neighbour using our downpipe

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:01AM #1

Hi. I have an awkward situation and need some advice .
We have a lot of drainage at our back gutter draining our kitchen roof into a downpipe and drain which doesn't seem able to cope with the amount of water .
The downpuoe is cleaned and has no debris but water pours over onto our patio if there is a big down pour.
A comment from the guy who was landscaping ( he has cut back our neighbour's garden too) that we were draining a lot more than our own roof led me to have a good look at my neighbour's back guttering .
As far as I can see they have no downpipe and are draining their roof into our back drain!
This was not the original layout . All of the houses were originally built with a kitchen extension roof drained like ours via a down pipe into a drain at the back . Semi detached.
They had a conservatory built about 18 years ago and it appears they removed their drain and downpipe at this stage , and have been draining their roof into our drain since . I did notice a lot of drainage before and said it to them , asking if theirs was the same . The answer was no !
They never told us or asked our permission about this .
Should they have? Is it changed now so long they gave a right to use our drain ?
I am angry about it as we have always done everything according to the book, got planning permission, let them know what we were planning when we got our own extension and have ensured that any work we get done does not impinge on them in any way .
However they did get very anxious and shirty with us when the builder was changing our guttering at the extension side which is upstairs.
They are not very friendly and are older than us , but up to this we had been on pleasant terms .
Now we have an overflowing gutter on to a new patio and I don't know what I can do.
I am worried if we try to broach it with them it may make relations worse, but at the same time feel we have been taken advantage of .
I would like to know the rights and wrongs before we speak to them , or if we should just leave well enough alone ?

sydthebeat · 23-08-2020 12:03AM

A pic would be very helpful

antoinolachtnai · 23-08-2020 12:10AM

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

TheW1zard · 23-08-2020 12:17AM

When i was looking for a house we saw one we liked. We walked away from it though because the neighbour when buikding their extension had done something similar.
Would drive me mad and no way youd get permission to do so.
What to do in your case im not sure but defo taking the piss imo.

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:19AM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

We have just had all gutters and downpipes cleared as I thought that would sort it .
Splashes didn't bother us before as was on to an old paving with gravel .
Maybe shouldn't have got new paving ;/

Edit. Sorry only seeing about trap or gully . Do you mean on top somewhere , because everything is draining down the pipe and away the drain fine in normal weather / rainfall ?

Padre_Pio · 23-08-2020 12:21AM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:23AM

TheW1zard wrote: »

When i was looking for a house we saw one we liked. We walked away from it though because the neighbour when buikding their extension had done something similar.
Would drive me mad and no way youd get permission to do so.
What to do in your case im not sure but defo taking the piss imo.

They didn't have planning as it was only a conservatory , and a porch at the front .
Joke is they put in a new drain and downpipe in the porch , probably the same stuff they took off the back !

23-08-2020 12:23AM

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

They’ve had the pipes done and there are no blockages, and they’ve seen what the neighbours have done. I’d change no pipes.

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:27AM

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

It's not, it's a standard pipe and is now fitted into a new drain cover.
Even with ordinary rainfall I can hear it dripping long after the shower has gone and that is going on for years ,
That was what I asked them about a few years back .

mickdw · 23-08-2020 12:33AM

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

If its the gully that cant handle it, its possible that cleaning could help but id disagree that the downpupe itself could carry twice ita expected flow without issue.
Building Regulations clearly detail roof areas that may be drained into the various downpipe sizes.
They could surely have arranged a surface water
Connection when building extension but instead they decided to not worry about it and instead take the piss and threw all the water over on you.

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:34AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

A pic would be very helpful

Will try and put one up tomorrow.

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 12:37AM

mickdw wrote: »

If its the gully that cant handle it, its possible that cleaning could help but id disagree that the downpupe itself could carry twice ita expected flow without issue.
Building Regulations clearly detail roof areas that may be drained into the various downpipe sizes.
They could surely have arranged a surface water
Connection when building extension but instead they decided to not worry about it and instead take the piss and threw all the water over on you.

Yes afraid so.
Upset that in all the years of being a good neighbour that this was the case and only finding out now . Very upsetting .
Is it true that because it is like that now for 18 years we can not ask them to change it back ?

Gumbo · 23-08-2020 08:50AM

OP you need to post a pic.

Most rows of houses will share downpipes. Not every house gets their own pipe so the neighbor may have done nothing wrong.

elperello · 23-08-2020 02:32PM

Gumbo wrote: »

OP you need to post a pic.

Most rows of houses will share downpipes. Not every house gets their own pipe so the neighbor may have done nothing wrong.

A pic would help.

Where houses share a downpipe the maintenance of the pipe and fittings and the drain is a shared responsibility.

Reading the OP I'm not sure that this was a shared downpipe when the houses were constructed. It seems that the neighbour removed his own downpipe and diverted his roof water to the OP's property.

If this is the case the OP should in the first instance seek to resolve the matter amicably with the neighbour. Failing that take legal advice.

Pkiernan · 23-08-2020 02:35PM

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

Markcheese · 23-08-2020 03:39PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

I was thinking that ... But depending on the scenario , the water overflowing the gutter could well just splash down your wall ( and it's a shared wall anyway)
It could even be the builder or whoever rerouted your neighbours pipe just did it without telling them , and if it didn't cause them an issue ,your neighbours wouldn't worry ,

phormium · 23-08-2020 04:56PM

It's a wonder it all comes your direction if there were originally two gutters and downpipes as surely the fall on their side of the gutter should be towards the previous downpipe and you'd imagine it would just spill out their side rather than flow to yours unless of course the fall of the guttering was corrected and made go to your side.

My theory behind this is I have a long bungalow with guttering all along the back and one downpipe however somewhere when being built the guttering was sloped towards the downpipe alright but only from about halfway along the house, the other half of the gutter slopes to the other side where there is no downpipe and in the bad rain like last week the water pours out over that gutter outside my bedroom window like a waterfall! It's like the gutter is slightly propped up in the middle of it's 50ft length and water flows to both sides rather than just the one with the downpipe. I'll have to have it fixed as it's getting worse but unless your neighbours deliberately changed the fall of the gutter to get to your side I'm surprised it's not just pouring out over their edge as I presume it should have flowed that direction day one to their downpipe.

Seth Brundle · 23-08-2020 04:59PM

In fairness, it can't be that bad if it took you 18 years to realise the issue. It's presumably too late to complain to your neighbour

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:15PM

Markcheese wrote: »

I was thinking that ... But depending on the scenario , the water overflowing the gutter could well just splash down your wall ( and it's a shared wall anyway)
It could even be the builder or whoever rerouted your neighbours pipe just did it without telling them , and if it didn't cause them an issue ,your neighbours wouldn't worry ,

No they would have known because the drain would have been in their conservatory if they had left it .
So they took the cheapest and easiest option instead of rerouting the drain .
The houses are built with separate drainpipe and drains, I have checked with our other neighbours who are friends .

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:18PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In fairness, it can't be that bad if it took you 18 years to realise the issue. It's presumably too late to complain to your neighbour

I explained why it took that long .
It was draining into an old path with grass and gravel and overflow didn't bother us or we didn't notice it so much .
Notice it now be ause all the overflow is landing on new paving.
Only thing I noticed was the amount of water pouring from it and the noise , which I did ask about .

So is it too late to do anything about it ?

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:22PM

phormium wrote: »

It's a wonder it all comes your direction if there were originally two gutters and downpipes as surely the fall on their side of the gutter should be towards the previous downpipe and you'd imagine it would just spill out their side rather than flow to yours unless of course the fall of the guttering was corrected and made go to your side.

My theory behind this is I have a long bungalow with guttering all along the back and one downpipe however somewhere when being built the guttering was sloped towards the downpipe alright but only from about halfway along the house, the other half of the gutter slopes to the other side where there is no downpipe and in the bad rain like last week the water pours out over that gutter outside my bedroom window like a waterfall! It's like the gutter is slightly propped up in the middle of it's 50ft length and water flows to both sides rather than just the one with the downpipe. I'll have to have it fixed as it's getting worse but unless your neighbours deliberately changed the fall of the gutter to get to your side I'm surprised it's not just pouring out over their edge as I presume it should have flowed that direction day one to their downpipe.

They got their gutters changed when doing this so I would imagine they did change the fall as they don't seem to have any puddles on that side, from what I can see standing on a ladder in the rain!

elperello · 23-08-2020 11:25PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I explained why it took that long .
It was draining into an old path with grass and gravel and overflow didn't bother us .
Only thing I noticed was the amount of water pouring from it and the noise , which I did ask about .

So is it too late to do anything about it ?

Certainly not too late.

This is not a planning matter.

Don't interfere with the neighbours property.

You will have to talk to the neighbours. Be friendly but firm. Decide what you want to say and stick to that.

If you can't reach an agreement get legal advice.

TheW1zard · 23-08-2020 11:28PM

Can you redo the fall/so it falls from the middle away to both sides? Ie raise centre

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:31PM

elperello wrote: »

Certainly not too late.

This is not a planning matter.

Don't interfere with the neighbours property.

You will have to talk to the neighbours. Be friendly but firm. Decide what you want to say and stick to that.

If you can't reach an agreement get legal advice.

Thanks .
Will discuss with my husband and decide what to do .
We will have to address it sooner rather than later .
Worried that it may be an issue if we ever decide to sell as a poster said yesterday .

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:35PM

TheW1zard wrote: »

Can you redo the fall/so it falls from the middle away to both sides? Ie raise centre

Would have our roof draining into their non existent down pipe then !

Might force the issue but not sure about it .
An other remedy would be to separate our gutters entirely with dividers , as said by pkiernan .
That would force them to sort their own drain out but worried about grief , tbh .

Goldengirl · 23-08-2020 11:36PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

Can we do that ? I mean would we be allowed ?
Would we have to ask permission ?

elperello · 23-08-2020 11:45PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Can we do that ? I mean would we be allowed ?
Would we have to ask permission ?

You would be best advised not to do that.

The backed up water could damage their property making the situation between you even worse.

It might even damage your property.

BryanF · 23-08-2020 11:53PM

OP
This is a civil mater.
See if you can sort this amicably with your neighbour

Otherwise seek legal advice.

Btw, did it dawn on the patio installer to add a drain? Is it possible to install a drain line at this stage?

Del Boy · 24-08-2020 12:15AM

Simply mention to the neighbours that your drainage system has struggled with recent downpours. You had someone take a look .......and were advised that your downpipe is actually taking the load of both houses......Bla Bla Bla ......You must have made the mistake of not reinstalling a downpipe 18 years ago, an innocent error no doubt (NOT) ......Bla Bla Bla ......Can we agree on the end of September to put one in place before winter and storms etc.....Thanks and be friendly.

By end of Sept stick in a divider at boundary. They have a month to sort it. If they ignore you it's their problem.

Keep it friendly. Set a timeframe. If they don't sort it by that date then act yourself. And never mention it again.

Ginger83 · 24-08-2020 12:32AM

Del Boy wrote: »

Simply mention to the neighbours that your drainage system has struggled with recent downpours. You had someone take a look .......and were advised that your downpipe is actually taking the load of both houses......Bla Bla Bla ......You must have made the mistake of not reinstalling a downpipe 18 years ago, an innocent error no doubt (NOT) ......Bla Bla Bla ......Can we agree on the end of September to put one in place before winter and storms etc.....Thanks and be friendly.

By end of Sept stick in a divider at boundary. They have a month to sort it. If they ignore you it's their problem.

Keep it friendly. Set a timeframe. If they don't sort it by that date then act yourself. And never mention it again.

Make sure you put the divider just inside your boundary so it cannot be removed by your neighbour

maestroamado · 24-08-2020 12:41AM

It seems unlikely that rain water could cause this, sometimes if guttering not placed correctly the force of the water coming down the roof can be thrown over guttering. I suspect this be more the problem...

neighbour using our downpipe

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