Blatant Cheating

I thought that technically you can take an unplayable lie wherever you want? and then get a 2 shot pen now is it?

I could be completely off there because I don't think the occasion has ever come up for me.

I'm into my 4th decade now playing the game!

Anyway, one thing that has always been in my bag is the rules book. Would be fairly well up on the straightforward stuff, but there wouldn't be a big fat book without a myriad of rules.
Its great to pull it out of the bag when needed.

My most recent use of it was to double check relief from the bunker on where I was to take my drop (and I chipped in from the drop )

callaway92 wrote: »

I thought that technically you can take an unplayable lie wherever you want? and then get a 2 shot pen now is it?

I could be completely off there because I don't think the occasion has ever come up for me.

Yea, you can take an unplayable anywhere except a penalty area. Two Club lengths or back on the line or from the original spot.

dan_ep82 wrote: »

1 shot penalty for unplayable no?

yea 1 shot, unless your unplayable is in a bunker and you go back on line of sight out of the bunker. then its 2 shots.

Berty44 wrote: »

And just to prove how complicated the rules are if the ball is in water in a bunker you can drop out but the penalty is only one shot ( you can drop within the bunker for no penalty ).

Is that a different rule though, and not the unplayable rule?

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

A bit off topic as its not a story of blatant cheating but more of a clarification of the rules. I was playing golf in a open last week with 2 other non-members. One of the lads was a young enough lad and was fairly new to golf so naturally had a few questions throughout the round and I helped to the best of my knowledge.

Anyway we get to the 14th tee, par 4 and about 100 yards from the tee box there is a single line of trees that run perpendicular to the fairway on both sides. The young lad tees up and clips one of the tress to the right of the fairway and the ball drops behind the row of trees. As we head off and we are approaching where the young lads ball came down, we notice that there is a shallow dry dyke that runs behind the line of trees but there is no steaks or anything to indicate that it is a hazard. The dyke was full of loose leaves and rocks but we located the ball anyway, the young fella ask me what his options are and I tell him he is entitled to declare an unplayable but its up to him. This is where the other guy chimes in as he was in no way allowing him to declare it as an unplayable, he claimed the ball was there to be hit. I would not be a rules expert so we took the advice of the other fella as I wasn't 100% sure. Anyway young attempts his shot and as I expected we hear a loud crack off a snapped club, he definitely hurt he hand too but he did not say anything but he was in clear discomfort as he finished his round.

I came away a bit disappointed in myself that I didn't know what the exact rules were around the situation but if it was me there would be no way I would have hit out of there for fear of injury.

100% could have declared an unplayable lie.

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

That's what I thought and I was fairly sure I was right but I just didn't know 100% and the other lad was very certain he was correct. Would it have been a 2 shot penalty if he did drop back? I though 1?

ya a couple of lads after me said that's correct, but it's just 1 stroke..Which actually, I should take advantage of it more. 'Two Club lengths or back on the line or from the original spot.'

Not sure if it'd be considered unsportmanlike to use it sometimes though.

wardides wrote: »

Just 1 stroke penalty. So instead of hitting his 2nd from where he was, he would be hitting his 3rd from the drop ball. I think he would have had 3 options, but all out of declaring unplayable. Could either hit again from tee (or where original shot came from), go 2 club lengths no closer the hole either side, or as far back as he wants, keeping line the same through where the ball was and where it's dropped (doing this he needs to pick a spot and still do 1 club length drop from that spot i think as well).

Makes sense, thanks for the clarity on that...

bamayang wrote: »

What’s the difference between the two options? Why keep it to two clubs lengths, if you can go back as far as he wants for same penalty?

You can go back as far as you want but you must keep the point of unplayable lie directly between where you drop and the flag. That is not always possible or desirable so 2 club lengths gives you a sideways option.

Looking at the scores from the Mullingar scratch cup, some excellent scoring but a name stands out to me as it does in most championships and big scratch cups. No where near making the cut, never is but constantly getting into these events with a cut off lower than +1.

Played behind him a few times, 1 occasion in a strokes event, conversation with playing partners turned to him and everyone was familiar with him, then on 17 he picked up the ball on the green so we all presumed NR and he was keeping things moving because play slowed up. Off 18 looking for his ball and obviously no sign so throws one down on the fairway and plays a shot in, again thinking NR.

Results issue that night, signed for a 70. I was unaware he had returned until one of my playing partners, who I didn't know until that day, contacted me and asked would I support him in an email he was going to send to the club. Email was sent and no reply, a call was made to the club who acknowledged it wasn't the first complaint but he is still out there playing away.

I feel something this blatant and obvious should also be picked up on by the GUI because they are constantly seeing these scores but his handicap remains low enough to play in the events.

Clear cheating and he is not the only one.

gman127 wrote: »

I have recently experienced a situation that I'm still pondering what to do and would appreciate some input for you good folks on here and this seems a good a thread as any!

Playing with Player A, making general conversation, he has some family also playing at the club so ask how all are doing, playing much etc.
As plain as day says that his brother is 'minding his handicap' so that he can defend a major title he won last year :mad:

Then during this round and a subsequent one with a friend of mine later in the week, Player A on a few occasions either misses silly putts or doesn't even bother to search for his ball that could be easily found etc after he makes the turn with over 20 points and in danger of a good score.
And then after one of the rounds submits a score of 30 points even though his partner marked him for 32, which could have kept him in the buffer.

So, long story short, how would you approach this sort of blatant handicap minding? Both lads off about 25 and capable of at least 18 if not better (Player A was off 10 a few years ago! )

I plan to bring the issue to the mens committee or captain or handicap secretary or something but would appreciate some advice first. Cheers

Had our Captains Prize round one this weekend and sure enough Player A from the post above is leading with a Nett 62!! :mad:

At the weekend had to tell a guy to take head cover off when measuring 2 club lengths. I'm sure the guy wasn't cheating. Just didn't know.

Wombatman wrote: »

At the weekend had to tell a guy to take head cover off when measuring 2 club lengths. I'm sure the guy wasn't cheating. Just didn't know.

I wouldn't bother saying anything about that. He's probably marking the point a couple of inches inside the headcover to adjust for the fact that he's measuring with it on.

That said, if he came up against a certain type of guy in matchplay he could be called on it, so he's probably better off being told in case.

What about lads spending more the the new 3mins looking for a ball have been stuck behind a few of them in recent weeks.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Jaysus. :eek:

I've mentioned it before. And I know it is unusual. But I'm not a fan of handicapped golf .

At the very least not a fan of overall prize .

Should be categorised. And you only compete in categories.

A lad off 25 competing against a lad off say 2 or 3 has never made sense to me.

I fundamentally disagree with you about low handicappers competing with higher. It does make sense and is one of the great things about the game that everyone can compete against each other.

I'd be in two minds about categorising it too much as well. If you had all the category 1 guys together, would you have less than 10% of golfers competing for a quarter of the comp? And on top of that, the difference between a guy playing off 5 and one off +2 is huge. Essentially, you'd have the same couple of people winning 90% of the category 1 prizes.

I think play the scratch competitions by category a couple of times a year, but otherwise handicaps are great. You'll often have a lowest gross prize too which is grand.

I don't have any problem with people playing off big handicaps. It's the guys who play off handicaps that are too high for them that are the problem, whether that's a guy off 20 who should be 15 or a guy off 8 who should be 4.

I know a club where there were 3 guys who played together every Sunday. One in particular was known for keeping a high handicap. He was playing in 3 comps a week, everyone felt to get the .1s back. It was so bad, another club where he was playing every week and getting .1 back every week complained to his home club about him, they felt he was gaming the system. He has actually left the club since, again many feel because of the resentment towards him.

But those 3 guys each won the Captains prize in a 5 year period. You can work out the odds of that all things being equal - they're extremely low. Another of the 3 was given an exceptional scoring reduction after it (I think they took 4 shots from him in total) and he appealed it getting it reduced to two. People in the club were very sour about the whole thing. Essentially they didn't regard them as real wins. There's nothing wrong with a 20 handicapper playing great by his standards and winning. But if he plays fine by his standards and wins that's a disgrace.

I wonder what the point is though. It's surely not about the crystal or whatever you win. And you surely can't enjoy it properly as a win if you haven't actually won it properly.