Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 21-09-2020 03:25PM

end of the road wrote: »

...
covid is not flue.
there is no misinforming anything from our news outlets, if there was it would be stamped down upon quite quickly.

Can you honestly say that media coverage of covid story is independent of government actions and objective as journalism should be?
That facts and opinions on both sides of the argument get the same attention?

Edit: An outbreak of influenza on average can cause an upwards of 1 months of excess deaths. That is aroud 2.5-3k deaths. Don't you think those people are not worth saving by locking the country down for them?

21-09-2020 03:31PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. The same curtain twitchers were whinging about neighbours having friends over, public places were jam packed. People were having street parties. Beaches were jam packed. Nature spots were jam packed. Crowds were queueing for Beshoffs in Bray after being out for the day. BBQs were happening all over the place.

Forget Covid, if I were you I’d be going for an Alzheimer’s test if you’ve forgotten all of that already.

All rubbish, most of the locations you mention were closed in the lockdown. Perks were closed, nature spots were closed, beeches were closed.

There was talk of an very occasional house party but they were rare and there was certainly no street parties or no households mixing very much if at all. Kids were even totally stopped going out to play (and rightly so) at the height of the lockdown.

People were not leaving their 2km in general, they weren’t mixing and they were just staying at home as we were told (and legally obliged to do).

You are living in some fantasy land imagining the majority of people were not highly respected the lockdown and hence we massive suppressed the virus.

21-09-2020 03:34PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What they are essentially saying is companies made more profits in 2019 than expected. That has nothing to do with the current year. 2020 corporation tax receipts will be reported in April - September 2021. (and those will, as sure as night follows day, will be "affected by the unprecedented challenges brought by the covid-19 pandemic" Paschal's quote :rolleyes: )

Income tax is for the current year and just slightly behind 2019 figures and well ahead of predicted figures in april.

21-09-2020 03:38PM

walus wrote: »

Can you honestly say that media coverage of covid story is independent of government actions and objective as journalism should be?
That facts and opinions on both sides of the argument get the same attention?

Edit: An outbreak of influenza on average can cause an upwards of 1 months of excess deaths. That is aroud 2.5-3k deaths. Don't you think those people are not worth saving by locking the country down for them?

Are we really back to comparing covid to flu? Are you that fat english yob drinking cans in Spain "its just a flu have a beer"?

Stop getting your news from facebook hoax links.

bucketybuck · 21-09-2020 03:42PM

People need to remember, if it didn't happen to Nox then it didn't happen at all.

The boy in the bubble for a new generation.

ShyMets · 21-09-2020 03:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

it would likely have been even worse with no lock down and a virus running rampent meaning large scale isolation.

it is us who comprehend the wider impacts, hence we recognise that the approach countries are taking in terms of lock down and restrictions are necessary, as without managing this virus we cannot deal with any other impacts of it.

and without managing the virus we probably won't have an economy.
hence the balanced approach.

covid is not flue.
there is no misinforming anything from our news outlets, if there was it would be stamped down upon quite quickly.

I'm not disputing that we need a balanced approach. I agree entirely with it. I was responding to a poster who is suggesting that we lockdown hard for months. The point I was making is that this will potentially cripple the economy. And impairing our ability to fight Coivd

end of the road · 21-09-2020 03:55PM

walus wrote: »

Can you honestly say that media coverage of covid story is independent of government actions and objective as journalism should be?
That facts and opinions on both sides of the argument get the same attention?

Edit: An outbreak of influenza on average can cause an upwards of 1 months of excess deaths. That is aroud 2.5-3k deaths. Don't you think those people are not worth saving by locking the country down for them?

i can yes .
there are already measures in place and a vaccine to protect against flue where possible so flue is again, not a valid comparison.

facehugger99 · 21-09-2020 04:00PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Income tax is for the current year and just slightly behind 2019 figures and well ahead of predicted figures in april.

The economy is being kept afloat on borrowed money.

We've over €10bn in the red so far this year and that figure is rising every day.

It's is completely and utterly unsustainable.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-09-2020 04:01PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Income tax is for the current year and just slightly behind 2019 figures and well ahead of predicted figures in april.

What was predicted in April was a load of nonsense.

Paschal also predicted a PEAK of unemployment for Ireland of 22% due to the pandemic. The same month he made the prediction, 28% unemployment was recorded, then 26% in May, 23% June, 17% July and 15.4% August.

So predictions by incompetent government, just like "deaths and destruction" were always way off.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-09-2020 04:05PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The economy is being kept afloat on borrowed money.

We've over €10bn in the red so far this year and that figure is rising every day.

It's is completely and utterly unsustainable.

having nothing to show that for 10bn expenditure btw. Poor Ronan cant even say "we've added x number of ICU beds over last 6 months", all he can say, as always, is that he is very concerned.

HildaOgdenx · 21-09-2020 04:07PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

After just over 6 months of unemployment I managed to secure another job this morning.
I feel extremely grateful and lucky to be employed again but I’m so anxious for the future, I’m not out of the woods yet.
If we were to go back into lockdown I have no idea if my role is secure or if they’ll just let me go.
They told me at the interview they were badly hit financially by the lockdown, even though the business was considered an essential service and remained in operation throughout.

Very easy for people who kept their jobs, kept their wage, had the distraction of work to fill their day and who enjoyed the lockdown to be pontificating about how we badly need to go back to being locked in our houses indefinitely.

The reality is very different for a lot of people. I genuinely don’t think I would be able to cope mentally, emotionally or financially if I lost a second job to restrictions/coronavirus this year.

Best of luck, well done, and I hope everything works out well in the new job.

walus · 21-09-2020 04:17PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Are we really back to comparing covid to flu? Are you that fat english yob drinking cans in Spain "its just a flu have a beer"?

Stop getting your news from facebook hoax links.

Well, according to German research and evidence based studies death rate for covid is 0.37% conservative, more like 0.25% effective. The outbreak of influenza is 0.1 - 0.3% depending on a country, strength of a given virus mutation etc. Covid and flu spread based on the same principles and are very contagious. In the light of the above why can't I compare covid with influenza when it comes to locking down the country?

And, no I don't get my information on Facebook. I don't even have an account with them. I do R&D for living and have strong abilities in researching topics and critically examining evidence.

walus · 21-09-2020 04:20PM

end of the road wrote: »

i can yes .
there are already measures in place and a vaccine to protect against flue where possible so flue is again, not a valid comparison.

Does the vaccine work for newly mutated virus, a new strain too? Looking at influenza outbreaks that occur every few years I would not have thought so. Then again I'm not an expert in vaccines.

FintanMcluskey · 21-09-2020 04:22PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

People need to remember, if it didn't happen to Nox then it didn't happen at all.

The boy in the bubble for a new generation.

I had the a similar experience issue with a few posters who didnt win the IQ lottery.

I made a statement which said there is GPs in Ireland not seeing patients, only offering phone consultations etc

Because some posters could see their local GP I was unable to explain thats not the case for everyone.

Baffling stuff

road_high · 21-09-2020 04:29PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Income tax is for the current year and just slightly behind 2019 figures and well ahead of predicted figures in april.

But expenditure is off the charts and only going up.

walus · 21-09-2020 04:30PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I had the a similar experience issue with a few posters who didnt win the IQ lottery.

I made a statement which said there is GPs in Ireland not seeing patients, only offering phone consultations etc

Because some posters could see their local GP I was unable to explain thats not the case for everyone.

Baffling stuff

True, some of us have a tendency to generalize based on a sample size =1. Some turn an anecdote into evidence with a speed of firing synapses.

yawhat? · 21-09-2020 04:38PM

walus wrote: »

True, some of us have a tendency to generalize based on a sample size =1. Some turn an anecdote into evidence with a speed of firing synapses.

Some people make up anecdotes and then generalise based on made up anecdotes. I know of a man with two wives!

JRant · 21-09-2020 04:40PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Income tax is for the current year and just slightly behind 2019 figures and well ahead of predicted figures in april.

You do realise that those estimates for 2020 were revised down in April. That they are slightly above that estimate in no means we are doing well.

21-09-2020 04:46PM

walus wrote: »

I don't even have an account with them. I do R&D for living and have strong abilities in researching topics and critically examining evidence.

As do I

21-09-2020 04:51PM

JRant wrote: »

You do realise that those estimates for 2020 were revised down in April. That they are slightly above that estimate in no means we are doing well.

Slightly behind 2019 figures and miles ahead of the revised estimates.

JRant · 21-09-2020 05:05PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Slightly behind 2019 figures and miles ahead of the revised estimates.

How's the expenditure side looking?

3xh · 21-09-2020 05:33PM

Well well. 6 months of ‘erroneously’ giving the wrong info.

What a load of cock.....

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/21/cdc-says-it-erroneously-posted-guidance-that-said-coronavirus-spreads-through-air-and-and-travel-beyond-six-feet.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

Ginger n Lemon · 21-09-2020 05:44PM

On a separate note, I've heard yesterday from a health care worker that a person who broke her leg was admitted to their hospital for treatment, but had to do a covid test that came back positive (she had no idea as had no symptoms). She has been counted as a hospitalised covid case - can someone please confirm where description of primary purpose of hospitalisations occurring is reported?

I have a bad feeling prof Nolan & our friend Ronan misrepresent the reason for hospitalisations... just wondering if reason for hospitalisations in Ireland is available on HSE website?

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 05:56PM

It is very concerning hearing people texting into Newstallk today calling for stuff like "tough action" and curfews. Looks like the goal of creating maximum hysteria over the weekend house parties has been achieved. :rolleyes:

All this for a virus that doesn't significantly (or at all) affect 95% of the population...

Penfailed · 21-09-2020 06:04PM

normanoffside wrote: »

There's a different world only up the road....first time I've ever thought it would be nice to live in Northern ireland

https://twitter.com/thomasniblock/status/1307756262331944966

Big outcry about that on the media today and it's now under police investigation.

end of the road · 21-09-2020 06:08PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The economy is being kept afloat on borrowed money.

We've over €10bn in the red so far this year and that figure is rising every day.

It's is completely and utterly unsustainable.

the borrowing is only a tiny part in keeping it afloat, the main contributers to the economy are still responsible for keeping our economy afloat through this.
we were always going to have to engage in borrowing some bit to minimize the effects that were always coming due to covid no matter what approach we took.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What was predicted in April was a load of nonsense.

Paschal also predicted a PEAK of unemployment for Ireland of 22% due to the pandemic. The same month he made the prediction, 28% unemployment was recorded, then 26% in May, 23% June, 17% July and 15.4% August.

So predictions by incompetent government, just like "deaths and destruction" were always way off.

predictions by government are still more valid then some randomer on the internet who doesn't understand any sort of facts or data.
so he got his original prediction wrong, always a possibility given where covid issues are concerned things can change ridiculously quick.

end of the road · 21-09-2020 06:13PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is very concerning hearing people texting into Newstallk today calling for stuff like "tough action" and curfews. Looks like the goal of creating maximum hysteria over the weekend house parties has been achieved. :rolleyes:

All this for a virus that doesn't significantly (or at all) affect 95% of the population...

mean while back here in the real world, there is no hysteria apart from in the minds of the alternative facts brigade who cannot accept they are out of step with reality.
a few people texting into a radio station means absolutely nothing, wouldn't surprise me if many of them were texting in just to wind the anti-everything brigade up.

_Kaiser_ · 21-09-2020 06:19PM

end of the road wrote: »

mean while back here in the real world, there is no hysteria apart from in the minds of the alternative facts brigade who cannot accept they are out of step with reality.
a few people texting into a radio station means absolutely nothing, wouldn't surprise me if many of them were texting in just to wind the anti-everything brigade up.

I don't know why I'm even bothering responding to you to be honest, but this nonsense needs to be called out.

Watch the news or stick on the radio. The fear out there is real and the damage its doing to people's mental health is very real. And it's unjustified and only exacerbating the situation.

All your childish digs (and it's a common thing among the "lockdown" advocates) doesn't change that - just exposes your argument for the paper-thin waffle it is.

3xh · 21-09-2020 06:19PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It is very concerning hearing people texting into Newstallk today calling for stuff like "tough action" and curfews. Looks like the goal of creating maximum hysteria over the weekend house parties has been achieved. :rolleyes:

All this for a virus that doesn't significantly (or at all) affect 95% of the population...

They’re just ‘rent-a-crowd’ being used as soft propaganda to, as you say, back up the hysteria over recent cases being due to house parties of young people.

A senior member of NPHET has direct familial access to all the media support in the country NPHET could need to get its message out. You can be sure NPHET and the media are both helping each other.

21-09-2020 06:20PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I wonder would some of the pro lockdown posters happily put themselves in the same precarious position they would happily resign others to.
I doubt they would be so flippant if it was their livelihoods at stake.
They seem very willing to sacrifice other people’s futures, but I don’t think they’d feel the same if they were six months into unemployment with no end in sight.

The €350 weekly payment is being reduced to €300 tomorrow.
Anyone already struggling is now going to be under even more financial pressure.
And yet people are still calling for entire industries to be shut down indefinitely again. All sense of perspective and empathy seems to have been lost by some here. If only they could bring themselves to give the same level of consideration to those whose lives have been indirectly ruined by coronavirus.
It’s not just those who have been afflicted with the virus that are suffering right now.

Well done Susie, hope the new job goes really well.
I am at the opposite end of things. I worked throughout Covid - on a contract, in a Government department. I was let go last week along with all my colleagues who were on contract (despite what many people think, not all Public sector workers have job security!). Week 1 of unemployment and I am now on €300 a week and anxious about this Winter, especially if its cold and bills are high.

On a separate note, I did lockdown alone as both my daughters lived abroad, Vancouver and Canada. I found it very tough and very lonely although I was thankful to have the distraction of work.

My daughter from Canada returned home to live in July along with her husband, toddler of 15 months, plus she is now 7 months pregnant again. They all tested positive for Covid last week and are isolating in Limerick along with her mother in law who got it. She is 60 and quite unfit and overweight but she is not very sick at all, is working from home and coping fine with Covid. My daughter and toddler have mild symptoms.
NOBODY needed a doctor or hospitalisation thankfully and seem no worse than if they had a very bad cold.

I think this time round people are not getting as sick thankfully and I think the Government's reaction is hugely skewed in favour of public health over everything else. There is more to public health than just Covid 19. There are cancer and other illnesses that are being missed, there are long term chronic illnesses going untreated, no screenings, no clinics, issues of mental health etc.
We have a spike in cases now but very few hospital admissions and very few deaths (thankfully) In my opinion there is a serious imbalance in the way we are dealing with Covid in Ireland.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings