General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Lampard and Chelsea should be nowhere near having any title pressure put on them this season. It should be a CL spot and developing a clear style of play, while settling in the new big money signings. A domestic cup would be a bonus.

It was the same with Klopp when he arrived (albeit from a lower start point). The kind of level that's been shown the last few years from City and Liverpool is absurdly high. You can't just rock up and get 100 odd points from nowhere. Even in Mourinho's first season, he inherited a team that came 2nd and got just shy of 80 points.

I'm far from convinced Lampard will have the wherewithall to acheive that, but he certainly shouldn't receive too much criticism for failing to meet absurd targets.

As for today, his game plan seemed sound enough. The red changed the game, but the situation was all about the knife-edge Chelsea were on. They were very disciplined in holding their line up until then but one slip-up and Mané was in, whether it was for a red, or if he had just rounded Kepa and scored a goal. Either way, it wasn't going to be easy for Chelsea to come back from that.

But if they tried to slug it out with Liverpool, they would've just been dismantled, so I still think the defensive approach was the right move.

They may well give Liverpool a better game in Anfield. I think this was a good time to play them.

with the money that Chelsea have spent the Russian will expect a title tilt. I would. They were fantastic last year and have improved significantly via the transfer market.
I like Frank but the media driven narrative that there's low expectations just isn't true.

Can’t judge Chelsea off that performance, it was essentially the same team that finished last season with Werner and Havertz. One of which has been in England about 2 weeks.

3rd with a decent showing in CL would be a good season for Chelsea. They’ve spent big, but mostly on players not used to the league or young.

Their aim this season should be to find a settled formation/team/style and bed in the new players to have a run at a title next season.

They really need to sort out their midfield. Kante is the best defensive midfielder in the world yet Lampard has him playing further up the field where he is nowhere near as effective. I’m not sure what Jorginho offers either. They need to find a role for Havertz quickly too. He’s played 2 positions in 2 games. I know he’s flexible but it’ll help if he has a defined role.

They have a hell of a lot of players that are around the same standard too I’m midfield/attack (Barkley, RLC, CHO, Mount). Lampard has a job on his hands keeping them all happy.

Positives signs on Werner though who I thought looked dangerous yesterday and will be a success.

A front 6 of the following will score plenty of goals once they settle.

Kante Kovacic
Ziyech Havertz Pulisic
Werner

DVDM93 wrote: »

Thiago breaking Premier League records on his debut.

All of us in here are very lucky as Premier League fans to have a player of his calibre gracing us with his presence.

Strap yourselves in & enjoy the show folks, it's only getting started.

https://twitter.com/OptaJoe/status/1307732548232114176?s=20

Just don't let him tackle!

For Lampard/Chelsea, I think it's a little bit in between the two arguments above. He shouldn't be expected to finish ahead of Liverpool and City, or even within 5 points of them (i.e. a proper league challenge is a bit unrealistic). As has been mentioned we're talking about possibly the two greatest sides in the history of the Premier League, never before has it been so hard to win the league. You're having to target 100 points which is absurd. We need to remind ourselves of the freakish consistency of Liverpool the last 2 seasons and City in 17/18 and 18/19. It's highly possible one of them gets close to 100 points again.

That said, with the money spent, finishing in the CL places would be a bare minimum and it should be done with a degree of ease this time, rather than the sweat it was last time.

A fair target for Frank this year in the league should be to go past 80 points, finish 3rd and close the gap to the league leaders to 10-15 points - a platform to mount a more realistic challenge next season.

However it's a very valid point made that Chelsea managers have been sacked after performing to what others would think is an acceptable level, so it's fair to speculate on whether the above would be enough. I think the above is the realistic view of what should be expected, but whether Abromovich feels the same after outlaying so much is definitely up for speculation

Fitz* wrote: »

There was massive pressure on Klopp to challenge for the title, minimum, when Liverpool spent big in the summer of 2018. Liverpool were already a CL side then, like Chelsea are now. Both finished 4th the previous season. Liverpool finished that 2018/2019 season with 97 points with the title race going to the last day and won the Champions League. That was a 22 point jump. A 22 point jump for Chelsea will be 88 point this season.

Why is Lampard getting an easier ride?

Because 88 pts isn't sufficient to challenge for a title?

pjohnson wrote: »

Because 88 pts isn't sufficient to challenge for a title?

Is that a question or what are you trying to say?

My point was that Klopp was put under massive pressure to challenge for the title at a minimum when Liverpool spent big a few summers ago. Lampard is not getting the same treatment now. Why is that?

88 points could be sufficient for a title. It might not be, but it also could be. After 2 games played, nobody can say with conviction that it definitely won't be enough. Especially in a season that is going to be cramped into a shorter time frame.

Lads it's because Frank is English and a Premier League golden boy. That's why he get's a much easier time.

That's all their is to it, nothing else.

Gbear wrote: »

Lampard and Chelsea should be nowhere near having any title pressure put on them this season.

Lampard and Chelsea should be nowhere near each other as manager of the club. It's exactly the reason why i don't ever want Gerrard managing Liverpool, the absolute assumption that it should happen is ridiculous.

Frank Lampard is being given a free hit by the media because he's English and to a lesser extent the Chelsea fans because he's a legend there.

His post match interview yesterday was atrocious. Throwing Kepa utterly under the bus without a hint of shame. You're the one picking him, Frank.

The comments on the red card was just dumb, but i'm assuming he was pretending to think like that.

Ultimately though, the money they've spent and the players they have brought in should hold no excuses for Lampard. Why is he getting leeway just because he's completely unproven compared to an experienced manager with a proven track record?

You can't just expect and accept mediocrity because the manager is a playing legend when you know that by appointing a proper manager, it would give you a better chance of success.

I just saw we're no longer top of the table. Well that was a fun 24 hours whilst it lasted. Never to be seen again

monkey9 wrote: »

Lampard and Chelsea should be nowhere near each other as manager of the club. It's exactly the reason why i don't ever want Gerrard managing Liverpool, the absolute assumption that it should happen is ridiculous.

Frank Lampard is being given a free hit by the media because he's English and to a lesser extent the Chelsea fans because he's a legend there.

His post match interview yesterday was atrocious. Throwing Kepa utterly under the bus without a hint of shame. You're the one picking him, Frank.

The comments on the red card was just dumb, but i'm assuming he was pretending to think like that.

Ultimately though, the money they've spent and the players they have brought in should hold no excuses for Lampard. Why is he getting leeway just because he's completely unproven compared to an experienced manager with a proven track record?

You can't just expect and accept mediocrity because the manager is a playing legend when you know that by appointing a proper manager, it would give you a better chance of success.

There seems to be an assumption that players can get better, but managers can't.

Unless they're total gob****es, it should've been implicit in the hiring of Lampard that he would get more time than someone proven brought in from outside the club. They deliberately made that choice when they brought him in.

There are positives and negatives to both - there's been a carousel of managers at Chelsea for the past 20-odd years. They've appointed 11 managers in that time (Hiddink and Mourinho twice). The promise of a Lampard is that he brings a sense of stability and can instill a longer-term ethos beyond just dump trucks of cash and trophies (although they'll of course be part of it) before buggering off after 2 years.

If Chelsea show forward momentum, that's enough. He'll be held to a different standard because his goals are different this season to City's or Liverpool's. And that goes for Utd as well, although I think they lack the deliberation and strategy that Chelsea have shown, and the Solskjaer project is more likely to fail.

Roman isn't as invested in the Chelsea project anymore, I don't think he will be pulling the trigger on Frank too soon.

Deleted User wrote: »

It seem like such an utterly useless stat, the most passes by someone in 45 minutes, you'd just have to know who else has played in that position for 45 minutes against 10 men for it to be any way revealing.

What you really need is the stat versus any other player in a 45min period. The overall point was that he came in after a single training session with a new team and passed more than anyone else, yes against 10 men but shows how quickly he adapted to the team that they kept passing to him.

Some other stats about Thiago:

• He has more long passes than any other outfield player so far this season
  
• He has more touches of the ball this season than Aubameyang, Son or Hendrick
  
• He has more total passes this season than Kante, Henderson or Pogba

Sample size is tiny, and circumstances against Chelsea were in his favour. Let's see how his stats far for the rest of the season and we'll see if these ones were 'utterly useless' or if they served as an early indication of his passing ability.

Time will tell