The future of James Bond

mikhail · 23-09-2020 3:22pm

Maybe, but you'd have to reboot it immediately afterwards.

Dades · 23-09-2020 3:33pm

Tony EH wrote: »

I'd disagree here. I like that with 'Casino Royale', Bond grew up. I think the move away from the stupid of the likes of 'Moonraker' was absolutely essential for it to be taken seriously by an audience. Bond just cannot be Austin Powers any more.

Bond has grown up a few times. OHMSS. Licence to Kill, particularly. Casino Royale isn't the first. It was just a great reboot keeping the trend for "gritty", while maintaining some cocked-eyebrow moments.

Also, I refuse to "cancel" Moonraker!!

Tony EH wrote: »

'Casino Royale' was anything but "Bondy" to my eyes. That's one of the reasons I'd hold it in relatively high regard. It refreshingly invigorated a series that had shot its bolt years before the Dalton or the Brosnan eras, which were the nadir of the whole 26 movies.

Again, I think they kept the essence of Bond within a contemporary time. Cars, girls, gadgets, locations, casinos, villain with a deformity... BOOM.

Tony EH wrote: »

A Guy Ritchie Bond?...ugh. A Tarantino Bond? No. That would end up just being a riff like everything else he's made (with the exception of 'Reservoir Dogs', 'Pulp Fiction' and 'Jackie Brown'). I couldn't see them as a choice for director at all, I'm afraid. Richie is too limited and Tarantino would probably start off well and then descend into nonsense like so many of his films do.

A Nolan Bond? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can't see him going for it though.

Maybe a return to jobbing directors is best. Less Mendes/Deakins and more John Glen! Get the tropes and the script right and go from there.

mikhail · 23-09-2020 3:50pm

Dades wrote: »

Maybe a return to jobbing directors is best. Less Mendes/Deakins and more John Glen! Get the tropes and the script right and go from there.

Absolutely. Martin Campbell directed the best Brosnan and Craig instalments, and his CV otherwise is muck: the widely maligned Green Lantern, a couple of mostly forgotten Zorro flicks, and some bargain-bin stuff few people have even heard of. Glen's CV is even shorter and more obscure in terms of work as a director.

brevity · 23-09-2020 3:52pm

The director of the Paddington movies, Paul King, would be very interesting if he was up for it and the script was right. Paddington 2 is a great film and has bond-like elements.

Just because Bond is moving away from the campier elements doesn't have to bleak and dour.

Bond befriending some gangsters in a Siberian gulag and them breaking into song just before the title sequence could be the shot in the arm this franchise needs.

Kintarō Hattori · 23-09-2020 4:01pm

Mortgage Question wrote: »

Men of all ages, on average, find women in their early twenties most attractive sexually.

Going off point I know but heading towards 43 I can't disagree with this more. To me they're just kids. The 30s is where it's at.

breezy1985 · 23-09-2020 4:02pm

The amount of corporate tie-in crap that Bond has to be seen with must me an awful pain while making the movies. Seems like everything down to the toilet roll is a sponsor it's worse that a football team

Dades · 23-09-2020 4:13pm

brevity wrote: »

Bond befriending some gangsters in a Siberian gulag and them breaking into song just before the title sequence could be the shot in the arm this franchise needs.

Worked for the Muppets!

WrenBoy · 23-09-2020 5:54pm

I'd be interested to see Edgar Wright have a go at bond. I think it'd be a good blend.

Tony EH · 23-09-2020 5:55pm

Dades wrote: »

Bond has grown up a few times. OHMSS. Licence to Kill, particularly. Casino Royale isn't the first. It was just a great reboot keeping the trend for "gritty", while maintaining some cocked-eyebrow moments.

Also, I refuse to "cancel" Moonraker!!

Ah well, each to their own. :pac:

The only thing I could watch 'Moonraker' for now would be Richard Kiel.

As for "gritty", that's not really what I'm getting at by "grown up". To me, 'Casino Royale' was just more adult, I suppose. Less reliant on gimmick, or the more sillier aspect of previous Bonds. There's certainly no double take parrots or escaping from a tsunami with a parachute. It restrains itself from going anywhere near goof territory and was all the more better for it.

Also, I don't know if I could call 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' a "grown up" Bond movie. Tracey may die in the end, but getting there is utterly ridiculous. Although, I will say that that film is one of the more enjoyable efforts for repeat viewing, despite its aching flaws.

Dades wrote: »

Again, I think they kept the essence of Bond within a contemporary time. Cars, girls, gadgets, locations, casinos, villain with a deformity... BOOM.

Sure, there are familiar ingredients in there, but what came out of the oven wasn't anything like previous Bond's. There are even some purists who dislike the picture because it was a bit of a departure and consider it to be a different JB movie altogether. More akin to Jason Bourne than James Bond. Personally, I think the franchise benefited greatly from the kick up the arse that Mr. Bourne gave it and the more natural, down to earth, rough and ready approach that Daniel Craig brought to the role.

Dades wrote: »

Maybe a return to jobbing directors is best. Less Mendes/Deakins and more John Glen! Get the tropes and the script right and go from there.

Perhaps.

But re: script, this is kinda what I'm getting at with my "nowhere to go" comment. They can't stray too much because, inevitably, some Bond fans will rebel. But sticking rigidly to the tired formula dents an already limited scope. Which circles back to my other comment about Bond films being a "struggle to produce" nowadays. Honestly, I'd hate to have to write a script for one.

fitz · 23-09-2020 10:47pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I hate that Craig's Bond needed to explain the characters regeneration. Never had I watched a Bond and thought the illusion is ruined cause this guy looks different to before or how is he still going since the 60s.

Also Bond does his thing cause he is a spy on a mission and not because of mammy issues

This is kinda why I think having a story where Bond dies works - you never have to address the regeneration again, and there's always a chance that Bond doesn't survive in future films...I just think it'd give them a few new narrative avenues to use to freshen things up.

Homelander · 24-09-2020 11:37am

Totally lost interest in Bond a few movies ago. I think something like Goldeneye was the peak of semi-modern Bond - vaguely credible, ridiculous fun. Then they went way beyond the pale with it, each movie trying to outdo the previous with utterly ridiculous set pieces....bond surfing a tsunami was the end-game for me.

Casino Royale was a good movie, Quantum of Solace was alright, but after that, they just descended into boring, run of the mill and complete unmemorable affairs for me.

Mission Impossible, these days, does James Bond far better than James Bond has done for a very long time.

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 12:01pm

Homelander wrote: »

Totally lost interest in Bond a few movies ago. I think something like Goldeneye was the peak of semi-modern Bond - vaguely credible, ridiculous fun. Then they went way beyond the pale with it, each movie trying to outdo the previous with utterly ridiculous set pieces....bond surfing a tsunami was the end-game for me.

Casino Royale was a good movie, Quantum of Solace was alright, but after that, they just descended into boring, run of the mill and complete unmemorable affairs for me.

Mission Impossible, these days, does James Bond far better than James Bond has done for a very long time.

I agree that Goldeneye was a high point. Great villains with a good old wacky death Lazer, Bond got some gadgets but nothing too wild, we got 2 sexy Bond girls who were more than just eye candy all done with the right mix of serious Vs fun and all topped of with a serious tune of a Bond theme
Tomorrow never dies was a plot way ahead of its time but as a movie was a let down after Goldeneye and it all got real daft for Pierce after that

pixelburp · 24-09-2020 12:12pm

Tom Cruise's continued attempts to kill himself has certainly propelled the Mission Impossible series past Bond's - simply in terms of raw visceral action in the "spy adventure" genre. And it's something that really stood out with the No Time to Die trailer; bar a couple of moments the stuntwork looked limp and heavily accentuated by CGI (especially the moment with a bunch of jeeps cresting a hill).

That's not to say I want all action movies to involve the actual potential of death, but the MI films prove there really is no substitute for "real" danger on film. Maybe the Bond series is too fond of luxuriating in its scenery and product placements; heck perhaps the brands won't allow (say) that Aston Martin to be trashed or Bond's suit to be excesively scuffed. But while Ethan Hunt and James Bond are both indestructable characters, the former is the only one I buy into a sense of danger.

loyatemu · 24-09-2020 12:47pm

I like the MI films, but they're all identical (except for MI2 which distinguished itself from the others by being terrible). I mean the Bond the films are obviously to a formula as well, but if you asked me to tell you something about say "Tomorrow Never Dies" I could tell you a bit about the plot and villains. Ask me the same about "Rogue Nation" and I'd be stumped.

Dades · 24-09-2020 12:52pm

I don't see why Bond has to morph into Bourne or M:I.

MI: Fallout was outstanding. Apart from amazing set pieces, it stuck to its own formula of crazy plot twists, misdirection etc. Not to mention liberal use of its own infamous score.

Bond can and has done the same with it's own Bond identiy stamped on it. If there's a leaf Bond could take from the M:I playbook - it's maybe to make the experience more fun.

pixelburp wrote: »

That's not to say I want all action movies to involve the actual potential of death, but the MI films prove there really is no substitute for "real" danger on film. Maybe the Bond series is too fond of luxuriating in its scenery and product placements; heck perhaps the brands won't allow (say) that Aston Martin to be trashed or Bond's suit to be excesively scuffed. But while Ethan Hunt and James Bond are both indestructable characters, the former is the only one I buy into a sense of danger.

I don't understand this. Both Bond and his Aston are constantly trashed these days. The only differentiator here is that we all know Cruise is doing sh*t for real sometimes.

I think the real issue here is pleasing an aging Bond fanbase (*puts hand up*) and also pleasing the Fast and Furious and Marvel generation who demand bigger/louder/darker movies. I'm unlikely to ever see the type of Bond movie I'd like. I should probably just deal with it. :P

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 1:35pm

Dades wrote: »

I don't see why Bond has to morph into Bourne or M:I.

MI: Fallout was outstanding. Apart from amazing set pieces, it stuck to its own formula of crazy plot twists, misdirection etc. Not to mention liberal use of its own infamous score.

Bond can and has done the same with it's own Bond identiy stamped on it. If there's a leaf Bond could take from the M:I playbook - it's maybe to make the experience more fun.

I don't understand this. Both Bond and his Aston are constantly trashed these days. The only differentiator here is that we all know Cruise is doing sh*t for real sometimes.

I think the real issue here is pleasing an aging Bond fanbase (*puts hand up*) and also pleasing the Fast and Furious and Marvel generation who demand bigger/louder/darker movies. I'm unlikely to ever see the type of Bond movie I'd like. I should probably just deal with it. :P

Maybe he's not allowed get roughed up with the suit on but he took a fair whipping on that chair when he was b***s naked literally

IAMAMORON · 24-09-2020 1:44pm

For me the actual actor playing Bond is a secondary CSF for me.

It is all about intro, theme tune, the Girl (s), corny one liners , gadgets , over the top stunts , the baddie , chase music , the car , the great escape and the candid latent non pc sexism, I love it.

I don't care who plays him after that.

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 2:01pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For me the actual actor playing Bond is a secondary CSF for me.

It is all about intro, theme tune, the Girl (s), corny one liners , gadgets , over the top stunts , the baddie , chase music , the car , the great escape and the candid latent non pc sexism, I love it.

I don't care who plays him after that.

It almost seems to have overshadowed the movies at this stage. That and whatever new brand of taytos he is paid to eat on screen this year

DrumSteve · 24-09-2020 2:07pm

Having watched the Fall recently, I think Jamie Dornan would make a decent bond

Dades · 24-09-2020 2:13pm

Interesting blog about product placement in Bond.

It never really bothers me. I remember it as a kid watching Moonraker, so it's been around a long time. The current Heineken plugs have the same subtlety as Q enormously logoed Sony gadgets in the 80s.

But most of the brands in the new movies I wouldn't even notice watching them... e.g. clothes brands.

salmocab · 24-09-2020 2:17pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For me the actual actor playing Bond is a secondary CSF for me.

It is all about intro, theme tune, the Girl (s), corny one liners , gadgets , over the top stunts , the baddie , chase music , the car , the great escape and the candid latent non pc sexism, I love it.

I don't care who plays him after that.

I’m kinda with you, my favourite Bond was Moore, I find that era of movie just more fun. I can take or leave the newer ones, great big spy movies with explosions and endless cash for effects are grand but I’d take Moore being a misogynist any day.

pixelburp · 24-09-2020 2:28pm

Fair play to any pallette that 26 films later, remains undimmed. Funny to see elsewhere the complaint about Hollywood as a production line of mediocrity yet Bond has the most rigid, shallow itemised structure around.

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 2:32pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Having watched the Fall recently, I think Jamie Dornan would make a decent bond

He should definitely be in the running I was quite impressed by him in Jadoville andI really hope none of the main Game of Thrones lads are considered as I find them both incredibly wooden. Really can't think of many others who fit the age profile and are not from the US
Jason Isaacs would have been a brilliant Bond but another who's time has passed.

elefant · 24-09-2020 2:38pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree that Goldeneye was a high point. Great villains with a good old wacky death Lazer, Bond got some gadgets but nothing too wild, we got 2 sexy Bond girls who were more than just eye candy all done with the right mix of serious Vs fun and all topped of with a serious tune of a Bond theme

Let's not forget the pièce de résistance: Goldeneye on the N64.

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 2:40pm

elefant wrote: »

Let's not forget the pièce de résistance: Goldeneye on the N64.

" I am invincible"

FunLover18 · 24-09-2020 3:28pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Maybe he's not allowed get roughed up with the suit on but he took a fair whipping on that chair when he was b***s naked literally

When you compare this to the "torture" scene in Spectre the tonal shift in Craig's era is staggering.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-09-2020 3:35pm

elefant wrote: »

Let's not forget the pièce de résistance: Goldeneye on the N64.

I was going to say you would love news of Goldeneye 25 next year but rights holders have shut it down now, boo...

https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2020-08-11-after-years-of-development-the-goldeneye-25-fan-remake-just-got-lawyered

breezy1985 · 24-09-2020 4:11pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

When you compare this to the "torture" scene in Spectre the tonal shift in Craig's era is staggering.

Spectre was generally a mess. Kinda felt like a wired reaction to people who didn't like new Bond by throwing in some nostalgia names.
Gets it terribly wrong too with 2 annoying current trenss of needing to give everyone an origin story and a shock revelation which we already had to much of in the Bond before it

JJayoo · 24-09-2020 4:58pm

Ryan Tubrity should be the next Bond

FunLover18 · 24-09-2020 5:14pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

Spectre was generally a mess. Kinda felt like a wired reaction to people who didn't like new Bond by throwing in some nostalgia names.
Gets it terribly wrong too with 2 annoying current trenss of needing to give everyone an origin story and a shock revelation which we already had to much of in the Bond before it

Even with Skyfall they were swerving back towards the lighter tone though, people responded to the nostalgic nods and they doubled down on it in Spectre. The trend of having everything connected personally to Bond is just ridiculous at this stage, he's become a Harry Potter esque chosen one.

The future of James Bond

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