Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

MadYaker · 12-09-2020 11:04AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

Just in response, I had first hand experience of a public hospital in May, Broke a leg, I was shipped to a private hospital (actually I had to make my own way to Dublin from Laois), the public hospital were excellent patching me up, ambulance from my house etc but my god, I was one of 3 patients in one of the Midlands largest hospitals, it felt like the set of an eary horror film, lights dimmed, echo's in the DISTANCE,, all that was missing was tumbleweed.

Now I get wards used only for COVID patients, I get hospital restrictions but what they did was completely over the top, I'm talking may here and follow up treatment continued back at this hospital up till July and still hospital at best 50% functioning. I guess my worry is that they are still nowhere near being ready for anything, let alone a possible covid surge and all the while waiting lists spiralling out of control.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time the measures taken were understandable. Most of those measures were rolled back by July but people were reluctant to present themselves at hospitals or their GPs for various reasons. The health system isn’t and will never be ready for a surge of cases but thankfully that seems unlikely at the moment.

FintanMcluskey · 12-09-2020 11:06AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701

Finally an experienced irish doctor reiterates the fact the flu is worse than Covid and people have lost their minds.

Lets hope its not to late

“The financial cost can be seen in any walk or drive through cities, towns and villages. Mortgage repayments and other financial setbacks are virtually all suffered by the young worker or business person and not by the over-65, who are guaranteed their pension, as indeed are the salaries of the individuals who decide to inflict these draconian measures,”

We have chosen the lives of wealthy over our own children.

“From a medical perspective I am not seeing an impact from Covid on the ground. What I am seeing is delayed diagnoses for other conditions – breast cancer, skin cancer in young people, an onslaught of anxiety and depression, an increase in loneliness in the elderly, recently a fractured humerus in an elderly lady that has been like that for months as she was afraid to go outside.”

We have chosen who dies. Heartbreaking stuff.

No doubt the same posters will be back to laugh at those who have been saying for month's Covid is similar to the flu.

polesheep · 12-09-2020 11:41AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time the measures taken were understandable. Most of those measures were rolled back by July but people were reluctant to present themselves at hospitals or their GPs for various reasons. The health system isn’t and will never be ready for a surge of cases but thankfully that seems unlikely at the moment.

This oft quoted statement really grinds my gears. I tried to visit my GP twice and twice was refused with the offer of a phone consultation only. My wife works in a specialist hospital unit and for months they were not taking patients, and all while the CMO was telling people to go to their doctors or the hospitals. It's still easier to get into Fort Knox than into a GP's surgery. Many GPs have behaved disgracefully during all of this.

mr zulu · 12-09-2020 12:35PM

polesheep wrote: »

This oft quoted statement really grinds my gears. I tried to visit my GP twice and twice was refused with the offer of a phone consultation only. My wife works in a specialist hospital unit and for months they were not taking patients, and all while the CMO was telling people to go to their doctors or the hospitals. It's still easier to get into Fort Knox than into a GP's surgery. Many GPs have behaved disgracefully during all of this.

Yes your right, my friend who has very high blood pressure tried to ring doctor and eventually they told him to come in, a nurse put a monitor on him, he took it back 2 weeks ago and can't get his results, because they are not answering the phone, those doctors should be reported for negligence.

theballz · 12-09-2020 12:39PM

Dempo1 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/number-waiting-on-outpatient-appointment-highest-since-records-began-1016681.html

Just as it happens, this morning, the figures for people on waiting lists, it's just appalling, hope the Department of Health's new external PR team can shed some light on this mess., what percentage of Irelands population is 611,000, wait, don't tell me, I'm depressed enough as it is.

No wonder you are depressed - if you look for problems you will find them.

Maybe look at this issue and backlog as result of this horrendous pandemic. DoE didn’t create this virus, no one on the planet was prepared for some thing like this. The backlog is horrendous for sure, however, we are where we are and we need to band together to get through this.

Not sit depressed complaining about it.

Multipass · 12-09-2020 12:49PM

polesheep wrote: »

This oft quoted statement really grinds my gears. I tried to visit my GP twice and twice was refused with the offer of a phone consultation only. My wife works in a specialist hospital unit and for months they were not taking patients, and all while the CMO was telling people to go to their doctors or the hospitals. It's still easier to get into Fort Knox than into a GP's surgery. Many GPs have behaved disgracefully during all of this.

It annoys the hell out of me too - I’m still trying to get a postponed consultants appointment from March, which is still not being offered in person, online only. At no point was I ‘reluctant’ to attend anywhere.

MadYaker · 12-09-2020 01:42PM

polesheep wrote: »

This oft quoted statement really grinds my gears. I tried to visit my GP twice and twice was refused with the offer of a phone consultation only. My wife works in a specialist hospital unit and for months they were not taking patients, and all while the CMO was telling people to go to their doctors or the hospitals. It's still easier to get into Fort Knox than into a GP's surgery. Many GPs have behaved disgracefully during all of this.

Why were doctors and the health ministers at the time drawing attention to the problem so?

https://www.irishpost.com/news/chief-medical-officer-worried-empty-beds-waiting-rooms-irish-hospitals-182852

PTH2009 · 12-09-2020 02:10PM

not confident of the GAA championships going ahead as planned

The other leagues can go ahead but the GAA won't give in without having supporters in the grounds

FintanMcluskey · 12-09-2020 02:12PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Why were doctors and the health ministers at the time drawing attention to the problem so?

https://www.irishpost.com/news/chief-medical-officer-worried-empty-beds-waiting-rooms-irish-hospitals-182852

The hospitals were empty because they moved all the elderly patients from hospitals to nursing homes, while having positive tests.

Elderly patients take up most hospital beds

Elderly patients were vulnerable to Covid

I'm not sure will the inquest find them guilty of manslaughter.

Lets wait and see

New Era · 12-09-2020 02:39PM

At a time when mixed messaging, which has been a bone of contention from opposition parties and something that the govt have only started to acknowledge that they got their messaging all wrong, during the last few months and lead to confusion and dismay from the general public, this issue has reignited itself again after the comments of Dr Feeley on the Irish Times this morning.

The hse may well distance themselves from that commentary. But the facts are that he is still a doctor and on the hse payroll. This is going a big story I feel and the last thing that public health authorities and the government need, as they try to persuade the Irish public to take the covid 19 virus seriously and take appropriate measures to reduce the spread of the virus, that would reduce the chances of further restrictions or lockdown in the future.

Love to be a fly in the wall and know the present thoughts of Hse, Minister Donnelly, the dept of health and the government in general. They must be livid!

polesheep · 12-09-2020 02:45PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Why were doctors and the health ministers at the time drawing attention to the problem so?

https://www.irishpost.com/news/chief-medical-officer-worried-empty-beds-waiting-rooms-irish-hospitals-182852

A quote from that piece: "At a press conference yesterday evening, Thursday 2 April, Dr Holohan urged people to attend hospital if they were feeling unwell, as "the hospitals are there for all ailments".

You do not attend hospital if you are feeling unwell, you attend your GP. I have no doubt that when he made that comment Dr Holohan knew full well that GPs were not seeing patients. What's more, hospitals were triaging patients at the front door and only allowing those who were severly ill, as distinct from 'unwell' to proceed to A&E. It was disingenuous on the part of Holohan and the government and I posted so at the time.

hmmm · 12-09-2020 02:46PM

Oxford vaccine trial is back on following a safety review, great news.

Restrictions have lowered the total volume of infected people, and is allowing time for vaccines and treatments to catch up with the disease. We're already seeing the death rate falling as new treatments (e.g. steroids, vit. D, perhaps plasma) are being implemented worldwide. Some other promising treatments are in trials at the moment, and we'll know whether or not they work shortly. Also monoclonal antibody treatments should be available shortly.

If we can continue to keep the virus suppressed we'll make it to a vaccine and herd immunity sometime next year, so saving thousands of lives and who knows how much suffering from long-term damage to people from this disease.

PTH2009 · 12-09-2020 02:54PM

https://www.gaa.ie/news/ard-chomhairle-meeting/

Great news and will boost morale for fans

Penfailed · 12-09-2020 03:02PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I'm not sure will the inquest find them guilty of manslaughter.

Lets wait and see

You don't have to wait and see. There might not be an inquest...and if there is, no one will be found guilty of manslaughter. To even suggest as much is a bit hysterical, no?

FintanMcluskey · 12-09-2020 03:02PM

hmmm wrote: »

Restrictions have lowered the total volume of infected people, and is allowing time for vaccines and treatments to catch up with the disease.

The confidence in that statement is staggering, almost as if its measured effective data.

Bottom line is, its just as accurate to say the vulnerable died early and stronger people are catching the cold.

Why are so many so enamoured by the restrictions?

Do the restrictions trigger oxytocin in some folk?

FintanMcluskey · 12-09-2020 03:05PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You don't have to wait and see. There might not be an inquest...and if there is, no one will be found guilty of manslaughter. To even suggest as much is a bit hysterical, no?

Im fearful, not hysterical just yet, that we will face those restrictions every flu season unless people are held accountable.

Before you respond with outrage, Dr Martin Feely a senior HSE consultant agrees that its less deadly than a flu.

An inquest will shed some light on this farce.

hmmm · 12-09-2020 03:08PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The confidence in that statement is staggering, almost as if its measured effective data.

Bottom line is, its just as accurate to say the vulnerable died early and stronger people are catching the cold.

It's very simple Fintan. The longer we suppress the virus, the more time we have to develop better treatments which we have now - with more to come. We know that the treatments we have now are effective because they've been tested in trials where some groups received the treatments and some did not.

There are a couple of interesting treatment trials due to finish shortly, and we should also have first results from large-scale vaccine trials over the next few months.

New Era · 12-09-2020 03:09PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/news/ard-chomhairle-meeting/

Great news and will boost morale for fans

If this news and as welcome as it is doesn't change the habits of people, who have let down their guard recently and not doing the basic social and cough etiquette and washing their hands and haven't reduced their social contacts, as what Dr Glynn and the health authorities are demanding, then I don't know what will.

It's brilliant news and hopefully we can limit the numbers of confirmed covid cases, so that come October 17th we will see the recommencement of inter county gaa action again and I for one can't wait.

stephenjmcd · 12-09-2020 03:12PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

not confident of the GAA championships going ahead as planned

The other leagues can go ahead but the GAA won't give in without having supporters in the grounds

Looks like they'll get fans in.

In Irish times
"At Level 2 status, sports grounds would allow no more than 50 supporters, according to NPHET advice to the Cabinet. However, Ministers at the Cabinet sub-committee on Thursday expressed strong disagreement at those low numbers and the plan is expected to increase the numbers allowed under each level significantly, to several hundred under Level 2.

The Government is also considering allowing larger attendance, up to 5,000 at large stadia, but numbers have not been finalised."

Penfailed · 12-09-2020 03:12PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im fearful, not hysterical just yet, that we will face those restrictions every flu season unless people are held accountable.

Before you respond with outrage, Dr Martin Feely a senior HSE consultant agrees that its less deadly than a flu.

An inquest will shed some light on this farce.

No outrage here.

PTH2009 · 12-09-2020 03:30PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like they'll get fans in.

In Irish times
"At Level 2 status, sports grounds would allow no more than 50 supporters, according to NPHET advice to the Cabinet. However, Ministers at the Cabinet sub-committee on Thursday expressed strong disagreement at those low numbers and the plan is expected to increase the numbers allowed under each level significantly, to several hundred under Level 2.

The Government is also considering allowing larger attendance, up to 5,000 at large stadia, but numbers have not been finalised."

Tickets for prov finals and AI series will be like gold, AI Finals tickets will be the rarest gold of all

Looks like ill Pub for Waterford games

Nermal · 12-09-2020 03:47PM

hmmm wrote: »

If we can continue to keep the virus suppressed we'll make it to a vaccine and herd immunity sometime next year, so saving thousands of lives.

If I developed a drug that saved thousands of people, mainly the very old and sick, at a cost of €30bn and counting, the HSE wouldn’t pay for it.

12-09-2020 03:55PM

Thousands of young lives are getting destroyed every day while we continue this bizarre fight to try and prevent old and very unhealthy people from dying.

I happen to know 2 people in their 50s that currently have Covid. I was laughing with them over the phone last night. They both have a few sniffles and slight loss of taste.

Plumbthedepths · 12-09-2020 03:56PM

It seems a few posters here are public sector workers / pensioners whose income is guaranteed and are ok with restrictions till an effective vaccine arrives.

hmmm · 12-09-2020 04:03PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It seems a few posters here are public sector workers / pensioners whose income is guaranteed and are ok with restrictions till an effective vaccine arrives.

Or perhaps there's people who don't think letting a virus like Covid run rampant is going to get the economy re-opened.

Thread is quiet today thankfully - lots of the posters I suspect are currently in Dublin city centre.

Plumbthedepths · 12-09-2020 04:07PM

hmmm wrote: »

Or perhaps there's people who don't think letting a virus like Covid run rampant is going to get the economy re-opened.

Thread is quiet today thankfully - lots of the posters I suspect are currently in Dublin city centre.

I'm sitting at home I don't work weekends and find it quite telling that you took the time to respond to my comment.

12-09-2020 04:12PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It seems a few posters here are public sector workers / pensioners whose income is guaranteed and are ok with restrictions till an effective vaccine arrives.

Yep definitely.

Unfortunately for me and many others like me, I am going to be made redundant next month with a heavily pregnant wife. Covid listed as 1 of the reasons for the redundancy. (IT sector)

And I don’t even qualify for PUP payment since redundancy will take place after mid September and government can no longer afford to pay it.

I have a mortgage and bills to be paid.

But we are in this together... Right??? I should just focus on suppressing the virus for a few months and everything will be grand...

Meanwhile I have friends in the public sector earning a full time wage for part time hours. They love lockdown..

hmmm · 12-09-2020 04:18PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm sitting at home I don't work weekends and find it quite telling that you took the time to respond to my comment.

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean.

Thankfully we have most of our economy still in operation, albeit at lower levels. Certainly better than it would have been if we had large numbers of sick people and others terrified to go to work or visit shops and restaurants. Government will have to borrow to keep supporting businesses and those who become unemployed, but thankfully the ECB are ensuring that we can borrow large sums at low interest rates right now.

Plumbthedepths · 12-09-2020 04:21PM

hmmm wrote: »

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean.

Thankfully we have most of our economy still in operation, albeit at lower levels. Certainly better than it would have been if we had large numbers of sick people and others terrified to go to work or visit shops and restaurants. Government will have to borrow to keep supporting businesses and those who become unemployed, but thankfully the ECB are ensuring that we can borrow large sums at low interest rates right now.

I get the impression form your posts you are far more involved/ knowledgeable with the situation than other posters here are but your income is guaranteed to a degree and are happy for restrictions to be imposed to protect you personally.
Just my opinion based on observation.

hmmm · 12-09-2020 04:42PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I get the impression form your posts you are far more involved/ knowledgeable with the situation than other posters here are but your income is guaranteed to a degree and are happy for restrictions to be imposed to protect you personally.
Just my opinion based on observation.

With respect PTD this is a discussion forum, you might prefer Facebook if you want some safe place where you aren't going to be challenged. Perhaps part of the reason you think me and some other posters so "knowledgeable" is because some of what we have to say is correct and you know it?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings