Hairdressing course

skooterblue2 · 05-09-2020 11:16am #1

My wife wants to change career. Her time is coming to an end in supermarket retail as a manager (combination of glass ceiling, no degree, more dangerous work environment, opposing early-late shifts and endemic bullying by other managers and incompetence). She wants out before she burns out.

She wants to do a hairdressing course. €4k, 7 months part-time out the other end and into industry. Can any hairdresser (student, recently qualified and managers) please advise? What should she be looking for on a course? Where did you qualify and how well did it prepare you for industry? What are the start up costs? Is the course fairly priced? How to verify a courses certification and if you will get recognition afterwards.

I am enquiring on her behalf. I don't know the difference between shampoo and conditioner if it weren't written on the bottle. I havent been in a hairdressers since I was 12. Your thoughts are welcomed please.

Airyfairy12 · 06-09-2020 2:42am

4K is incredibly expensive for a 7 month course. I know some privately run courses charge a good few thousand but part time for several months doesnt sound very good imo. You cant learn everything you need to know in that short amount of time.
Generally institutes of further education provide hairdressing courses for a much more reasonable cost and they cover everything you need to know, if your wife contacts her local ETB they should be able to guide her in the right direction.

I did a one year QQI level 5 in hairdressing about 12 years ago, I worked as a hairdresser for a year but it wasnt for me. In my experience from working in 2 different hair salons, one was owned by a business woman with no background in beauty or hair dressing, she was a bit of a bully and there was so much pressure on the staff to sell products to customers, if we didnt reach our weekly 'goal' it would effect our wages.
The other hairdressers I worked in was owned by a stylist, there was no pressure to sell products but the environment was very bitchy, I left for my own mental health.

She will still be working in a business where problems arise when working with others but her management experience should stand to her.

skooterblue2 · 06-09-2020 10:51pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

4K is incredibly expensive for a 7 month course. I know some privately run courses charge a good few thousand but part time for several months doesnt sound very good imo. You cant learn everything you need to know in that short amount of time.

hmmm The one year course is within our budget but we cannot afford to take time out to do the course full time. Just to add another burden to us, social welfare have cut my disability in half because we told them we were married.

We really appreciate your candidacy and frankness about the industry. You are the first to reply. My wife against my advice wants to finish a private bookkeeping course first. I am a "move quickly and break stuff" kind of guy. You cant wait for all your ducks to be in a row perfectly.

antix80 · 06-09-2020 10:59pm

If she studies while working in a hairdressers fulltime I'd say go for it. Ideally she should get some practical experience first before committing so much money.

It is a lot of money though.. A plc or fas course would be a lot cheaper and maybe just as good.

Has she spoken to any hairdressers to see how they rate the courses?

Is she planning on being an employee or self-employed - to me it would be daunting to finish a short, part-time course and expect to take on clients.

skooterblue2 · 06-09-2020 11:11pm

antix80 wrote: »

If she studies while working in a hairdressers fulltime I'd say go for it. Ideally she should get some practical experience first before committing so much money.

It is a lot of money though.. A plc or fas course would be a lot cheaper and maybe just as good.

Has she spoken to any hairdressers to see how they rate the courses?

Is she planning on being an employee or self-employed - to me it would be daunting to finish a short, part-time course and expect to take on clients.

No she is working in shop as assistant manager and is the main breadwinner. She is also very customer orientated.
Our time is limited in this country due to our age (late 30s -early 40s), housing (renting), education (incomplete) and no pension plan. I am a believer in continuous education but have an awkward history due to disability.

I was only told about this Friday night. Herself being herself has probably thought a lot about it but is slightly afraid because her family aren't big fans of formal education structures. I am ALWAYS chipping away at a course or trying to learn something from youtube. She is far from dumb but she doesnt believe in CPD up till now.

She wants to learn hairdressing work for a year (I am hoping that also includes plenty of CPD) and then open her own business including fitting wigs.

Airyfairy12 · 07-09-2020 1:42am

Being completely honest she will have a hard time getting work as a hairdresser with a 7 month part time course, she's competing for jobs against FE graduates with a full time 2 year level 6 qualification in hairdressing. If she wants to do a short part time course id suggest barbering and then working her way forward from there.
Not sure if you mean she wants to open a salon straight after she finishes her course or a few years down the line? To open a salon she would need to have a clientele - as in regular customers built up over years unless she plans to employ experienced hairdressers who already have their own customers but then hse has to consider the extra costs of employing hairdressers, paying insurance and rent for the premises and all the costs that go along with running a salon like equipment, products, supplies ect.. It's something she would really need to think about.

For the time being could she look for a manager job else where? If she got something part time or evening/weekend work she could possibly complete the full time course? Its hard work but so many people do it.

skooterblue2 · 07-09-2020 8:14am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Being completely honest she will have a hard time getting work as a hairdresser with a 7 month part time course, she's competing for jobs against FE graduates with a full time 2 year level 6 qualification in hairdressing. If she wants to do a short part time course id suggest barbering and then working her way forward from there.
Not sure if you mean she wants to open a salon straight after she finishes her course or a few years down the line? To open a salon she would need to have a clientele - as in regular customers built up over years unless she plans to employ experienced hairdressers who already have their own customers but then hse has to consider the extra costs of employing hairdressers, paying insurance and rent for the premises and all the costs that go along with running a salon like equipment, products, supplies ect.. It's something she would really need to think about.

For the time being could she look for a manager job else where? If she got something part time or evening/weekend work she could possibly complete the full time course? Its hard work but so many people do it.

She is looking for a property with a garage to convert. She is at that age when she doesnt have a degree and lets tell the truth the way it is..... recruiters and employers are ageist. They dont want to be hiring you the wrong side of 30 unless you have some amazing qualification. The attitude is hire them while they are young. Dont get me wrong she is a great manager with 20 years experience and she goes through managers every 18-24 months. She never kept up with CPD or done a course to elevate herself. In the same time period I probably did 5 private courses but she wanted money for holidays and travel. She became comfortable as a company fixxer (sorts things out on her day off and steps in an emergency) and the bosses darling at her own expense. Yes she should have done this years ago, but we cant change that now.

She wants to work for a year in order to gain experience. This lockdown hasnt allowed her talk to her hairdresser for advice.

Trans Ann · 07-09-2020 9:12am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

She is looking for a property with a garage to convert. She is at that age when she doesnt have a degree and lets tell the truth the way it is..... recruiters and employers are ageist. They dont want to be hiring you the wrong side of 30 unless you have some amazing qualification. The attitude is hire them while they are young. Dont get me wrong she is a great manager with 20 years experience and she goes through managers every 18-24 months. She never kept up with CPD or done a course to elevate herself. In the same time period I probably did 5 private courses but she wanted money for holidays and travel. She became comfortable as a company fixxer (sorts things out on her day off and steps in an emergency) and the bosses darling at her own expense. Yes she should have done this years ago, but we cant change that now.

She wants to work for a year in order to gain experience. This lockdown hasnt allowed her talk to her hairdresser for advice.

I think she should go for it, now is the time to start thinking about changing careers. Fair play to her wanting retrain. It won't be easy nothing is but if she has the go in her she can make it work. If this is something she really wants to do then do it. Its great you support her too. It takes courage to make that first step. I'm a firm believer in training and working in different areas to keep things interesting. Myself and my husband taught English abroad for the last two years in different parts of Asia and everyone thought it was a crazy idea. We loved it and are going back next year. We have our degrees house etc so why not? Your wife can do anything she wants, ignore the nay sayers. Of course it will be hard and if it doesn't work out have a plan b. 4k is a lot of money but if you have it its your choice what you do with it, if it doesn't work out just spend it more wisely next time but I'm sure it will work out.

skooterblue2 · 07-09-2020 9:23am

Trans Ann wrote: »

I think she should go for it, now is the time to start thinking about changing careers. Fair play to her wanting retrain. It won't be easy nothing is but if she has the go in her she can make it work. If this is something she really wants to do then do it. Its great you support her too. It takes courage to make that first step. I'm a firm believer in training and working in different areas to keep things interesting. Myself and my husband taught English abroad for the last two years in different parts of Asia and everyone thought it was a crazy idea. We loved it and are going back next year. We have our degrees house etc so why not? Your wife can do anything she wants, ignore the nay sayers. Of course it will be hard and if it doesn't work out have a plan b. 4k is a lot of money but if you have it its your choice what you do with it, if it doesn't work out just spend it more wisely next time but I'm sure it will work out.

She should have retrained for it after she realised the shop could be robbed at gun point (happens 2-3 times a year). We are also into a recession that is going to get much deeper.

Trans Ann · 07-09-2020 9:41am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

She should have retrained for it after she realised the shop could be robbed at gun point (happens 2-3 times a year). We are also into a recession that is going to get much deeper.

So what do you think she should do as her husband?

Airyfairy12 · 07-09-2020 1:56pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

She is looking for a property with a garage to convert. She is at that age when she doesnt have a degree and lets tell the truth the way it is..... recruiters and employers are ageist. They dont want to be hiring you the wrong side of 30 unless you have some amazing qualification. The attitude is hire them while they are young. Dont get me wrong she is a great manager with 20 years experience and she goes through managers every 18-24 months. She never kept up with CPD or done a course to elevate herself. In the same time period I probably did 5 private courses but she wanted money for holidays and travel. She became comfortable as a company fixxer (sorts things out on her day off and steps in an emergency) and the bosses darling at her own expense. Yes she should have done this years ago, but we cant change that now.

She wants to work for a year in order to gain experience. This lockdown hasnt allowed her talk to her hairdresser for advice.

I agree it's hard to find work but the idea that anyone over the age of 30 cant get employment because of ageism is nonsense.

You dont need qualifications to get a job, It certainly helps in some professions that require it but employers are more interested in experience, she has 20 years as an assistant manager, that is fantastic experience that will stand to her when she looks for further employment and will be very valuable for running her own salon.

Regarding speaking to a hairdresser, the lockdown has been lifted for months and hairdresser have been open since July, has she had a hair cut in that time? If she wants to ask a hairdresser that would be the perfect opportunity to bring it up in conversation but if she contacts her local ETB and speaks to the course coordinator of a hairdressing course they will be more than happy to help and point her in the right direction. Courses are starting up around this time so she should have no problem getting in touch with someone. Theyd be the best person to ask as they would be very up to date with the business, qualifications needed, costs etc involved in setting up a salon.

Regarding opening her own business, I hope this goes well for her but if she opens up a business after one year of working as a hairdresser and 7 months study, my worry would be that business wouldnt do well enough to sustain itself as she wouldnt have built up a reliable clientele within that time and you could both lose allot of money or worse, end up in debt. For the cost of setting up a business and spending 4k on a part time short course, it would cheaper to just do the full qualification and work for a few years.

When hairdressers qualify they generally work for a couple of years to build experience, the first year after qualifying is more like a training year in a salon, she would mostly be sweeping floors, working the till, making tea for customers and washing hair, she would only be permitted to cut and colour under the supervision of a senior stylist.

skooterblue2 · 07-09-2020 5:33pm

Trans Ann wrote: »

So what do you think she should do as her husband?

ohhhherrr. I usually get into trouble when I open my mouth. Apparently this is not a flying by the seat of her pants choice, that is my speciality. She has been thinking of this for a year. The number €4200 was way too much for us. Lets just say she negotiated with the school and we "found a number we were both comfortable with". We were very strategic and selective with our language and let him know what was in and out of budget.

I am letting her make her own decision and had no say in her choice of school or how much it should cost. Yes I would have prefered if she did it as part of an apprenticeship but time and cost are a reality her. There is going to be TONS of CPD afterwards. I am getting a little sick of the relatives of thinking they are all getting free cuts. Any hairdresser would laugh in your face if they heard anything less than €60 for a ladies cut, no respect for education, risk and training. If you think it is too expensive, go cut your own hair and wear it for a month. A Salon doesn't decorate, heat, insure and pay rates for free you know.

I think in 5 years she will be a nervous wreck after a few more robberies, hoards of kids robbing (Irish, african and traveller), incompetent managers and nursing new staff. It isnt when the ship is going down you start looking for the life boats. I only wished she did it 5 years before she met me.

The guy running the course said mature students often perform better as they are usually changing careers and have life experience. My dearest wife is customer focused and has 15 years management experience she is well prepared.

Dizzyblonde · 09-09-2020 11:18am

Your wife should absolutely do the course if it's something she's always wanted to do, but I'm afraid she just won't be experienced enough to get employment afterwards. It really does take 2 years on a salon floor to become fully trained and gain enough experience with all types of hair, colour, cuts etc. Hairdressing is one of those professions that a lot of people look at and think "I can do that", but not everyone can.
Also, unless a stylist is bringing a large clientele with them to a salon, employers prefer young staff. Something your wife might consider if she does the course is salon management. She'd have good insight into the trade and has management experience.

Edited to add: I was a hairdresser myself, and my daughter is a hairdresser.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-09-2020 5:07am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The guy running the course said mature students often perform better as they are usually changing careers and have life experience. My dearest wife is customer focused and has 15 years management experience she is well prepared.

7 months part time. Is nothing.

I trained 2 yrs full time as an apprentice. Then my EMPLOYER paid for me to do a course for a while then come back. And then I was a hairdresser. But I was only cutting /coloring under supervision. After six months i decided NOPE. I switched to working as a receptionist. Then got out of the industry totally.

I had a great boss. One of the few times i can't think of anything bad to say about a boss tbh. But it was just not for me.

She needs to get a job in a salon to see if she likes it first. Because its a lot of money if she doesn't.

I would NOT advise her to do a course. I did BOTH. The course AFTER the apprenticeship. She is still as good as a first year walking in to a salon. And they will still have her sweeping up hair for about 3 months washing hair etc ...anything that needs to be done and training her.

The way it works is ...if a client doesn't ask for someone ..then they give the client to the most senior or longest there ..then less senior ..so last in ...gets clients last. Unless they ask for you. So at first its hard to make money. Where I worked senior stylists would ask you to help them maybe do half a head of highlights etc. And give you some of the money. But there is no obligation to do this. And i have heard stories of a stylist asking the junior to start ..letting them almost finish and then giving them nothing.

Its a VERY hard physically demanding job. There aren't many hairdressers or stylists working on the floor after 45 ...it is mostly young people. There is a reason. The heat ..the standing ...and the arm work...THE CHEMICALS ...

In terms of getting a job in a salon ....her previous experience would be excellent to go get one right now. But the course won't add to that really. They will still think she needs to be trained in all skills. Plus you need a basic in all skills even if you only want to be a colourist. And the whole idea of getting a new stylist is to get their clients.

Something your wife might consider if she does the course is salon management. She'd have good insight into the trade and has management experience.

Salon management is a BRILLIANT idea.However she will need a bigger salon. Most smaller ones the management is done by a combination of the stylists and receptionists. Most in Ireland its a job undertaken by one of the senior stylists. I actually did a lot of salon management where i worked. that meant re ordering equipment etc supplies stock taking. Health and hygiene. Scheduling shifts. Taking appointments etc. Opening /closing ringing up the till. Speaking to companies etc on the phone. Placing orders. The ONLY thing i didn't do was book keeping. And she will NEED that. It was really the only thing that kept me from having the actual title I think. But if she went that route it would not take as long. And she would earn more. But the only issue is there would be FEWER jobs. And she would have to find a fairly big salon. But she would have a LOT of the skills she needs already.

Bare in mind though. Most managers on busy days ....can actually be asked to sweep the floor etc if its so busy there is no one else.

bobbyy gee · 15-09-2020 6:01am

with covid around for next 2 years this is the worst time to become a hairdresser
also covid spreads in hairdressers i think there no future as hairdressers
https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/daily-living/is-it-safe-hair-salon-high-risk-covid-19/

antix80 · 15-09-2020 6:17am

bobbyy gee wrote: »

with covid around for next 2 years this is the worst time to become a hairdresser
also covid spreads in hairdressers i think there no future as hairdressers

There's people who find a way to wedge covid into every conversation.

As long as people have hair there'll be hairdressers.

Hairdressers following covid guidelines means they can't be working on several clients at once meaning more demand for hairdressers - not less (maybe i should say, same demand but less supply) . Also, more demand for home visits.

Dizzyblonde · 15-09-2020 5:09pm

When I started out it was a 4 year apprenticeship and although you'd have been cutting, colouring etc long before the 4 years was up you wouldn't be on full wages until after it was finished. Same for my daughter when was training in more recent times. It's a very tough apprenticeship. You really have to do a lot of cleaning, making coffee, being sent out on errands etc. I've never met anyone who went into it over the age of 20 who stuck it out.

Hairdressing is unregulated so you can do a course, call yourself a hairdresser and set up shop but you'd have to have really good insurance cover for any possible mistakes. People take their hair very seriously. You wouldn't last long if you weren't turning out really good work.

bobbyy gee wrote: »

with covid around for next 2 years this is the worst time to become a hairdresser
also covid spreads in hairdressers i think there no future as hairdressers
https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/daily-living/is-it-safe-hair-salon-high-risk-covid-19/

Oh please. There will always be more work for hairdressers than they can cope with. Even during the lockdown a large amount of clients were begging to have their hair done. They'd have happily risked the virus.

skooterblue2 · 15-09-2020 7:00pm

She is on the course, its in full swing, loving it, got her mannequin heads, brushes, scissors and bits and bobs.
Its a mixture or retrains and "always wanted to be never had the time" Students.
Its only 8 months and certification from iTEC from the UK.
From what I can see in a few short days. Before you start the course be sure of yourself. You need to be 100% committed. The course fee is not refundable.
You need to see there is constant retraining and certification. It is very expensive to go into blindly. Turns out Mrs Skooter has been looking at the course for the last year and decided not to tell me.

My advice, go to the open days/nights, press the flesh, meet the other students. School supplies the standard kit (scissors,hairdryers, mannequins, uniforms and dyes). You need to buy other things like special gloves, aprons, clips and other small items.
There is theory and a good bit of undertanding needed both chemical make up and the structure of hair anatomy wise.

I am 100% behind her because convience shop retail is dead end and will wear you out over time.

skooterblue2 · 15-09-2020 7:14pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

with covid around for next 2 years this is the worst time to become a hairdresser
also covid spreads in hairdressers i think there no future as hairdressers

The great thing about the covid is we had the whole cash payment and could negotiate a price where other had to pay the full whack.
We had protracted negotiations with the course director where we werent sure and he knew we had cash and we told him we would wait until next year. He smelt money and cut a deal on the price. You cant do that with the universities.

There is no future in hairdressing? Every woman I know drops €70 every 6 weeks to see a hairdresser. They are full every Thursday, Friday and Saturday. If you are in the public eye you have to have great hair especially sales. Try going to an interview with crap hair especially as a woman. They say that you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Imagine you went to an interview looking like a badger rode your head the night before.

I am glad I am a guy and only spend €20 to see a barber (I used to get £8 cuts in college), I will never complain about spending money on the barber or on razor blades after seeing so much hair costs for women. Yes there is money out there if you are good and there is a captive audience that need to be maintained. I dont care if sweeping the floor in a salon, cutting and dyeing, selling cosmethics or the CEO of Revlon, there is money to be made.

ILoveYourVibes · 16-09-2020 11:09pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

When I started out it was a 4 year apprenticeship and although you'd have been cutting, colouring etc long before the 4 years was up you wouldn't be on full wages until after it was finished. .

Some people still do this kind of apprenticeship its also thought of as the 'best ' by some employers. I think though they just want people there the 2 extra years doing all the work of stylists but being paid half.

Glad your wife likes it though OP.

skooterblue2 · 16-09-2020 11:17pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Glad your wife likes it though OP.

She is sussing out who is who. A lot returning to education and retraining, A few foreigners training. There are NO youths which I find surprising but then that goes back to your "4 year apprenticeship". I expect all the youths want to do the apprenticeship and the PLC course. There is no handy way to do this course. Just go and do it.

My advice is go do this course when you are young as possible or as hobby if you are in a different profession after your other training. BTW I am in University and qualified chef and acupuncturist in other times.

Dizzyblonde · 16-09-2020 11:25pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Some people still do this kind of apprenticeship its also thought of as the 'best ' by some employers. I think though they just want people there the 2 extra years doing all the work of stylists but being paid half.

That's always been the case - junior stylists for 2 years doing the same work for half the wage. Having said that, I absolutely loved my job

ILoveYourVibes · 16-09-2020 11:32pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

That's always been the case - junior stylists for 2 years doing the same work for half the wage. Having said that, I absolutely loved my job

Yeah. There are some great people in the industry.

Had some good laughs.

skooterblue2 · 17-09-2020 12:05am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Y Had some good laughs.

Sharing is caring!!

skooterblue2 · 20-09-2020 9:50pm

Sweet Jeepers, just got more bills!!!!
Need a carry all bag, two hair dryers, aprons, non latex gloves more mannequins heads to cut. Just dropped another 400 euro.
Its the same as any other trade. Loads of hidden costs. We better be opening our own Salon in two years!!!

ILoveYourVibes · 21-09-2020 11:22pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Sweet Jeepers, just got more bills!!!!
Need a carry all bag, two hair dryers, aprons, non latex gloves more mannequins heads to cut. Just dropped another 400 euro.
Its the same as any other trade. Loads of hidden costs. We better be opening our own Salon in two years!!!

Yup ...i went through 2 mannequin heads a week and i was doing like 5 diff things on the one head until it was wrecked! It gets better when you move on to human heads (student classes give services for a reduced rate but only when you are at a certain stage).

Has she got her cutting kit yet? :cool:

skooterblue2 · 22-09-2020 10:33am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yup ...i went through 2 mannequin heads a week and i was doing like 5 diff things on the one head until it was wrecked! It gets better when you move on to human heads (student classes give services for a reduced rate but only when you are at a certain stage).

Has she got her cutting kit yet? :cool:

FFS!!! There is going to be little change out of €4k by the time we are done.
Then got told about this legendary scissors that was made in Japan by Ninja Japanese fish wives that cost €800 and another that was made by the finest swords maker with damascus steel that cost €1200 that were engraved (Dont look at me like that! I am a straight male, part of me hears things and other parts makes up its own parts to make the story sounds better:P:P).

Do NOT lend your tools, do not let down your tools (they will be robbed by your own sister). Do not cut anything with your shears only hair.
A Good scissors will last 25 years (I heard that one before).

Guess who is up for a shearing to night? BTW I am looking like a Worzel Gummidge extra

skooterblue2 · 22-09-2020 10:41am

Also She is getting her Hair dressing course.
She is also getting a Barbering course add on. She is getting a Beauty course. She is getting nutrition course as well. She got her Kit.

What have we learned?

Do your research long before enter the course. Meet and greet and what did the past students did and said.
Cash is KING, If you have the cash price in your hand you can negotiate a BIG /Discount.
Learn how to talk to course directors and how to negotiate. Be unsure when talking and look for an incentive and GET IT IN WRITING (written text email, negotiations may be protracted).
If you have something of value engrave it, it wont stop it being robbed but it will deter others.
Book the course late. IF there are a few days to go they will be desperate to fill a course.
Expect your Kit to cost money as a budgeted extra!!!

MIND YOUR TOOLS. There are tea leaves everywhere.

skooterblue2 · 22-09-2020 11:21am

Regards Certification?

Mrs SkooterBlue went with the less prestigious certification from City and Guilds.
"Yes it is impressive that trained at the top of the range place on Grafton Street, that is known in Ireland. But I never heard of it", may be the response or from someone who is jealous and hiring abroad.
We may be planning on travelling and that prestigious apprenticeship may not travel the same way as the standard C&G certification unless you are working or hired by an Irish hairdressers abroad.

It is not about the right or wrong choice but it was the right choice for us at our time of life. If you want to do a course do it when you are young and can do it at your leisure when you have options. I know so many who want to retrain but cannot.

Airyfairy12 · 22-09-2020 11:58am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Also She is getting her Hair dressing course.
She is also getting a Barbering course add on. She is getting a Beauty course. She is getting nutrition course as well. She got her Kit.

What have we learned?

Do your research long before enter the course. Meet and greet and what did the past students did and said.
Cash is KING, If you have the cash price in your hand you can negotiate a BIG /Discount.
Learn how to talk to course directors and how to negotiate. Be unsure when talking and look for an incentive and GET IT IN WRITING (written text email, negotiations may be protracted).
If you have something of value engrave it, it wont stop it being robbed but it will deter others.
Book the course late. IF there are a few days to go they will be desperate to fill a course.
Expect your Kit to cost money as a budgeted extra!!!

MIND YOUR TOOLS. There are tea leaves everywhere.

If a course costing 4k is desperate to fill spaces a few days before the starting date, that in itself should tell you everything. It's not a course many would recommend doing.

skooterblue2 · 22-09-2020 12:03pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If a course costing 4k is desperate to fill spaces a few days before the starting date, that in itself should tell you everything. It's not a course many would recommend doing.

The course was 92% full already there were two place vacant. Those two place were vacant and would be unsold. From the course directors point of view you are better with a student on a discount rate than a vacant seat and no cash. Of course we gave him the "maybe next year" spiel. If money walks out the door it is gone and you failed and lost that sale. The instructor know that if he didnt make that sale there and then, he might not make it next year or have to offer a further discount. The course is good my wife did her homework.

ILoveYourVibes · 22-09-2020 11:26pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Also She is getting her Hair dressing course.
She is also getting a Barbering course add on. She is getting a Beauty course. She is getting nutrition course as well. She got her Kit.

What have we learned?

Do your research long before enter the course. Meet and greet and what did the past students did and said.
Cash is KING, If you have the cash price in your hand you can negotiate a BIG /Discount.
Learn how to talk to course directors and how to negotiate. Be unsure when talking and look for an incentive and GET IT IN WRITING (written text email, negotiations may be protracted).
If you have something of value engrave it, it wont stop it being robbed but it will deter others.
Book the course late. IF there are a few days to go they will be desperate to fill a course.
Expect your Kit to cost money as a budgeted extra!!!

MIND YOUR TOOLS. There are tea leaves everywhere.

That makes no sense.

Hairdressers are better at doing blokes hair than barbers. Any hairdressing course should include everything in a barber course and more. If she IS REALLY doing a proper hairdressing course ..she would be well able to do men's hair way better than any barber ...so that means you have paid for something you do not need.

There should be NO need for a hairdresser to do a barbering course after their training but the opposite is true. Barbers recieve far less training than hairdressers.

You have said its a seven month course ....and she is doing beauty and nutrition as well ?

Well then there is no way she will have time to become a fully qualified hairdresser in 7 months WITH all that on top.

This course sounds awful.

I don't think you understand how the industry works.

She HAS to be able to do hair well if not perfectly ...every time ..no **** ups.

Does she get any kind of placement? Internship etc for a few months?

What hairdressing skills are they actually going to teach her?

BTW City and Guilds IS the international qualification. But it depends on what level you have it to.

I have city guilds NVQ level 3. (combined hair types). Its the bog standard qualification in the industry. But i also have my apprenticeship from the place i did it etc.

Its not as simple as you do a course.

You have to have a certain no of guided hrs (500) and working hours to build up your credits.

Guided hrs are ..like under supervision or taught.

Im kind of sceptical you could learn everything you need to in 7 months ..but everything you need AND beauty AND nutrition ...not convinced.

Nobody cares what qualification she will have. They just care she can do everything from bayalage to cutting and get it right everytime on all hair types. She also has to be able to work quickly and neatly.

Dont be surprised if after the course they still want her to do the apprenticeship in most salons unless its more flexible now then when i was doing it!

skooterblue2 · 22-09-2020 11:49pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That makes no sense.

Hairdressers are better at doing blokes hair than barbers. Any hairdressing course should include everything in a barber course and more. If she IS REALLY doing a proper hairdressing course ..she would be well able to do men's hair way better than any barber ...so that means you have paid for something you do not need.

There should be NO need for a hairdresser to do a barbering course after their training but the opposite is true. Barbers recieve far less training than hairdressers.

You have said its a seven month course ....and she is doing beauty and nutrition as well ?

Well then there is no way she will have time to become a fully qualified hairdresser in 7 months WITH all that on top.

This course sounds awful.

I don't think you understand how the industry works.

She HAS to be able to do hair well if not perfectly ...every time ..no **** ups.

Does she get any kind of placement? Internship etc for a few months?

What hairdressing skills are they actually going to teach her?

BTW City and Guilds IS the international qualification. But it depends on what level you have it to.

I have city guilds NVQ level 3. (combined hair types). Its the bog standard qualification in the industry.

Its not as simple as you do a course.

You have to have a certain no of guided hrs (500) and working hours to build up your credits.

Guided hrs are ..like under supervision or taught.

You are right I have no idea about anything about hairdressing. I am learning it second hand from the wife after 3 days.

Any hairdresser I have had do my hair left mine in a shambles. I never had a good cut until I was 25!!! Just thought that a barbers and hairdressers was the same thing. LOL how naive I was.

Well the barbering course is separate course and takes in shaving. Its an extra piece of paper. Who are we to refuse?

The nutrition is a separate course and the Beauty is a separate course.

I am NOT on the course myself but she is getting her certification. Trust me if Shampoo and conditioner werent written on the bottle I wouldnt know the difference or care.

What are they teaching her? I occasionally look over her should so she is doing the physiology of hair, chemical interactions, health safety, hair up styles hair down styles, washing hair, colouring hair.

I understand there is loads of CPD courses to beat the band.

I am a straight male, I have no interest in hair styling but I do look in, I dont have all the technical jargon. I am just learning too.

No placement or internship but Mrs Skooter is more than competent to sort that out herself.

In all fairness she isnt a 19 year old glued to the phone, switching between apps and chatting about going out the weekend to her colleague at the same time. She has proven herself at management level. The first hair she cut was mine and it was better as my mothers hairdresser normally did at home (The hair dresser with 20 year exp was dire). So It was a great first attempt.

She is going to be amazing and she has great customer focus.

ILoveYourVibes · 22-09-2020 11:54pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What are they teaching her? I occasionally look over her should so she is doing the physiology of hair, chemical interactions, health safety, hair up styles hair down styles, washing hair, colouring hair.

You are very naive. But good luck to her.
I think you have been ripped off but anyway.

You know what you have described is basically a 1st year trainee level? Or maybe even the first six months.

skooterblue2 · 23-09-2020 12:11am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You are very naive. But good luck to her.
I think you have been ripped off but anyway.

You know what you have described is basically a 1st year trainee level? Or maybe even the first six months.

It takes 4 years to do a level 3 fetac course ..... now that is taking the Mick.
That is dragged out longer than it needs to be.
I did see her text book and there is a good bit of theory a kin to the same its about 2.5 cm thick.

Airyfairy12 · 23-09-2020 12:19am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It takes 4 years to do a level 3 fetac course ..... now that is taking the Mick.
That is dragged out longer than it needs to be.
I did see her text book and there is a good bit of theory a kin to the same its about 2.5 cm thick.

It does not take 4 years to do a fetac level 3, thats equivalent to junior cert level, you would finish a level 3 in a year part time.
A fetac level 6 takes 2 years full time, 4 years part time.
Its not a Bachelors degree she's undertaking.

skooterblue2 · 23-09-2020 12:35am

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

It does not take 4 years to do a fetac level 3, thats equivalent to junior cert level, you would finish a level 3 in a year part time.
A fetac level 6 takes 2 years full time, 4 years part time.
Its not a Bachelors degree she's undertaking.

That sounds more like sense and what it is.

ILoveYourVibes · 23-09-2020 2:09am

skooterblue2 wrote: »

It takes 4 years to do a level 3 fetac course ..... now that is taking the Mick.
That is dragged out longer than it needs to be.
I did see her text book and there is a good bit of theory a kin to the same its about 2.5 cm thick.

4 years apprenticeship was dragged out so they could get income out of you as you took clients before you moved on. 'Trainees' would be do clients and have most of that income going to someone else.

People realized this and started to make more options for people. So you could do 3 year and 2 year apprenticeships and get the same qualification.Most apprenticeships seem to be 3 years now.

It was seen as modernizing the industry but lots of people still do the 4 year apprenticeship and its probably the most respected way to become qualified in the industry. The NCQ levels and city guilds etc were just ways of showing certification if you left the country etc.

By the way .every apprentice GETS the city and guilds qualification at some point during their apprenticeship.

She isn't doing a degree its a TRADE. Its like 4 years to be come an electrician.

this is a one year course ....that offers an apprenticeship at the end ..and its like 400 euro.
https://www.cdcfe.ie/courses/hairdressing/

From what you are saying it doesnt sound like she will be fully qualifed when she finishes and will still have to do some sort of apprenticeship at the end.
I hope she knows this.

I did see her text book and there is a good bit of theory a kin to the same its about 2.5 cm thick.

You need to know the theory. But its a practical profession ...it can take years to become a good colorist or decent at cutting etc.

Its not something you can bluff your way through. Its a skill like being a good carpenter etc. Or a good mechanic.

Generally 1st year would be what you described you learn styling etc hair theory ...all the theory you will need regarding colour perming ..while you practise the basics of blow drying ..then the last six months of the first year you do colour ...2nd year perming ..and later part of 2nd year or 3rd year cutting. Cutting is usually the last thing you learn. From then on you are just on the floor either for the last two years or the last year ..depending on how fast you learn.

Even then after four years a lot of places want people with 2 years MORE experience.

4k seems like a lot.

Faith · 23-09-2020 8:49am

Maybe, OP, if you shared details of the course (name, website, etc), people here could have a look for themselves and it might save you having to answer a lot of the questions? I'm sure a legit course will have all the details of apprenticeships, qualifications, etc on their website for all to clearly see.

Dizzyblonde · 23-09-2020 8:10pm

All I can say is that as a hairdresser myself, expensive courses such as this make me very angry.

There are no shortcuts into hairdressing, and there is no way anyone would be employable as a qualified stylist at the end of it. Yes, a four year apprenticeship is unnecessary, but there is just no replacement for a minimum of two years on a salon floor learning every aspect of your craft and dealing with every possible style/colour/type of hair over and over. Learning to blow dry all sorts of hair, and to colour hair properly, and to cut all types of hair. At best, these courses will shave a small amount of time off an apprenticeship in a salon setting.

OP, if your wife sets herself up in business as a hairstylist at the end of this course I'm afraid she's going to find herself way out of her depth.

skooterblue2 · 23-09-2020 9:55pm

Faith wrote: »

Maybe, OP, if you shared details of the course (name, website, etc), people here could have a look for themselves and it might save you having to answer a lot of the questions? I'm sure a legit course will have all the details of apprenticeships, qualifications, etc on their website for all to clearly see.

Well you see if I told you the course, she was the only one who paid cash up front and got a discount. That could cause friction in the class later on.

I hope you wont be disappointed if I dont have permission to share. That would draw negative attention to my wife. There are commercial partners for the course (Big recognisable brands even to me).

skooterblue2 · 23-09-2020 10:01pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

All I can say is that as a hairdresser myself, expensive courses such as this make me very angry.

There are no shortcuts into hairdressing, and there is no way anyone would be employable as a qualified stylist at the end of it. Yes, a four year apprenticeship is unnecessary, but there is just no replacement for a minimum of two years on a salon floor learning every aspect of your craft and dealing with every possible style/colour/type of hair over and over. Learning to blow dry all sorts of hair, and to colour hair properly, and to cut all types of hair. At best, these courses will shave a small amount of time off an apprenticeship in a salon setting.

OP, if your wife sets herself up in business as a hairstylist at the end of this course I'm afraid she's going to find herself way out of her depth.

You think €4,200 is expensive for a course? Wait until I tell you about University or post graduate stuff. Its a cheap course for a job that will always in demand and done in a short time. I am starting my university course costing €9k a year for the next 4 years and then have to do a masters afterwards. Education is expensive.

Hairdressing and Acupuncture are like painting, the more you do the better you get. Nobody is saying it is the final qualification.

Dizzyblonde · 23-09-2020 10:16pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

You think €4,200 is expensive for a course? Wait until I tell you about University or post graduate stuff. Its a cheap course for a job that will always in demand and done in a short time. I am starting my university course costing €9k a year for the next 4 years and then have to do a masters afterwards. Education is expensive.

Hairdressing and Acupuncture are like painting, the more you do the better you get. Nobody is saying it is the final qualification.

You don't have to explain the cost of education to me, I've raised a family and know precisely what university costs at all levels. Hairdressing is not education and can't be approached in the same way. It is a trade, and is practical training and experience for the most part. You can't buy experience. I hate to tell you, but if you've paid €4,200 or anything close to it you've been royally ripped off.

I've seen your approach to hairdressing before, always in people who aren't hairdressers, and tbh it's quite naive. It will be interesting to see how many people drop out of the course before it's finished. Many apprentices drop out because not everyone has the ability or the patience for hairdressing.

skooterblue2 · 23-09-2020 10:32pm

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

I've seen your approach to hairdressing before, always in people who aren't hairdressers, and tbh it's quite naive. It will be interesting to see how many people drop out of the course before it's finished. Many apprentices drop out because not everyone has the ability or the patience for hairdressing.

Yeah I have seen kids getting apprenticeships before and not understanding them. They see the softer money working in the factory and other things and leave. Yes it is a problem but that is with kids these are all mature students. It was addressed on the course that younger people have shorter attention spans and haven't developed professional skills. I do realise it takes time to build a practice or business.

Airyfairy12 · 23-09-2020 10:47pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Yeah I have seen kids getting apprenticeships before and not understanding them. They see the softer money working in the factory and other things and leave. Yes it is a problem but that is with kids these are all mature students. It was addressed on the course that younger people have shorter attention spans and haven't developed professional skills. I do realise it takes time to build a practice or business.

Comparing the price of a hairdressing course to a BA in a University is ridiculous OP, I don't know how or why youre drawing any comparison between the two.

If you can afford to spend 9K a year for 4 years surely your wife can invest her time and money in a full time 2 year hairdressing course that will give her the knowledge and skills that she needs.

Keep in mind, when she finishes her 7 month part time course she will be competing for jobs against people who have the full qualification + at least a year of experience.

If you dont mind me saying, youre sounding completely out of touch. If you think your wife will be setting up a lucrative business in 7 months to a years time you are very much mistaken. You are setting yourselves up for some serious debt in the coming years if you dont go about this the right way which is unfortunately the long way.

Dizzyblonde · 23-09-2020 10:49pm

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Yeah I have seen kids getting apprenticeships before and not understanding them. They see the softer money working in the factory and other things and leave. Yes it is a problem but that is with kids these are all mature students. It was addressed on the course that younger people have shorter attention spans and haven't developed professional skills. I do realise it takes time to build a practice or business.

I would say on balance that older apprentices are far more likely to drop out, and mainly because of the workload and menial tasks required of them during training. The lower wage won't get in the way of a young apprentice who really wants to be a hairdresser.
No course will get you out of cleaning mirrors, sweeping up hair and being sent to the shop for a qualified stylist's lunch when you move on to a salon to finish your training.

Dizzyblonde · 23-09-2020 11:19pm

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Comparing the price of a hairdressing course to a BA in a University is ridiculous OP, I don't know how or why youre drawing any comparison between the two.

If you can afford to spend 9K a year for 4 years surely your wife can invest her time and money in a full time 2 year hairdressing course that will give her the knowledge and skills that she needs.

Keep in mind, when she finishes her 7 month part time course she will be competing for jobs against people who have the full qualification + at least a year of experience.

If you dont mind me saying, youre sounding completely out of touch. If you think your wife will be setting up a lucrative business in 7 months to a years time you are very much mistaken. You are setting yourselves up for some serious debt in the coming years if you dont go about this the right way which is unfortunately the long way.

Wait - it's only part time? I would class that course an introduction to hairdressing. She'll still have to go into any reputable salon at the bottom.

skooterblue2 · 24-09-2020 12:14am

Mrs SkooterBlue would like to thank you all for your time and experience.

Mod- would you kindly close the post. Thank you to all involved.

Hairdressing course

Comments