Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Plumbthedepths · 21-09-2020 06:22PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't know why I'm even bothering responding to you to be honest, but this nonsense needs to be called out.

Watch the news or stick on the radio. The fear out there is real and the damage its doing to people's mental health is very real. And it's unjustified and only exacerbating the situation.

All your childish digs (and it's a common thing among the "lockdown" advocates) doesn't change that - just exposes your argument for the paper-thin waffle it is.

I dislike using the ignore function, but for some people its the only option you have to deal with them. Unfortunately their nonsense comes up in a 'quote'.

MadYaker · 21-09-2020 06:49PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is very concerning hearing people texting into Newstallk today calling for stuff like "tough action" and curfews. Looks like the goal of creating maximum hysteria over the weekend house parties has been achieved. :rolleyes:

All this for a virus that doesn't significantly (or at all) affect 95% of the population...

Why do you keep posting these lies?

BoatMad · 21-09-2020 06:49PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Why do you keep posting these lies?

Where’s the lie

weldoninhio · 21-09-2020 06:50PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

All rubbish, most of the locations you mention were closed in the lockdown. Perks were closed, nature spots were closed, beeches were closed.

There was talk of an very occasional house party but they were rare and there was certainly no street parties or no households mixing very much if at all. Kids were even totally stopped going out to play (and rightly so) at the height of the lockdown.

People were not leaving their 2km in general, they weren’t mixing and they were just staying at home as we were told (and legally obliged to do).

You are living in some fantasy land imagining the majority of people were not highly respected the lockdown and hence we massive suppressed the virus.

Ok, so this didn’t happen and the video is fake??

https://www.irishpost.com/news/watch-anger-dozens-attend-hours-long-street-party-dublin-estate-183928

The Lord Mayor was lying?
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-dublin-streetparty-video-warning-18155376

Irish Times making up stories and faking photos?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/large-gatherings-reported-throughout-state-on-bank-holiday-1.4268095

Irish times again lying and doctoring pictures??
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/beshoff-bros-closing-shops-after-footage-emerges-of-long-queues-1.4209821

Indo lying this time?
https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/crowds-and-irresponsible-behaviour-raise-coronavirus-concerns-at-popular-parks-and-walks-39057491.html

You are full of sh1t.

21-09-2020 06:52PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is very concerning hearing people texting into Newstallk today calling for stuff like "tough action" and curfews. Looks like the goal of creating maximum hysteria over the weekend house parties has been achieved. :rolleyes:

All this for a virus that doesn't significantly (or at all) affect 95% of the population...

Great to hear that the situation is being taken serious by most people in the country and not the borderline covid deniers in here.

BoatMad · 21-09-2020 06:56PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well done Susie, hope the new job goes really well.
I am at the opposite end of things. I worked throughout Covid - on a contract, in a Government department. I was let go last week along with all my colleagues who were on contract (despite what many people think, not all Public sector workers have job security!). Week 1 of unemployment and I am now on €300 a week and anxious about this Winter, especially if its cold and bills are high.

On a separate note, I did lockdown alone as both my daughters lived abroad, Vancouver and Canada. I found it very tough and very lonely although I was thankful to have the distraction of work.

My daughter from Canada returned home to live in July along with her husband, toddler of 15 months, plus she is now 7 months pregnant again. They all tested positive for Covid last week and are isolating in Limerick along with her mother in law who got it. She is 60 and quite unfit and overweight but she is not very sick at all, is working from home and coping fine with Covid. My daughter and toddler have mild symptoms.
NOBODY needed a doctor or hospitalisation thankfully and seem no worse than if they had a very bad cold.

I think this time round people are not getting as sick thankfully and I think the Government's reaction is hugely skewed in favour of public health over everything else. There is more to public health than just Covid 19. There are cancer and other illnesses that are being missed, there are long term chronic illnesses going untreated, no screenings, no clinics, issues of mental health etc.
We have a spike in cases now but very few hospital admissions and very few deaths (thankfully) In my opinion there is a serious imbalance in the way we are dealing with Covid in Ireland.

Not only an “ imbalance “ a bizarre attempt to gain a state that eludes the efforts resulting in doubling down and more evidence that the problem isn’t being fixed
Most people would call that insane by now. But we as sheep , simply go “ these experts must be right “

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 06:56PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Great to hear that the situation is being taken serious by most people in the country and not the borderline covid deniers in here.

No-one has denied CV-19 exists, or that it's dangerous to some people.... Just nowhere near as many as is being made out. About 5% as I said above.

But let's say the Government took your advice and locked everything down completely. CV-19 spread gets to zero.. great! Now what?? Do we stay locked down until every other country we trade with, travel to or have visitors from gets to zero too? How do you propose to pay for the economic cost of that?

I'm serious.. have you any actual supporting ideas for the "lockdown everything" stuff?

MadYaker · 21-09-2020 07:00PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No-one has denied CV-19 exists, or that it's dangerous to some people.... Just nowhere near as many as is being made out. About 5% as I said above.

But let's say the Government took your advice and locked everything down completely. CV-19 spread gets to zero.. great! Now what?? Do we stay locked down until every other country we trade with, travel to or have visitors from gets to zero too? How do you propose to pay for the economic cost of that?

I'm serious.. have you any actual supporting ideas for the "lockdown everything" stuff?

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

I guarantee if you ask around your circle of family and friends you will find a good few people who have one or more of these things.

Paul Reid mentions it in this article towards the end https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/doctor-resigns-from-hospital-group-after-comments-on-draconian-covid-19-curbs-1.4356244?mode=amp

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 07:03PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

And yet despite that theory, deaths and hospitalisations remain minimal since late May and the deaths are overwhelmingly from the elderly/serious underlying condition demographic.

How do you account for this? Why haven't we seen hundreds dying because of complications from obesity?

MadYaker · 21-09-2020 07:05PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet despite that theory, deaths and hospitalisations remain minimal since late May and the deaths are overwhelmingly from the elderly/serious underlying condition demographic.

How do you account for this? Why haven't we seen hundreds dying because of complications from obesity?

It’s still mostly young people getting infected, under 40s. But we have seen an increase in hospitalisation and deaths over the last week or two as community transmission continues to increase and older people are getting infected. Most obese men tend to be over 40.

What I posted isn’t a theory it’s facts directly from the HSE.

BoatMad · 21-09-2020 07:06PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

I guarantee if you ask around your circle of family and friends you will find a good few people who have one or more of these things.

Paul Reid mentions it in this article towards the end https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/doctor-resigns-from-hospital-group-after-comments-on-draconian-covid-19-curbs-1.4356244%3Fmode%3Damp

Interesting I have several heavy friends

But no one I know has Covid ?

Simply being obese doesn’t mean you’ll get Covid, “risk “isn’t the same as “ sick”

Zebra3 · 21-09-2020 07:08PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No-one has denied CV-19 exists, or that it's dangerous to some people....

So many posters on here would be better off going to ranting and raving forum.

Full of lies.

Plumbthedepths · 21-09-2020 07:09PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s still mostly young people getting infected, under 40s. But we have seen an increase in hospitalisation and deaths over the last week or two as community transmission continues to increase and older people are getting infected. Most obese men tend to be over 40.

What I posted isn’t a theory it’s facts directly from the HSE.

So getting off their rear ends and exercising would be far more a benefit than expecting others to put their lives on hold to protect them.
That could be a positive of Covid encouraging the obese to cop on.

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 07:11PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s still mostly young people getting infected, under 40s. But we have seen an increase in hospitalisation and deaths over the last week or two as community transmission continues to increase and older people are getting infected. Most obese men tend to be over 40.

We had no deaths today and single digits over the last weeks - despite the "surge" in cases and passing the various incubation periods.

Something doesn't add up. What I honestly don't understand is why people like yourself continue to fight against this - surely this is a good thing? Do you WANT more people to get sick and die?

As I keep saying, and will continue to do so, new cases means nothing. Outcome of cases is the important metric and that continues to be overwhelming positive.

But people WILL unfortunately die. That's inevitable. We cannot however continue to put the needs of a thankfully small minority (who can far more effectively be protected through personal responsibility and help from their GP where needed) ahead of the needs of the majority and the economy/society at large.

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 07:13PM

BoatMad wrote: »

Interesting I have several heavy friends

But no one I know has Covid ?

Simply being obese doesn’t mean you’ll get Covid, “risk “isn’t the same as “ sick”

I can honestly say (and yes I'm just some randomer on the Internet) that I know no-one in my circle of friends who's had it or who has had anyone close to them have it. My close friends would all be mid-40s to mid-50s incidentally.

CalamariFritti · 21-09-2020 07:19PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

I guarantee if you ask around your circle of family and friends you will find a good few people who have one or more of these things.

Paul Reid mentions it in this article towards the end https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/doctor-resigns-from-hospital-group-after-comments-on-draconian-covid-19-curbs-1.4356244%3Fmode%3Damp

If you just had a look at positive tests and hospitalisations and Icu admission for the last 4 weeks or so then you would see that it isn't even 5%, more like barely 3% and ICU admissions is a fraction of that again at 0.2%.

And due to undetected positives and large numbers of asymptomatic you can most likely divide those numbers by 10 again.

30% wtf. Are we back to hundreds of thousands 'potentially' dying?

And before anyone says these are rubbish numbers, these numbers are from the HSE 14 day reports.

Thats not saying this thing doesnt exist or its harmless. 0.2% or even 0.05% is still a large absolute number that hospitals couldn't deal with. I'm not saying we can take our eyes off the ball. But we need to put things into perspective and stop the permanent overhyping out of some misguided virtue signalling or whatever it is. This has been going on from the start and it prevents a rationale response to this virus.

Edit: changed the numbers because I can only get the 14 day incident report for the last 4 weeks now.

BoatMad · 21-09-2020 07:22PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If you just had a look at positive tests and hospitalisations and Icu admission for the last 8 weeks or so then you would see that it isn't even 5%, more like barely 2% and ICU admissions is a fraction of that again. 30% wtf. Are we back to hundreds of thousand 'potentially' dying?

Yeah Based on a utterly flawed piece of junk predication modelling software

21-09-2020 07:34PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

I guarantee if you ask around your circle of family and friends you will find a good few people who have one or more of these things.

I just mentioned one page back that my daughter has Covid now, she is 7 months pregnant. She is fine and recovering (although due to the national pastime of fearmongering I was terrified when I found out) .
Her mother in law is over 60 , very heavy and very unfit . She also has it and she is fine and working from home. So of your theories "being over 60 and obese" are unfounded in this particular case. I know this is only one case but out of a household of 5 people , including a toddler, none of them even had to take to bed with Covid, all working from home and recovering fine .

The fear mongering and scare tactics have a lot of posters absolutely petrified. Most people are recovering fine and didnt even need to see a doctor or go to hospital!

Penfailed · 21-09-2020 07:37PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not 5% it’s more like 30%. Anyone who is obese (20% of all men in the country are obese) then you have anyone over 60 that’s another big chunk. Then anyone with high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes all of which are not that uncommon. Then after that all the less common underlying conditions like the genetic stuff and people dealing with cancer and other long term conditions. Paul Reid from the HSE reckons it adds up to about one third of the population. So a lot more than 5%

Even if it was 5%, that's a not insignificant number of 250,000 people in a population of 5 million.

Penfailed · 21-09-2020 07:42PM

Restrictions to increase again in the north from tomorrow evening.

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 07:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Even if it was 5%, that's a not insignificant number of 250,000 people in a population of 5 million.

If we see 5,000 in this country by the time this is all over I'll be surprised.

Penfailed · 21-09-2020 07:51PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

If we see 5,000 in this country by the time this is all over I'll be surprised.

5,000 what? Deaths or badly affected. It was you that used the figure of 5%.

21-09-2020 07:51PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ok, so this didn’t happen and the video is fake??

https://www.irishpost.com/news/watch-anger-dozens-attend-hours-long-street-party-dublin-estate-183928

The Lord Mayor was lying?
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-dublin-streetparty-video-warning-18155376

Irish Times making up stories and faking photos?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/large-gatherings-reported-throughout-state-on-bank-holiday-1.4268095

Irish times again lying and doctoring pictures??
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/beshoff-bros-closing-shops-after-footage-emerges-of-long-queues-1.4209821

Indo lying this time?
https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/crowds-and-irresponsible-behaviour-raise-coronavirus-concerns-at-popular-parks-and-walks-39057491.html

You are full of sh1t.

Two stories from the very start of lockdown before a stop was put to all that by closing beeches and other amenities etc.

And then some isolated incidents.

The vast vast majority of people complied I could see that with my own two eyes you are just stirring sh1t and I don’t even really know what you are trying to claim but one thing is undeniable - the lockdown was a massive success and the vast majority of people fully complied. Plenty got fined for breaches too or maybe you forget that too.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No-one has denied CV-19 exists, or that it's dangerous to some people.... Just nowhere near as many as is being made out. About 5% as I said above.

But let's say the Government took your advice and locked everything down completely. CV-19 spread gets to zero.. great! Now what?? Do we stay locked down until every other country we trade with, travel to or have visitors from gets to zero too? How do you propose to pay for the economic cost of that?

I'm serious.. have you any actual supporting ideas for the "lockdown everything" stuff?

Lock down hard and get it to zero here and then we can open up but keep ports and airports closed to all but the most essential travel (and very strict quarantine and testing for anyone that does travel).

The county could operate to a high degree of normality without any travel into or out of the country.

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 07:57PM

Penfailed wrote: »

5,000 what? Deaths or badly affected. It was you that used the figure of 5%.

Deaths.. We're over 6 months into this and still less than 2000 - which is great considering the predictions at the start!

The reality is that this virus is nowhere near as deadly as was feared and given we know now more about who actually IS at risk and the vast majority that aren't, a combination of personal responsibility and common sense will hopefully see us through without seeing that feared surge in deaths.

But I still fail to see why people like yourself are so against this position. Some here almost WANT it to be worse it seems.

FintanMcluskey · 21-09-2020 08:07PM

0 deaths again.

When they make the film about Covid they are going to struggle to keep it interesting

bucketybuck · 21-09-2020 08:11PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

0 deaths again.

When the make the film about Covid they are going to struggle to keep it interesting

They can just do what the government are doing now, focus on the case numbers, quietly ignore the death numbers.

hynesie08 · 21-09-2020 08:17PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Two stories from the very start of lockdown before a stop was put to all that by closing beeches and other amenities etc.

And then some isolated incidents.

The vast vast majority of people complied I could see that with my own two eyes you are just stirring sh1t and I don’t even really know what you are trying to claim but one thing is undeniable - the lockdown was a massive success and the vast majority of people fully complied. Plenty got fined for breaches too or maybe you forget that too.

Lock down hard and get it to zero here and then we can open up but keep ports and airports closed to all but the most essential travel (and very strict quarantine and testing for anyone that does travel).

The county could operate to a high degree of normality without any travel into or out of the country.

And who's going to pay for the 200000+ people who would be out of work in your dystopia? Will they be used as firewood for the rich?

walus · 21-09-2020 08:18PM

walus wrote: »

Well, according to German research and evidence based studies death rate for covid is 0.37% conservative, more like 0.25% effective. The outbreak of influenza is 0.1 - 0.3% depending on a country, strength of a given virus mutation etc. Covid and flu spread based on the same principles and are very contagious. In the light of the above why can't I compare covid with influenza when it comes to locking down the country?

And, no I don't get my information on Facebook. I don't even have an account with them. I do R&D for living and have strong abilities in researching topics and critically examining evidence.

Quinn Steep Policeman could you please answer my question above? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion. After all we are talking about thousands of deaths too.

FintanMcluskey · 21-09-2020 08:20PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Two stories from the very start of lockdown before a stop was put to all that by closing beeches and other amenities etc.

And then some isolated incidents.

The vast vast majority of people complied I could see that with my own two eyes you are just stirring sh1t and I don’t even really know what you are trying to claim but one thing is undeniable - the lockdown was a massive success and the vast majority of people fully complied. Plenty got fined for breaches too or maybe you forget that too.

Lock down hard and get it to zero here and then we can open up but keep ports and airports closed to all but the most essential travel (and very strict quarantine and testing for anyone that does travel).

The county could operate to a high degree of normality without any travel into or out of the country.

What does this fantasy entail?

Im curious how do you stop the movement of all citizen's?

Because if you dont the lock down errection/plan fails

Penfailed · 21-09-2020 08:27PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But I still fail to see why people like yourself are so against this position. Some here almost WANT it to be worse it seems.

Sorry, what now? I'm supposed to be against what position?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings