What Whisky/Whiskey are we drinking this month?

Cazale · 21-09-2020 10:03pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Bunnahabhain Tasting tonight had 4 excellent whiskys. I'd only tried the 12 before. The 18 stood out. Might treat myself to a bottle.

Did this tasting tonight. Really enjoyed it. The 18 and the Toiteach A Dha were my picks.

killbillvol2 · 21-09-2020 10:26pm

Cazale wrote: »

Did this tasting tonight. Really enjoyed it. The 18 and the Toiteach A Dha were my picks.

I bought the 12, 18 and Toiteach a Dha in a fit of indecision!

Cazale · 22-09-2020 8:21am

killbillvol2 wrote:

I bought the 12, 18 and Toiteach a Dha in a fit of indecision!

Haha good man!

Starlord_01 · 22-09-2020 8:45am

Anyone know what Jameson are teasing on their Instagram page? 3rd post to be exact.

Mellor · 22-09-2020 8:54am

Starlord_01 wrote: »

Anyone know what Jameson are teasing on their Instagram page? 3rd post to be exact.

It's from around the day the Crested Stout was promoted. But it's not the same bottle.

Starlord_01 · 22-09-2020 9:05am

Mellor wrote: »

It's from around the day the Crested Stout was promoted. But it's not the same bottle.

I'm not sure it is.

One of their comments: "Keep an eye on our channels over the next while"

lawrencesummers · 22-09-2020 9:15am

Bit of a ‘thing‘ breaking out on IG with Becky Paskin calling out the sexual references of Jim Murray’s Whiskey Bible.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFWy3DEM9mf/?igshid=54h3raax04c5

I guess it’s part of a wider debate depending on what angle you view it from - misogyny / #metoo / cancel culture / Objectification of women etc etc.

Personally I’ve never read his ‘bible’ or any bible for that matter but the quotes she uses to demonstrate her point just look like **** journalism from a fairly perverted individual to me.

Is anyone a fan of the book?

Black Sheep · 22-09-2020 10:17am

To be honest, no, I don't think she gives a fair assessment of Jim Murray or his writing.

I suspect her goal is to generate some publicity and discussion, and she's succeeded in that, as off the back of your post I did go and read her comments.

She criticises Murray on the grounds that his writing in the Whisky Bible is 'sexist' and 'vulgar'.

To me the two are quite distinct.

To be 'vulgar' is somewhat subjective. Many great writers are vulgar (Stephen King is the one that always springs to mind for me, he's obsessed with bodily processes). I think some of my colleagues are vulgar, but they probably think I've got a stick up my arse. Someone might think me talking about a stick up my arse is itself vulgar...

Anyway, She criticises Murray's 'explicit language'... Actually, I think by most people's standards he's not that explicit and if even the material she quotes strikes anyone as risqué or perverted then I guess I must have a higher threshold than I thought. She's also cherry-picked less than 40 references from a Whisky Bible that has hundreds and hundreds of entries, so ... I'm not even sure he's that vulgar, really.

But anyway, if she thinks that vulgar journalism in the whisky community should be policed, then... I'm sorry, I just don't agree, it's very reactionary.

To be 'sexist' is, it is fair to say, more objectively wrong.

It's true that Murray writes freely about sex and that metaphor is a common one for him. But does that make him sexist? I'd argue not, actually. It might make him come across as a bit cringeworthy or like your uncool dad making reference to how hot your mum was back in the day... But I don't believe he crosses the line into creepiness or objectification.

He does mention seduction, but funnily enough it's in the context of seducing or being seduced by "the woman in your life". Err, that's pretty wholesome, actually! Married people in relationships are OK to engage in a bit of seduction last time I checked, as long as it's not with someone outside the relationship.

In fairness to her I don't think she makes any reference to him being misogynistic or perverted, which you mention in your post.

The closing argument is that his language cements the idea that whisky is a 'man's drink' and does damage to the broadening of whisky's appeal, progress within the community and so on. To be honest Murray won't be to everyone's taste, but absurd to claim the choice of language and use of sex as a metaphor in his tiny little reference book casts such a long shadow. She must have a pretty poor assessment of womens' ability to stand up for themselves, but really I just question whether she's not tilting at windmills here. This ample nonsense and unacceptable behaviour out there, this just isn't it.

Last thing to say: I'm actually not that big a fan of Murray's. I have a few of his Bibles and I did order 2021, but I read them more for entertainment than necessarily taking him as Whisky God (Which presumably the author of the Whisky Bible would be).

Black Sheep · 22-09-2020 10:39am

Interesting to read how much support she has for her post, in the comments.

I think there is a generational divide here around language and what is acceptable and what is not. But the vitriol in the comments is remarkable to me.... He's a misogynist, he's a tosser, he shouldn't be published, he's creepy, he's a pig, he needs to piss off, he's a relic... I'd like to think it's partly just that people express themselves in a very angry way on the internet, but ... wow.

Pretty sure Murray is self-published, however, so unless he either cancels himself or people stop buying the Bible he'll be blighting their lives for a while longer.

the beer revolu · 22-09-2020 10:52am

I had no idea Jim Murray wrote such garbage reviews of whisky.
I know the quotes are cherrypicked but, oh my, that's some sh1te, embarrassing writing!

Cazale · 22-09-2020 11:08am

Black Sheep wrote:

Pretty sure Murray is self-published, however, so unless he either cancels himself or people stop buying the Bible he'll be blighting their lives for a while longer.

The Whiskey exchange, Celtic Whiskey Shop and a load of distillery shops have decided to stop selling it. The 2019 edition I have contains 4700 reviews. I read it all the time and use it as a reference guide. It's far from perfect but it's probably been the single greatest source for me discovering new whiskeys and different releases from distilleries I've liked. Only last week I bought five Laphroaig samples based on the book. I don't always agree with the scores and some of his opinions infuriate me but that's the nature of reviews.

I've been thumbing through the book here the last few minutes and I couldn't find any reviews of a sexist nature. I'm sure there are a few risque references like the ones highlighted but people are going on like it's 120 days of sodom. I'm more upset over his vitriol over sherry finishes to be honest.

I'll buy the 2021 edition before the copies are all burnt.

killbillvol2 · 22-09-2020 11:36am

Cazale wrote: »

The Whiskey exchange, Celtic Whiskey Shop and a load of distillery shops have decided to stop selling it. The 2019 edition I have contains 4700 reviews. I read it all the time and use it as a reference guide. It's far from perfect but it's probably been the single greatest source for me discovering new whiskeys and different releases from distilleries I've liked. Only last week I bought five Laphroaig samples based on the book. I don't always agree with the scores and some of his opinions infuriate me but that's the nature of reviews.

I've been thumbing through the book here the last few minutes and I couldn't find any reviews of a sexist nature. I'm sure there are a few risque references like the ones highlighted but people are going on like it's 120 days of sodom. I'm more upset over his vitriol over sherry finishes to be honest.

I'll buy the 2021 edition before the copies are all burnt.

A friend of mine gives me a copy for Christmas every few years. I find it very handy for weeding out sh1te.

Jim Murray is obviously a dinosaur and I'm sure doesn't mix in the type of company that he offends.

Just randomly picked a good few reviews and didn't find any of the offending material. She appears to have done her research in depth for a thorough hit job. She could just as easily have asked him to tone down the salacious BS for the next addition.

lawrencesummers · 22-09-2020 1:09pm

Cazale wrote: »

The Whiskey exchange, Celtic Whiskey Shop and a load of distillery shops have decided to stop selling it. The 2019 edition I have contains 4700 reviews. I read it all the time and use it as a reference guide. It's far from perfect but it's probably been the single greatest source for me discovering new whiskeys and different releases from distilleries I've liked. Only last week I bought five Laphroaig samples based on the book. I don't always agree with the scores and some of his opinions infuriate me but that's the nature of reviews.

I've been thumbing through the book here the last few minutes and I couldn't find any reviews of a sexist nature. I'm sure there are a few risque references like the ones highlighted but people are going on like it's 120 days of sodom. I'm more upset over his vitriol over sherry finishes to be honest.

I'll buy the 2021 edition before the copies are all burnt.

The 2021 could Well become the Must have collectors item of the whiskey world!

I’ve never read it, had no intention of doing so either and less after reading how he writes, but not because some people might find it offensive, because I think those reviews that were quoted are just bad reviews.

I grew up around the time that Diet Coke was launched with women in mind and a topless man drinking a can of it at ever advertisement break on TV, That doesn’t bother me and I can’t see how anyone would be offended, and if someone is offended by this then just don’t read it.

lawrencesummers · 22-09-2020 1:11pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

A friend of mine gives me a copy for Christmas every few years. I find it very handy for weeding out sh1te.

Jim Murray is obviously a dinosaur and I'm sure doesn't mix in the type of company that he offends.

Just randomly picked a good few reviews and didn't find any of the offending material. She appears to have done her research in depth for a thorough hit job. She could just as easily have asked him to tone down the salacious BS for the next addition.

I think that’s an important point, she seems to have the goal of extinction in mind instead of change. Maybe clarifying what is wrong and writing an open letter to ask for change is a better idea instead of seeking a war.

BonnieSituation · 22-09-2020 1:32pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I think that’s an important point, she seems to have the goal of extinction in mind instead of change. Maybe clarifying what is wrong and writing an open letter to ask for change is a better idea instead of seeking a war.

But that doesn't get as much attention though as you and others have so eloquently said above.

gozunda · 22-09-2020 2:29pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Interesting to read how much support she has for her post, in the comments.

I think there is a generational divide here around language and what is acceptable and what is not. But the vitriol in the comments is remarkable to me.... He's a misogynist, he's a tosser, he shouldn't be published, he's creepy, he's a pig, he needs to piss off, he's a relic... I'd like to think it's partly just that people express themselves in a very angry way on the internet, but ... wow.

Pretty sure Murray is self-published, however, so unless he either cancels himself or people stop buying the Bible he'll be blighting their lives for a while longer.

As detailed it's part of the whole toxic 'cancel culture' and virtue signalling than seems to be endemic atm.

All from the stable of Intolerance and social media screamers ...

Black Sheep · 22-09-2020 2:50pm

To be honest I think less of the Celtic Whisky Shop and The Whisky Exchange for stopping to stock his books. It seems knee-jerk. If most of us here are actually only agreeing he has written some poor reviews ... Should that be grounds for taking him off the shelves?

Strictly speaking he's not 'cancelled' because I guess he can continue to sell his book direct to customer, or in other retailers, but still seems weirdly punitive when there isn't a whole lot of compelling evidence there is anything morally unacceptable about what he has written.

Black Sheep · 22-09-2020 3:10pm

The one question I did have, and perhaps others can advise me... Is there a business motive for the retailers and distillers to try to take Murray down?

Does his Whisky Bible have an effect on whisky prices or the market that some of these retailers don't like? To be honest I would have thought even if his reviews are a bit silly or contrarian then they are the ultimate winners... More publicity, more sales, jacked up prices for his highly scored drinks?

Just wondering if there is anything else at play.

lawrencesummers · 22-09-2020 3:27pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

The one question I did have, and perhaps others can advise me... Is there a business motive for the retailers and distillers to try to take Murray down?

Does his Whisky Bible have an effect on whisky prices or the market that some of these retailers don't like? To be honest I would have thought even if his reviews are a bit silly or contrarian then they are the ultimate winners... More publicity, more sales, jacked up prices for his highly scored drinks?

Just wondering if there is anything else at play.

Just the fear of being Highlighted as the one that doesn’t do anything I suppose and the negative publicity that brings.

Cazale · 22-09-2020 7:09pm

My two passions in life are Bob Dylan and whiskey but if I had to choose one forever I wouldn't hesitate to say goodbye to whiskey. So I was delighted to hear he has released a new episode of his theme time radio show for the first time in 11.5 years. Each show Dylan picks a specific theme and plays songs and tells stories based on it. I was even more delighted to hear that the theme of this new episode is whiskey. Apparently he shares a few whiskey cocktail recipes and stories from the Clancy brothers about drinking whiskey.

Dylan has his own whiskey called Heavens Door so I have procured my own sample of Double Barrel to try while I listen along. Now this being Bob Dylan it ain't no Proper 12.

Currently €135 in Celtic Whiskey Shop with a Straight Rye and Tennessee Bourbon also released at €102 each. It's going to be a great couple of hours.

https://www.celticwhiskeyshop.com/Heaven's%20Door%20Double%20Barrel

Mellor · 22-09-2020 11:28pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The 2021 could Well become the Must have collectors item of the whiskey world!

Wouldn’t it be more likely that it would be everywhere and easy to pick up?

lawrencesummers · 23-09-2020 7:59am

Mellor wrote: »

Wouldn’t it be more likely that it would be everywhere and easy to pick up?

Judging by the amount of places dropping it it’s safe to say it won’t be everywhere, but there might be plenty of copies alright!

Mellor · 23-09-2020 9:23am

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Judging by the amount of places dropping it it’s safe to say it won’t be everywhere, but there might be plenty of copies alright!

By everywhere, I was meant the places that retain it don’t sell out, so it’s never rare or valuable.

Although even if a particular edition became rare. I can’t imagine it becoming valuable

Twee. · 23-09-2020 10:11am

Louise McGuane has a piece up today around "Murraygate". https://whiskeygate.wordpress.com/2020/09/23/murraygate-is-not-about-words-its-about-respect-for-women-who-work-in-the-whiskey-industry/

As a woman in the drinks industry thankfully I've never been sexually harassed (comments here and there but nothing dangerous) but I have had my opinion shot down, I've been grilled by consumers (!) at drinks events in a way that my male colleagues have never, I have been asked stupid basic questions by industry professionals that were asked in a way to "prove" my understanding of the subject, I've been advised that the certain drink I've ordered is strong or expensive - was I sure I wanted that, I've sat in meetings for million-euro businesses who didn't even consider women as a viable target market. This whole thing has just lifted the lid on many real-world experiences, the less gendered and sexualised crap going around the better.

Cazale · 23-09-2020 10:28am

Picked this one up. Have Ballykilcavan 1.1, Bannow Island 1.1 and Ratheadon 1.1 already so it'll be interesting to try the nine samples together.

Waterford Collection Tasting Set £39.95

A Perfect Measure tasting set for Virtual Whisky Show 2020, exploring the range of whiskies and new makes from Waterford distillery. This set includes a 3cl sample bottle of each of the following: Douhogmore new make, The Rocks new make, Ballykilcavan 1.2, Bannow Island 1.2, Ballymorgan 1.1 and Sheestown 1.1.

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/55977/waterford-collection-tasting-set-6x3cl

killbillvol2 · 23-09-2020 1:19pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I bought the 12, 18 and Toiteach a Dha in a fit of indecision!

Delivery arrived from CWS with a bottle of Stiùireadair instead of the 18 year old. Now mistakes happen but that's a pretty big one. When I contacted them they were more concerned with how I'd return the Stiùireadair than with how they'd get the 18yo to me. Very unimpressed.

Mellor · 23-09-2020 2:13pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Delivery arrived from CWS with a bottle of Stiùireadair instead of the 18 year old. Now mistakes happen but that's a pretty big one. When I contacted them they were more concerned with how I'd return the Stiùireadair than with how they'd get the 18yo to me. Very unimpressed.

I won a bottle of Nikka at Christmas. But Master of Malt sent me the wrong bottle, worth about the same. They apologised, sent a replacement and told me to keep the mistaken bottle.

You think they’d go the same route given you bought a few bottles.

Black Sheep · 23-09-2020 2:59pm

Cazale wrote: »

You should track some of this down for him...

Possibly the most bizarre whisky ever offered for sale, Fishky was a single cask Bruichladdich finished in a Sherry cask that then underwent a secondary period of finishing at the hands of its German owners. For reasons known only to themselves, they chose an ex-herring cask for this purpose.

Mark Gillespie of described Fishky – bottled in 2007 at 50.2% abv – as ‘by far the worst whisky I’ve ever tasted… The nose hides the secrets of this whisky well, with notes of malt, brine, and heather.
‘The taste reveals all, though, with sour butyric baby vomit, brine and stomach acid. The finish is salty, greasy, and nasty, with no redeeming qualities.’

I’m speechless. That sounds so utterly vile....

I actually got a bottle of the kombu cask dispatched to him today! Now seems very tame.

Black Sheep · 23-09-2020 3:10pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Delivery arrived from CWS with a bottle of Stiùireadair instead of the 18 year old. Now mistakes happen but that's a pretty big one. When I contacted them they were more concerned with how I'd return the Stiùireadair than with how they'd get the 18yo to me. Very unimpressed.

My wife had a mare with them in relation to quite an expensive whisky last year. Ordered, paid, then delayed... And delayed... Then told they didn’t have it in stock after all. It wasn’t the error, if that’s what it was, it was the run-around involved.

The bigger Uk operators do have better customer service but on the other hand I do want to support the likes of the CWS, so...

Black Sheep · 23-09-2020 7:32pm

Just reading Jim Murray’s intro to the 2021 bible ... He was somewhat prescient...

He wrote he had struggled “With the imprisoning advent of Covid 19, [and] with the continued pressure of now being in an increasingly humourless society hell-bent on apportioning blame and embracing a new form of Puritanism”. ...Little did he know!

Seems like all the industry folk, critics, bloggers, twitterers and assorted hangers-on have come out and dutifully said their bit at this stage. Last post on the subject... Back to actual whisky... Should I order a few Compass Box bottles? What’s a good one along with the Spice Tree? hmmm

What Whisky/Whiskey are we drinking this month?

Comments