - WAY UP ? So science didnt work then?

Because the virus was already rampant in the community, the damage was done

walus · 25-09-2020 09:22AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Question the advice by all means. But if given a choic e between a laymans opinion i listen to the dr./epidimiologist. And when THEY disagree, i listen to the majority, not the lone voice, of experts. Thats all we can do thats sensible really

Im grateful thats what our government is doing to. They're listening to all the experts and following the consensus advice. What else can they do?

Are you sure that they assembled a group of relevant experts? Tomas Ryan expertise and research is in neuroscience. He is an expert in memory. How did he get on the panel to discuss and advise on the pandemic? Glynn has PhD in surgical oncology for Christ sake. Can you name 2-3 of that group that actually have any experience in what they dealing with?

I've PhD in electronics, can I get on that panel too?

average_runner · 25-09-2020 09:22AM

A school in Donegal was meant to make their communion on Sat. Because the restrictions came in at midnight last night. The school and church held the communion at 9pm last night with a big crowd present!!

Same thing happened in Dublin also

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 09:23AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The science or how respiratory viruses spread is well known.

So how many scientific, peer reviewed published research papers were looked at about effectiveness of country wide lockdown in containing such prior to going into lockdown mid March?

You do realise lockdown has drawbacks? Such as thousands of un-diagnosed cancer patients. What was our science behind that move? Or there was no science behind that particular, er mishap?

road_high · 25-09-2020 09:25AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It’s going to be 12 - 18 months in the end.
It is possible because we’re doing it.
It’s really simple stuff tbh.

You don’t know how long it’ll be. There’s no definitive timeline for a vaccine (if ever). We’re already 7 months in going around in circles.
It may be simple for some people depending on their circumstances. Others it’s impossible.

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 09:26AM

average_runner wrote: »

Because the virus was already rampant in the community, the damage was done

Are you sure? Or was the virus rampant since November 2019 but the PCR test kits were only delivered in March?

average_runner · 25-09-2020 09:26AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So how many scientific, peer reviewed published research papers were looked at about effectiveness of country wide lockdown in containing such prior to going into lockdown mid March?

You do realise lockdown has drawbacks? Such as thousands of un-diagnosed cancer patients. What was our science behind that move? Or there was no science behind that particular, er mishap?

You do understand why lockdown is happening ? Its because we need someone to help us do the right thing, which we clearly cant do outside lockdown as results shown.

Lockdown has major drawbacks, but obviously people don't care as they continue to not follow the guidelines. They are at fault for the cancer delays etc

volchitsa · 25-09-2020 09:27AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Don’t forget about your holy hand sanitizer as you go in and out of the shops etc. It’s as if some people are nearly blessing themselves embarking on these brave missions to Tesco

Oh and if you have sexual desire you’ll have to wait for our saviour , the great and powerful vaccine

I don't know if you're being sarcastic here, but if you're not, the difference is that hand santozer actually does kill viruses. Holy water doesn't.

You're basically comparing vaccines to prayer on the basis that different people "swear by" each of them. :rolleyes:

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 09:27AM

road_high wrote: »

You don’t know how long it’ll be. There’s no definitive timeline for a vaccine (if ever).
It may be simple for some people depending on their circumstances. Others it’s impossible

Lol @ OP. Its gonna be 24 - 36 months minimum. Even if vaccine is developed next year, it needs 9 - 12 months to be mass produced.

Ireland is not exactly top of the queue for these.

Naivety in abundance :rolleyes:

Assetbacked · 25-09-2020 09:27AM

https://www.thecurrency.news/articles/24384/colm-barrington-lockdown-doesnt-work-theres-a-smarter-safer-cheaper-way-to-manage-covid

I think there's a free trial available as it is a paid article but good to see a national platform been given for a prominent voice in an economic sector ravaged by the OTT covid response (travel).

Here's the intro paragraphs as I can't copy the whole thing;

Our government’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic can only be described as pathetic. After six months, the strategy of trying to eliminate Covid-19 from Ireland – a strategy largely based on NPHET’s various levels of lockdown – has patently failed. And the cost to the country has been massive, measured in billions of euro, in huge social costs, and at the expense of other health detection, prevention and cure services. Despite these failures, we are now being given more of the same, and in the case of regions such as Dublin, more so. The public has become disillusioned with these failures and with our decision-makers.

When will they stop needlessly banging our heads against a wall?

While NPHET professes to offer a scientific approach to the pandemic, and produces myriad numbers to support their position, we have never experienced a situation such as this before – so their advice cannot be based on the level of observation required for scientific assessment. Instead, NPHET’s advice can only be based on speculation and conjecture. Meanwhile our politicians have totally reneged on their responsibilities to be decision-makers, instead of hiding behind this so-called scientific advice. Again, after six months of trying, it just hasn’t worked.

In addition to NPHET our government needs to seek, accept and act on advice from representatives of other sectors, including airlines, tourism and hospitality, FDI, and SMEs. Then we might get decisions that are based on a realistic cost:benefit analysis rather than the one dimensional – and erroneous – picture painted by NPHET.

Ginger n Lemon · 25-09-2020 09:28AM

average_runner wrote: »

You do understand why lockdown is happening ? Its because we need someone to help us do the right thing, which we clearly cant do outside lockdown as results shown

no no no no, YOU need someone to help you. Everyone I know gets on with their life and knows the 0.3% risks etc.

Restrictions are a hindrance, something for politicians to talk on TV about while masking our 1 in 6 unemployment rate or the large cuts coming in the budget.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings