neighbour using our downpipe

Goldengirl

Hi. I have an awkward situation and need some advice .
We have a lot of drainage at our back gutter draining our kitchen roof into a downpipe and drain which doesn't seem able to cope with the amount of water .
The downpuoe is cleaned and has no debris but water pours over onto our patio if there is a big down pour.
A comment from the guy who was landscaping ( he has cut back our neighbour's garden too) that we were draining a lot more than our own roof led me to have a good look at my neighbour's back guttering .
As far as I can see they have no downpipe and are draining their roof into our back drain!
This was not the original layout . All of the houses were originally built with a kitchen extension roof drained like ours via a down pipe into a drain at the back . Semi detached.
They had a conservatory built about 18 years ago and it appears they removed their drain and downpipe at this stage , and have been draining their roof into our drain since . I did notice a lot of drainage before and said it to them , asking if theirs was the same . The answer was no !
They never told us or asked our permission about this .
Should they have? Is it changed now so long they gave a right to use our drain ?
I am angry about it as we have always done everything according to the book, got planning permission, let them know what we were planning when we got our own extension and have ensured that any work we get done does not impinge on them in any way .
However they did get very anxious and shirty with us when the builder was changing our guttering at the extension side which is upstairs.
They are not very friendly and are older than us , but up to this we had been on pleasant terms .
Now we have an overflowing gutter on to a new patio and I don't know what I can do.
I am worried if we try to broach it with them it may make relations worse, but at the same time feel we have been taken advantage of .
I would like to know the rights and wrongs before we speak to them , or if we should just leave well enough alone ?

sydthebeat

A pic would be very helpful

antoinolachtnai

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

TheW1zard

When i was looking for a house we saw one we liked. We walked away from it though because the neighbour when buikding their extension had done something similar.
Would drive me mad and no way youd get permission to do so.
What to do in your case im not sure but defo taking the piss imo.

Goldengirl

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

We have just had all gutters and downpipes cleared as I thought that would sort it .
Splashes didn't bother us before as was on to an old paving with gravel .
Maybe shouldn't have got new paving ;/

Edit. Sorry only seeing about trap or gully . Do you mean on top somewhere , because everything is draining down the pipe and away the drain fine in normal weather / rainfall ?

Padre_Pio

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I would look at the engineering before you get into the rights and wrongs.

A three-inch vertical downpipe can carry an immense amount of water.

Equally, a 4-inch drain with a very small fall, leading into the stormwater drain or sewer can carry an awful lot of water. Are you sure the trap of the gully isn't full with silt? Or perhaps there is a blockage somewhere else in the system?

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

Goldengirl

TheW1zard wrote: »

When i was looking for a house we saw one we liked. We walked away from it though because the neighbour when buikding their extension had done something similar.
Would drive me mad and no way youd get permission to do so.
What to do in your case im not sure but defo taking the piss imo.

They didn't have planning as it was only a conservatory , and a porch at the front .
Joke is they put in a new drain and downpipe in the porch , probably the same stuff they took off the back !

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

They’ve had the pipes done and there are no blockages, and they’ve seen what the neighbours have done. I’d change no pipes.

Goldengirl

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

It's not, it's a standard pipe and is now fitted into a new drain cover.
Even with ordinary rainfall I can hear it dripping long after the shower has gone and that is going on for years ,
That was what I asked them about a few years back .

mickdw

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I second this.

Something is blocking the flow if a downpipe can't handle rainfall.

Would it be that big a deal to change the pipe if it was undersized?

If its the gully that cant handle it, its possible that cleaning could help but id disagree that the downpupe itself could carry twice ita expected flow without issue.
Building Regulations clearly detail roof areas that may be drained into the various downpipe sizes.
They could surely have arranged a surface water
Connection when building extension but instead they decided to not worry about it and instead take the piss and threw all the water over on you.

Goldengirl

sydthebeat wrote: »

A pic would be very helpful

Will try and put one up tomorrow.

Goldengirl

mickdw wrote: »

If its the gully that cant handle it, its possible that cleaning could help but id disagree that the downpupe itself could carry twice ita expected flow without issue.
Building Regulations clearly detail roof areas that may be drained into the various downpipe sizes.
They could surely have arranged a surface water
Connection when building extension but instead they decided to not worry about it and instead take the piss and threw all the water over on you.

Yes afraid so.
Upset that in all the years of being a good neighbour that this was the case and only finding out now . Very upsetting .
Is it true that because it is like that now for 18 years we can not ask them to change it back ?

Gumbo

OP you need to post a pic.

Most rows of houses will share downpipes. Not every house gets their own pipe so the neighbor may have done nothing wrong.

elperello

Gumbo wrote: »

OP you need to post a pic.

Most rows of houses will share downpipes. Not every house gets their own pipe so the neighbor may have done nothing wrong.

A pic would help.

Where houses share a downpipe the maintenance of the pipe and fittings and the drain is a shared responsibility.

Reading the OP I'm not sure that this was a shared downpipe when the houses were constructed. It seems that the neighbour removed his own downpipe and diverted his roof water to the OP's property.

If this is the case the OP should in the first instance seek to resolve the matter amicably with the neighbour. Failing that take legal advice.

Pkiernan

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

Markcheese

Pkiernan wrote: »

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

I was thinking that ... But depending on the scenario , the water overflowing the gutter could well just splash down your wall ( and it's a shared wall anyway)
It could even be the builder or whoever rerouted your neighbours pipe just did it without telling them , and if it didn't cause them an issue ,your neighbours wouldn't worry ,

phormium

It's a wonder it all comes your direction if there were originally two gutters and downpipes as surely the fall on their side of the gutter should be towards the previous downpipe and you'd imagine it would just spill out their side rather than flow to yours unless of course the fall of the guttering was corrected and made go to your side.

My theory behind this is I have a long bungalow with guttering all along the back and one downpipe however somewhere when being built the guttering was sloped towards the downpipe alright but only from about halfway along the house, the other half of the gutter slopes to the other side where there is no downpipe and in the bad rain like last week the water pours out over that gutter outside my bedroom window like a waterfall! It's like the gutter is slightly propped up in the middle of it's 50ft length and water flows to both sides rather than just the one with the downpipe. I'll have to have it fixed as it's getting worse but unless your neighbours deliberately changed the fall of the gutter to get to your side I'm surprised it's not just pouring out over their edge as I presume it should have flowed that direction day one to their downpipe.

Seth Brundle

In fairness, it can't be that bad if it took you 18 years to realise the issue. It's presumably too late to complain to your neighbour

Goldengirl

Markcheese wrote: »

I was thinking that ... But depending on the scenario , the water overflowing the gutter could well just splash down your wall ( and it's a shared wall anyway)
It could even be the builder or whoever rerouted your neighbours pipe just did it without telling them , and if it didn't cause them an issue ,your neighbours wouldn't worry ,

No they would have known because the drain would have been in their conservatory if they had left it .
So they took the cheapest and easiest option instead of rerouting the drain .
The houses are built with separate drainpipe and drains, I have checked with our other neighbours who are friends .

Goldengirl

Seth Brundle wrote: »

In fairness, it can't be that bad if it took you 18 years to realise the issue. It's presumably too late to complain to your neighbour

I explained why it took that long .
It was draining into an old path with grass and gravel and overflow didn't bother us or we didn't notice it so much .
Notice it now be ause all the overflow is landing on new paving.
Only thing I noticed was the amount of water pouring from it and the noise , which I did ask about .

So is it too late to do anything about it ?

Goldengirl

phormium wrote: »

It's a wonder it all comes your direction if there were originally two gutters and downpipes as surely the fall on their side of the gutter should be towards the previous downpipe and you'd imagine it would just spill out their side rather than flow to yours unless of course the fall of the guttering was corrected and made go to your side.

My theory behind this is I have a long bungalow with guttering all along the back and one downpipe however somewhere when being built the guttering was sloped towards the downpipe alright but only from about halfway along the house, the other half of the gutter slopes to the other side where there is no downpipe and in the bad rain like last week the water pours out over that gutter outside my bedroom window like a waterfall! It's like the gutter is slightly propped up in the middle of it's 50ft length and water flows to both sides rather than just the one with the downpipe. I'll have to have it fixed as it's getting worse but unless your neighbours deliberately changed the fall of the gutter to get to your side I'm surprised it's not just pouring out over their edge as I presume it should have flowed that direction day one to their downpipe.

They got their gutters changed when doing this so I would imagine they did change the fall as they don't seem to have any puddles on that side, from what I can see standing on a ladder in the rain!

elperello

Goldengirl wrote: »

I explained why it took that long .
It was draining into an old path with grass and gravel and overflow didn't bother us .
Only thing I noticed was the amount of water pouring from it and the noise , which I did ask about .

So is it too late to do anything about it ?

Certainly not too late.

This is not a planning matter.

Don't interfere with the neighbours property.

You will have to talk to the neighbours. Be friendly but firm. Decide what you want to say and stick to that.

If you can't reach an agreement get legal advice.

TheW1zard

Can you redo the fall/so it falls from the middle away to both sides? Ie raise centre

Goldengirl

elperello wrote: »

Certainly not too late.

This is not a planning matter.

Don't interfere with the neighbours property.

You will have to talk to the neighbours. Be friendly but firm. Decide what you want to say and stick to that.

If you can't reach an agreement get legal advice.

Thanks .
Will discuss with my husband and decide what to do .
We will have to address it sooner rather than later .
Worried that it may be an issue if we ever decide to sell as a poster said yesterday .

Goldengirl

TheW1zard wrote: »

Can you redo the fall/so it falls from the middle away to both sides? Ie raise centre

Would have our roof draining into their non existent down pipe then !
Might force the issue but not sure about it .
An other remedy would be to separate our gutters entirely with dividers , as said by pkiernan .
That would force them to sort their own drain out but worried about grief , tbh .

Goldengirl

Pkiernan wrote: »

Just put a divider in the gutter at the boundary.

Can we do that ? I mean would we be allowed ?
Would we have to ask permission ?

elperello

Goldengirl wrote: »

Can we do that ? I mean would we be allowed ?
Would we have to ask permission ?

You would be best advised not to do that.

The backed up water could damage their property making the situation between you even worse.

It might even damage your property.

BryanF

OP
This is a civil mater.
See if you can sort this amicably with your neighbour

Otherwise seek legal advice.

Btw, did it dawn on the patio installer to add a drain? Is it possible to install a drain line at this stage?

Del Boy

Simply mention to the neighbours that your drainage system has struggled with recent downpours. You had someone take a look .......and were advised that your downpipe is actually taking the load of both houses......Bla Bla Bla ......You must have made the mistake of not reinstalling a downpipe 18 years ago, an innocent error no doubt (NOT) ......Bla Bla Bla ......Can we agree on the end of September to put one in place before winter and storms etc.....Thanks and be friendly.


By end of Sept stick in a divider at boundary. They have a month to sort it. If they ignore you it's their problem.

Keep it friendly. Set a timeframe. If they don't sort it by that date then act yourself. And never mention it again.

Ginger83

Del Boy wrote: »

Simply mention to the neighbours that your drainage system has struggled with recent downpours. You had someone take a look .......and were advised that your downpipe is actually taking the load of both houses......Bla Bla Bla ......You must have made the mistake of not reinstalling a downpipe 18 years ago, an innocent error no doubt (NOT) ......Bla Bla Bla ......Can we agree on the end of September to put one in place before winter and storms etc.....Thanks and be friendly.


By end of Sept stick in a divider at boundary. They have a month to sort it. If they ignore you it's their problem.

Keep it friendly. Set a timeframe. If they don't sort it by that date then act yourself. And never mention it again.

Make sure you put the divider just inside your boundary so it cannot be removed by your neighbour

maestroamado

It seems unlikely that rain water could cause this, sometimes if guttering not placed correctly the force of the water coming down the roof can be thrown over guttering. I suspect this be more the problem...

Goldengirl

BryanF wrote: »

OP
This is a civil mater.
See if you can sort this amicably with your neighbour

Otherwise seek legal advice.

Btw, did it dawn on the patio installer to add a drain? Is it possible to install a drain line at this stage?

No we have a drain and a properly fitted gulley drain in the patio. We also cleared all of the gutters and down pipes last month
The overflow is when there is a big down pour and it is from the gutter hitting the ground like a shower onto the now paved area.
Loads of water going down the drainpipe and draining away as well , no problem.
He was the one who told us what our neighbours had done , or hinted at it .

When you say a civil matter do you mean there is no regulation that they have breached that we can report , but that we may have to take them to court ?
I don't think I could do that .

Goldengirl

elperello wrote: »

You would be best advised not to do that.

The backed up water could damage their property making the situation between you even worse.

It might even damage your property.

Yes I don't think I have the face to do that . Although they didn't think of us when they did what they did.

Goldengirl

One last question ...if we do say it to them would the option be that they redo their side and reinstate their drain...
Or we will separate our gutters from theirs , permanently?
Would this be allowed ?

fritzelly

Goldengirl wrote: »

One last question ...if we do say it to them would the option be that they redo their side and reinstate their drain...
Or we will separate our gutters from theirs , permanently?
Would this be allowed ?

Check your deeds

Del Boy

Goldengirl wrote: »

One last question ...if we do say it to them would the option be that they redo their side and reinstate their drain...
Or we will separate our gutters from theirs , permanently?
Would this be allowed ?

You said originally that each property had a down pipe. When they extended theirs was removed and builder put their drainage into your downpipe.

Get it back to original situation.

Just blame recent storms. Your drain is overflowing.....bla bla bla.

Blame the builder. Just say to the neighbours that perhaps they weren't aware the builder did this.

Ask nicely....please remedy it. Our system isn't coping. Ask it done before winter.

End of story. Otherwise just live with it.

Gumbo

fritzelly wrote: »

Check your deeds

Deeds won’t show this information.

the_pen_turner

There is definitely something wrong if a 3 inch pipe cant take the water. It's only 2 town houses.
My uncle has a 7 span shed 36foot sheeting each side and 2 4 inch pipes on each side. They have no problem taking the water. .

Goldengirl

Del Boy wrote: »

You said originally that each property had a down pipe. When they extended theirs was removed and builder put their drainage into your downpipe.

Get it back to original situation.

Just blame recent storms. Your drain is overflowing.....bla bla bla.

Blame the builder. Just say to the neighbours that perhaps they weren't aware the builder did this.

Ask nicely....please remedy it. Our system isn't coping. Ask it done before winter.

End of story. Otherwise just live with it.

So we don't have a right to have it reinstated? Or do you say this is what we should do to ease the situation?

Goldengirl

the_pen_turner wrote: »

There is definitely something wrong if a 3 inch pipe cant take the water. It's only 2 town houses.
My uncle has a 7 span shed 36foot sheeting each side and 2 4 inch pipes on each side. They have no problem taking the water. .

This would be draining around 19 foot of roof into our drain , where before there were 2 drains .
I get the impression that some of you think we should alter our gutters and our drain to accomodate their drainage .
We may very well end up doing that for the sake of peace .
But if this comes back to bite us in the future, as in selling or if they extend , and the run of guttering is longer draining into ours , I just want to know where we stand .

sydthebeat

does the neighbour have a stormwater gully in their path doing nothing??

Seth Brundle

Have you a picture of the drain pipe and where it meets the drain?
My semi-d property has the drain pipe (standard pipe @ 65mm diameter) for ours and our neighbours house and it manages absolutely fine.

Goldengirl

sydthebeat wrote: »

does the neighbour have a stormwater gully in their path doing nothing??

No .
They put that imprinted concrete right up the whole back and front , no drains or gulleys .

Edit. Think they have the actual original drain inside their conservatory, but not sure as a mat there .

Goldengirl

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Have you a picture of the drain pipe and where it meets the drain?
My semi-d property has the drain pipe (standard pipe @ 65mm diameter) for ours and our neighbours house and it manages absolutely fine.

The problem is the water overshooting from the top.
Drain and drainpipe is working .
I have pics and videos but am brutal at putting things up !

Del Boy

Goldengirl wrote: »

So we don't have a right to have it reinstated? Or do you say this is what we should do to ease the situation?

Get it put back to original set up.

Tell them to sort out their drainage for their house.

If water is overflowing from gutter then they probably need cleaning.

The neighbours were taking the pi** 18 years ago to remove their downpipe and let their drainage water flow into your side/system.

Ask them to sort it out and reinstall a downpipe for their house.

Goldengirl

Del Boy wrote: »

Get it put back to original set up.

Tell them to sort out their drainage for their house.

If water is overflowing from gutter then they probably need cleaning.

The neighbours were taking the pi** 18 years ago to remove their downpipe and let their drainage water flow into your side/system.

Ask them to sort it out and reinstall a downpipe for their house.

Thanks .
I think we will have to think where we go from her alright.
I don't think leaving it is going to be an option and we don't want to be paying for remedial work now or in the future .
Just going to have to pluck up courage now so wish me luck !

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply .

maestroamado

Goldengirl wrote: »

The problem is the water overshooting from the top.
Drain and drainpipe is working .
I have pics and videos but am brutal at putting things up !

Its a minor problem and likely nothing to do with neighbor changes, though he should not have done without your permission its not important enough to fall-out about.
These gutters are 100mm/4in +. The bottom of the slates needs be around the centre of this so the water goes into gutter, if it farther out the force of the water will cause to spill over the top.
You will get a good idea by looking up at the end at what point the water enters gully, if you cannot see need a ladder.

You will likely need a gutter guy to repair, when were the gutters cleaned as this could also cause this problem.

housetypeb

Tell your neighbor that you're dealing with the water from your own roof overflowing, thinking of putting in a new gutter slightly higher than original to catch any overshoot and putting a stopper where the boundary line is.
That may stir him to deal with his problem of what to do with the water off of his roof then.

kevgaa

Hi OP,

I think you need to be very careful in this situation. I appreciate you are frustrated but have you checked the set-up on neighbouring houses?

In my estate there is only one down pipe at the back of each of our houses for each pair of semi detached houses. Each house has the drain in the ground but the builders only installed one down pipe so you may be blaming your neighbour for removing something that never existed.

Why would a conservatory mean removing and reinstalling a gutter on the roof? What's the advantage in what being alledged here? Seems like more work as the drains angle would need to have been realigned.

Op, please just walk outside with your phone and take a picture

the_pen_turner

Goldengirl wrote: »

This would be draining around 19 foot of roof into our drain , where before there were 2 drains .
I get the impression that some of you think we should alter our gutters and our drain to accomodate their drainage .
We may very well end up doing that for the sake of peace .
But if this comes back to bite us in the future, as in selling or if they extend , and the run of guttering is longer draining into ours , I just want to know where we stand .

I dont think you should have to alter the drains to suit them . Let them manage their own water. You may have to do that to keep the peace.

My point is that a 3 inch down pipe should take the water. Assuming the roof is 20foot long and 20 foot wide that's 400 sq feet. Same for your roof makes it 800 sq feet.
My uncle is putting 4000 sq feet into 2 4 inch pipes handily. You have other issues with the guttering potentially