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Covid-19 likely to be man made

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    #152
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    I'll wait to hear from Yin.


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    #153
    Dampsquid
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Dampsquid


    Quote "she believed it was made in a lab"

    Is that the proof we were all looking for?


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    #154
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    i#ve been saying this since march. the idea it came from a middle ages style animal/food market was beyond fanciful.


    the magic market that was just down the road from the level 4 lab that holds all this type of stuff . If you believe the wet-market story you'd believe anything


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    #155
    tunguska
    Registered Users Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭tunguska


    This is eerily similar to Stephen King's The Stand.


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    #156
    splashuum
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭splashuum


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i#ve been saying this since march. the idea it came from a middle ages style animal/food market was beyond fanciful.


    the magic market that was just down the road from the level 4 lab that holds all this type of stuff . If you believe the wet-market story you'd believe anything

    Ditto. Previous posts suggesting same were sent to the "conspiracy" forum.
    Laughable really :pac:


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    #157
    DangerScouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 466 ✭✭DangerScouse


    Wow. In fairness this is pretty explosive stuff.

    I expect our free and unbiased media to ask the Chinese authorities the hard relevant questions and look for answers immediately given the effects this has had on our society, economy and health services here in the west, right?

    Oh what's that look over there orange man bad.....


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    #158
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Thread title is misleading, the report doesn't show how the virus was man made.

    It postulates how the virus could be made in a lab and details the steps that would be taken to do so.

    It's interesting, but not a smoking gun.


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    #159
    DangerScouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 466 ✭✭DangerScouse


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Thread title is misleading, the report doesn't show how the virus was man made.

    It postulates how the virus could be made in a lab and details the steps that would be taken to do so.

    It's interesting, but not a smoking gun.

    It's more than interesting. It shows the CCP have being telling porkies from the very start about the origins of the virus. If they lied about that what else did they lie about?


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    #160
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    But... 5G


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    #161
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    DangerScouse wrote: »
    It's more than interesting. It shows the CCP have being telling porkies from the very start about the origins of the virus. If they lied about that what else did they lie about?

    I can't comment on that, the paper is far too technical for me to properly understand it and I'd hazard a guess that the OP doesnt either judging by the misleading headline. Or maybe he does understand it and the thread title is intentionally misleading.


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    #162
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I'll wait to read the paper she and her colleagues publish.

    There is a preponderance of opinion it's not manmade and if one considers the fact that the DNA sequence of Covid-19 is available since January and has been reviewed fairly thoroughly by multiple labs, uni's and researchers.
    If it was a manmade virus, and if it could be lain at the feet of the CCP's Wuhan lab, it would be being shouted from the rooftops by every western government and researcher.

    She will need to present fairly compelling evidence to overturn that consensus.
    I watched her loose women interview and I just felt a little aghast that what is possibly the biggest story of the century, is being broken to many (not me, I've been aware of this for a while) but to the generally scientifically uninterested public.
    On a daytime gossip show, something just doesn't add up.

    There have been claims that Covid is lab originated since late Jan/Feb.
    Good overviews from Forbes and a scientific paper here, strongly refute the lab origin theory.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/05/10/a-timeline-of-the-covid-19-wuhan-lab-origin-theory/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    If Dr Yan has evidence to refute that?
    It will be apocalyptic, the release of biological weapons on the world to this extent however it occured would not likely pass without retribution.

    I am reading the Scribd linked paper now in the OP now, will update with an opinion when I've read more than just the abstract.


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    #163
    peterofthebr
    Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭peterofthebr


    i believe her twitter account was taken offline .. and also rumours that CPP is complating throwing a head to the world for covid ... by planning that Xi Jinping steps aside ..


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    #164
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The paper linked in the OP presents theoretical possibility of lab origin.
    The claims are prefaces by "should" indeed the paper's title
    "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route" itself isn't congruent with the specific claims Dr Yan has made to the media.

    There's no evidence presented, it's theoretical exercise in how it could have been created, but contrary to the tone of much of the news reporting and indeed Dr Yan's claims to the media there is no smoking gun in the paper.

    Now let me qualify that by saying my own background is statistical and regulatory.
    I'm not a PhD nor am I currently involved in scientific work, actually am back to Uni again as a law student.
    So my final opinion on the paper would be this.
    It's a scientific paper, that goes to great lengths to actually preface it's hypothesis as possible, probable, could and should...

    Where's the definitive article, the certainty?


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    #165
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    paw patrol wrote: »
    i#ve been saying this since march. the idea it came from a middle ages style animal/food market was beyond fanciful.


    the magic market that was just down the road from the level 4 lab that holds all this type of stuff . If you believe the wet-market story you'd believe anything

    From reading your posts over the past few months, you literally believe anything


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    #166
    DuffleBag
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭DuffleBag


    Of all the sources you could use, you chose The Sun, and Loose Women talkshow...


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    #167
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Get Real


    The article says it could in theory be developed in a lab, and therefore (she believes) was created in a lab.

    She has no evidence that it was or wasn't though.

    Meanwhile, she boosts her own profile, and gets passage to the USA..

    I'm not saying she's entirely wrong. But she's spouting a theory. She has no evidence either way that it was produced in a lab.


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    #168
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Whether this is true or not is unclear right now , shocking if it is.
    But What I find totally unbelieveable are the statistics from China , the country where the virus originated, the largest country in the world , has the same number of cases as say Holland . Never mind ther military style lockdown , the virus would have run rampant throughout China in early days before ther lockdown as they would have been unaware of its existence , this did not happen except in Wuhan alone, and it has run rampant everywhere else in the world, not just in one city, that I find totally suspicious.


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    #169
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    This doc is out a while and makes a strong case for what the doc is saying



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    #170
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    So the source is the worst possible british tabloid possible and a tabloid tv programme that probably takes its cue from the sun.

    She has been welcomed into Trump's America, by Trump officials



    Christ some people are phenomenally gullible and will actually believe this


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    #171
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    banie01 wrote: »
    I'll wait to read the paper she and her colleagues publish.

    There is a preponderance of opinion it's not manmade and if one considers the fact that the DNA sequence of Covid-19 is available since January and has been reviewed fairly thoroughly by multiple labs, uni's and researchers.
    If it was a manmade virus, and if it could be lain at the feet of the CCP's Wuhan lab, it would be being shouted from the rooftops by every western government and researcher.

    She will need to present fairly compelling evidence to overturn that consensus.
    I watched her loose women interview and I just felt a little aghast that what is possibly the biggest story of the century, is being broken to many (not me, I've been aware of this for a while) but to the generally scientifically uninterested public.
    On a daytime gossip show, something just doesn't add up.

    There have been claims that Covid is lab originated since late Jan/Feb.
    Good overviews from Forbes and a scientific paper here, strongly refute the lab origin theory.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/05/10/a-timeline-of-the-covid-19-wuhan-lab-origin-theory/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    If Dr Yan has evidence to refute that?
    It will be apocalyptic, the release of biological weapons on the world to this extent however it occured would not likely pass without retribution.

    I am reading the Scribd linked paper now in the OP now, will update with an opinion when I've read more than just the abstract.
    The Anderson et al paper has a lot of flaws for something to be published in such a prestigious journal, and even engages in whataboutery when claiming the spike protein would be designed better if it were synthetic. This makes no sense for a bunch of reasons. They didn't bother discussing the possibility of chimeric insertion of this, rather than a de-novo sequence. The angle taken implies that it would be "created to infect" and not for any other reason. The protein, as is obviously apparent to all of humanity, is quite well able to bind to human receptors (in fact, it's the best) along with a bunch of other mammals.

    It's also been previously asserted in previous controversial gain of function research with influenza that intentionally enhancing infectivity can actually backfire on its long term fitness, so the argument made in the paper is kinda spurious. They also ignore any discussion of chimeric research and unfortunate chimeric recombinants, for increased pathogenicity created e.g. for research purposes by some postdoc. The EcoHealth Alliance funded a controversial Nature paper in 2015 where a US lab and the WIV did exactly just that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/#!po=78.0303

    Edit: minor typo.


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    #172
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DuffleBag wrote: »
    Of all the sources you could use, you chose The Sun, and Loose Women talkshow...

    She went on Tucker Carlsson also and everyone knows he is fair and balanced


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    #173
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    lucernarian wrote: »
    The Anderson et al paper has a lot of flaws for something to be published in such a prestigious journal, and even engages in whataboutery when claiming the spike protein would be designed better if it were synthetic. This makes no sense for a bunch of reasons. They didn't bother discussing the possibility of chimeric insertion of this, rather than a de-novo sequence. The angle taken implies that it would be "created to infect" and not for any other reason. The protein, as is obviously apparent to all of humanity, is quite well able to bind to human receptors (in fact, it's the best) along with a bunch of other mammals.

    It's also been previously asserted in previous controversial gain of function research with influenza that intentionally enhancing infectivity can actually backfire on its long term fitness, so the argument made in the paper is kinda spurious. They also ignore any discussion of chimeric research and unfortunate chimeric recombinants, for increased pathogenicity created e.g. for research purposes by some postdoc. The EcoHealth Alliance funded a controversial Nature paper in 2015 where a US lab and the WIV did exactly just that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/#!po=78.0303

    Edit: minor typo.

    Thanks for that, I don't have the technical knowledge to compare and contrast the benefit of a De-novo creation of the protein spike versus a chimearic insertion.

    My issue with the Dr Yan's paper isn't from a position of strong technical knowledge on my part, rather its quality and in what it goes to great pains to avoid making a definitive claim on.
    I do believe that the way she is being presented in the media as a smoking is quite at odds with her paper assertion of a possibility rather than a certainty.


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    #174
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    tunguska wrote: »
    This is eerily similar to Stephen King's The Stand.
    So a lot of old crap?!


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    #175
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    banie01 wrote: »
    Thanks for that, I don't have the technical knowledge to compare and contrast the benefit of a De-novo creation of the protein spike versus a chimearic insertion.

    My issue with the Dr Yan's paper isn't from a position of strong technical knowledge on my part, rather its quality and in what it goes to great pains to avoid making a definitive claim on.
    I do believe that the way she is being presented in the media as a smoking is quite at odds with her paper assertion of a possibility rather than a certainty.
    This is what happens with a whole lot of papers and research, they rapidly become fact. It's less about the science than the media's inability to report it properly.


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    #176
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,057 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I don't begin to understand the science in the paper. However I can read the rest of it and it seems to me that Dr Yan is doing exactly what scientists are supposed to do, she is putting out ideas and showing how they could work. She does not appear to have claimed that this is a definitive answer, just that there is something to be discussed - by scientists who understand what she is talking about. It must be very frustrating to put forward a theory and have all the illiterati jump on the bits they understand and arrange them to suit their narrative.


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    #177
    mikep
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭mikep


    I expect she will be feted by the Trump administration the show the world that the "China Virus" was all a big plan by the Chinese to take over the world...
    And only trump will save us all...


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    #178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    So a lot of old crap?!

    Not being a molecular biologist, I cant comment on the science in the paper, however the associated language in the paper, and the commentary elsewhere is a bit like - "technically it is possible this happened, therefore it did"


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    #179
    dzsfah2xoynme9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭dzsfah2xoynme9


    The Sun? Tucker Carlson?

    Might as well have it written on the back door of a men's jacks cubicle..


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    #180
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From reading your posts over the past few months, you literally believe anything


    Bravo! :pac:


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    #181
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not being a molecular biologist, I cant comment on the science in the paper, however the associated language in the paper, and the commentary elsewhere is a bit like - "technically it is possible this happened, therefore it did"
    Indeed, we've been here a good few times on this particular theme. The billions of mutations in bats seem a far better target for therefore it did moment.


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