Jury Duty

blue note · 04-09-2020 03:41PM

I was called once but not used. I'd do it if I was put on a jury, but I certainly wouldn't enjoy it. A criminal record or jail time are serious and you're the one deciding on it. As is someone commiting a crime and not being punished.

I know a couple of people who were on awful ones and neither wanted to talk about them after. One guy on a gruesome murder trial and another on a case where the guy had allegedly raped his mother. He claimed it was consensual. That one broke down, but she listened to almost a week of it I believe.

And my wife was on one before I knew her. A guy was stopped and found to have a machete in his boot. But there was essentially no evidence against him. She found that some of the other jury members wanted to convict because he looked like trouble and was probably up to no good. They were right, it turned out he had heaps of previous convictions, but you can't convict someone because they look like a scumbag. I can't remember what he was being charged with, but there was no evidence for that.

I really wouldn't like to be on a jury arguing with people that we have to decide based on evidence as opposed to what someone looked like.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 04-09-2020 05:38PM

I'd fear not getting my point across well in deliberations. In the written word, I think I can be persuasive but I'm really not great at speaking up in groups and I sometimes struggle to gather my thoughts and express them in an articulate yet expedient way. I'm easily drowned out by more forceful voices. Does everyone get a chance to give their thoughts in jury deliberations?

Lewis_Benson · 04-09-2020 05:45PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

"Weasel out" is accurate when you see the number of posters saying "get out of it" and having no reason other than not wanting to do it.

So what if I Dont want to do it, I should not be forced to.
Like I stated earlier, I'd be far too prejudice in the role, if the defender looked like a scobe and spoke with an inner city Dublin accent and looked like he was off his face, I'd be voting for him to get the chair before proceedings even start.

touts · 04-09-2020 05:46PM

Was only called for Duty once. Didn't get pulled out of the lottery to serve on an actual panel but my main memory of it was a couple sitting together in the jury room and then in the courtroom near me. A case gets called and some details announced. The woman turned to the man and said something along the lines of "This is Jimmy. This is the one we need to be on". I discreetly found a guard and told him what I heard. He went over to some officials and one went up to the judge. Before jury selection started there was a brief adjournment and we were all sent back to the waiting room. The couple got called out of the room and we never saw them again. Didn't ask what was going on.

bobbyy gee · 04-09-2020 05:50PM

A jury trial is fun. But might put a fianchial strain. The evedince is not really well set out if they bring in papers. A lot of woman will vote to convict even if person is innocent. As they think person will commit another crine

Gregor Samsa · 04-09-2020 06:02PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I'd fear not getting my point across well in deliberations. In the written word, I think I can be persuasive but I'm really not great at speaking up in groups and I sometimes struggle to gather my thoughts and express them in an articulate yet expedient way. I'm easily drowned out by more forceful voices. Does everyone get a chance to give their thoughts in jury deliberations?

There’s no one in the jury room except the jury, and there’s no set format to how the deliberations go. The foreperson is merely the spokesperson representing the jury in the court. They’re not necessarily in charge of the jury or how things go. It’s supposed to be 12 equals coming to a consensus.

Of course, there’s loads of different personalities, and different ones react and contribute in different ways. My (limited) experience was that the quieter people were encouraged to speak up and given space to do so. It was a very mixed set of backgrounds on my jury, but it was surprisingly diplomatic.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:03PM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Many had legitimate reasons for excusal

Yes and some have been mentioned here but “weasel out” was about those / it was about the people posting about “getting out of it”, looking scruffy so to not be picked, etc

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:04PM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Youre being selective.What about the others who had legitimate reasons?

He is being selective becasue the people with legitimate reasons are not weasels

04-09-2020 07:13PM

I was called years ago, was only 19 or 20 or so. I was a student at the time so could have had a get-out but I was curious to see how the procedure worked. Travelled up and down to Cork city three or four times and my name never got drawn on any occasion, so it was essentially a bunch of wasted journeys.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:14PM

blue note wrote: »

I was called once but not used. I'd do it if I was put on a jury, but I certainly wouldn't enjoy it. A criminal record or jail time are serious and you're the one deciding on it. As is someone commiting a crime and not being punished.

I know a couple of people who were on awful ones and neither wanted to talk about them after. One guy on a gruesome murder trial and another on a case where the guy had allegedly raped his mother. He claimed it was consensual. That one broke down, but she listened to almost a week of it I believe.

And my wife was on one before I knew her. A guy was stopped and found to have a machete in his boot. But there was essentially no evidence against him. She found that some of the other jury members wanted to convict because he looked like trouble and was probably up to no good. They were right, it turned out he had heaps of previous convictions, but you can't convict someone because they look like a scumbag. I can't remember what he was being charged with, but there was no evidence for that.

I really wouldn't like to be on a jury arguing with people that we have to decide based on evidence as opposed to what someone looked like.

I would like the experience just to know what it is really like. I joke that I’d convict someone in shiny tracksuit or not guilty for an attractive woman but really I would be nervous to be on a case where the person might be innocent but also might be guilty.

And I don’t know how I would be in a room with 11 others - some like me and others who may have made up there mind.

I couldn’t handle a sexual assault case - couldn’t bear to see or hear the evidence.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:19PM

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I'd fear not getting my point across well in deliberations. In the written word, I think I can be persuasive but I'm really not great at speaking up in groups and I sometimes struggle to gather my thoughts and express them in an articulate yet expedient way. I'm easily drowned out by more forceful voices. Does everyone get a chance to give their thoughts in jury deliberations?

I’d either be too quiet or I’d fight with the loud mouth in the group

I would imagine every one gets a chance to speak but I don’t think there is a set way of doing things.

All I know comes from12 Angry Men

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:25PM

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

So what if I Dont want to do it, I should not be forced to.
Like I stated earlier, I'd be far too prejudice in the role, if the defender looked like a scobe and spoke with an inner city Dublin accent and looked like he was off his face, I'd be voting for him to get the chair before proceedings even start.

Where did I or anyone else say you should be forced to?

Why are you whinging at me? If called you don’t want to do and would weasel your way out of it.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 07:27PM

touts wrote: »

Was only called for Duty once. Didn't get pulled out of the lottery to serve on an actual panel but my main memory of it was a couple sitting together in the jury room and then in the courtroom near me. A case gets called and some details announced. The woman turned to the man and said something along the lines of "This is Jimmy. This is the one we need to be on". I discreetly found a guard and told him what I heard. He went over to some officials and one went up to the judge. Before jury selection started there was a brief adjournment and we were all sent back to the waiting room. The couple got called out of the room and we never saw them again. Didn't ask what was going on.

Fair play. That is actually pretty good story. John Grisham could spin that into a good yarn.

HildaOgdenx · 04-09-2020 07:29PM

I've never been called. I'd certainly do it, if called.

I think it must be quite difficult , especially in some cases, I imagine some of what has to be seen and heard by the jury could be quite harrowing.

Nexytus · 04-09-2020 07:30PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

He is being selective becasue the people with legitimate reasons are not weasels

Civic Responsibility - it's relativistic. Like there might be some other guy who thinks that you are a weasel because you don't go around your community picking up litter on a Saturday. Or you don't volunteer to teach poor, illiterate people to read. Or report your girlfriend's traffic violations to the police.
By the same token the jury-Dodger might seem a stiff, goody two shoes to the neighbourhood drug dealer or loan shark.

anplaya27 · 04-09-2020 07:38PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I got the fifth call last week.

That was after an excusal in 2018 with medical evidence due to my deafness. Served before the deafness though, but was not called. that was in 2006 and I am not a member of the Defence Forces for the record.

Did everything I could to inform them now but nothing in response at all. So my OH who has form said to just turn up on the day and say your piece to the Court Clerk and leave.

I would not be able to hear proceedings at all. And that would not be fair to anyone.

Deaf ISL users are now allowed to sit on jury panels with interpreters now ( previously were forbidden).

SweetCaliber · 04-09-2020 08:16PM

I've been called for it for the end of the month.

I'd actually like to be picked to sit, would like to know how the system works and get a perspective of it.

Allinall · 04-09-2020 08:42PM

Nexytus wrote: »

Civic Responsibility - it's relativistic. Like there might be some other guy who thinks that you are a weasel because you don't go around your community picking up litter on a Saturday. Or you don't volunteer to teach poor, illiterate people to read. Or report your girlfriend's traffic violations to the police.
By the same token the jury-Dodger might seem a stiff, goody two shoes to the neighbourhood drug dealer or loan shark.

It’s more than a civic duty.
It’s a legal obligation.

You can’t be convicted in court for not picking up litter.

Nexytus · 04-09-2020 09:48PM

Allinall wrote: »

It’s more than a civic duty.
It’s a legal obligation.

You can’t be convicted in court for not picking up litter.

When you're excused then it is not a legal offence.
The people 'weaseling' were endeavoring to and successfully getting excused.
They were being called out here for lacking civic spirit. Not for doing anything illegal.
So your point makes no sense.

Spanish Eyes · 04-09-2020 09:53PM

anplaya27 wrote: »

Deaf ISL users are now allowed to sit on jury panels with interpreters now ( previously were forbidden).

I am not an ISL user. So am goosed.

Still no reply from the Courts Service to my pleading email. Will have to just turn up on the day and explain my predicament. It is stressful.

I did serve on a jury for two weeks back in the day, but really cannot do it anymore for the sake of the accused and the proceedings and the jury room stuff.

Did my bit. But am a bit concerned that if I am fined I might have a conviction. That is not what I want at all.

touts · 04-09-2020 09:55PM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Fair play. That is actually pretty good story. John Grisham could spin that into a good yarn.

Grisham's characters are usually fairly clever. These two were a bit dopey. I don't think they were there to get a mate off in some sort of conspiracy. I think they were just from a rough area and knew one of the lads on trial and were stupid enough to talk about it with people around.

cj maxx · 04-09-2020 10:15PM

I was called for a rape trial but after showing up twice we were told the trial wasn’t going ahead.
Maybe he changed his plea idk.
Anyway I won’t get called again seemingly

Yyhhuuu · 04-09-2020 10:30PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am not an ISL user. So am goosed.

Still no reply from the Courts Service to my pleading email. Will have to just turn up on the day and explain my predicament. It is stressful.

I did serve on a jury for two weeks back in the day, but really cannot do it anymore for the sake of the accused and the proceedings and the jury room stuff.

Did my bit. But am a bit concerned that if I am fined I might have a conviction. That is not what I want at all.

Phone them

Yyhhuuu · 04-09-2020 10:34PM

Why aren't self employed jurors paid by the courts service for their time and work on Juries. Seems only fair.

Samsgirl · 04-09-2020 10:35PM

Was called 2 years ago but not selected to serve. Would have loved to though. Found it fascinating.

Am expemt now so can't be called again. Work for Dept of Justice.

Yyhhuuu · 04-09-2020 11:07PM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/serving-on-an-irish-jury-it-s-very-daunting-1.4196798%3fmode=amp

Spanish Eyes · 04-09-2020 11:09PM

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

Phone them

I cannot hear well on the phone. Anyway there is absolutely no phone contact allowed AFAIS. It is all email.

They did reply to my email, and said they would be in contact within 14 days which is up this Wednesday coming.

If I don't hear anything I will go to the CCJ on the day with my previous documents and speak politely to the court clerk. Hoping for the best, but really do not need this right now.

8mv · 04-09-2020 11:35PM

Selected for jury three times - first time sent to the jury room to sort ourselves out and when we came back the case was dismissed after a legal argument. Second time we heard evidence in the morning and after lunch the defendant changed their plea to 'guilty' so we were dismissed. Third time lucky - got to reach a decision. Thankfully it was a minor case of property damage - no one hurt or killed. Facinating process and I'd serve again no problem. My experience has been that the judge and court officials are very aware that jury members are unfamilair with procedures and may be anxious about what is expected of them so they do their best to re-assure and help the jury.

Yyhhuuu · 05-09-2020 02:26AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I cannot hear well on the phone. Anyway there is absolutely no phone contact allowed AFAIS. It is all email.

They did reply to my email, and said they would be in contact within 14 days which is up this Wednesday coming.

If I don't hear anything I will go to the CCJ on the day with my previous documents and speak politely to the court clerk. Hoping for the best, but really do not need this right now.

You did your best. That's all you can do. The ball is in their court now. Dont worry you wont be prosecuted. Good to send an e mail. You should send a reminder e mail
They may immediately reply to this. This has been my experience after receiving the initial acknowledgement from them. I think the Jury Summons are centralised in Ennis, Co.Clare.

BeerWolf · 05-09-2020 05:13AM

Was on Jury Duty earlier this year, took 4 days... of some drunk old man smashing a bottle over some tourist's head. Found him Guilty.

Exciting stuff...!

Jury Duty

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