pharmacies and drug laws?

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 06:45PM

Water John wrote: »

One over dose of paracetemol can damage you liver TMK. Takes a long time drinking alcohol to achieve that.

so your saying a person that drinks 1500ml of alcohol in 1-5 minutes(chuging) is less damaging than paracetemol? How do you know this?

When you say "Takes a long time drinking alcohol to achieve that" you seem to be equating (paracetemol) "abuse" with "normal" alcohol consumption levels which are obviously not equal.

abuse of any drug is dangerous, I just cannot understand way one legal and deadly drug can be bought without issue but something like a (parama validated non drowsy histamine like zertec) can only be bought in the pharmacy.

I mean how can zertec or asprin harm you? even "dioralyte" an electrolyte is in the "locked box".

am i really naive or can these things really be abused? I really don't know.

is pharmacy policy telling me, your all crazed drug fiends that need everything to be locked away? even things you literally cannot get high off?

I mean how can you abuse eletrolytes?

22-08-2020 07:00PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

so your saying a person that drinks 1500ml of alcohol in 1-5 minutes(chuging) is less damaging than paracetemol? How do you know this?

You are almost guaranteed to puke the alcohol up if you can even get it down in the first place.

22-08-2020 07:09PM

global23214124 wrote: »

My doctor prescribed me 100 pills of paracetamol for when i had a stomach bug a few months ago (along with relevant meds). Didn't realise it was so dangerous in high amounts. Didn't take much of it to be fair as the other stuff did the job but I'll be weary from now on.

It's fine as long as you don't take more than 8 tabs a day.

22-08-2020 07:11PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

so your saying a person that drinks 1500ml of alcohol in 1-5 minutes(chuging) is less damaging than paracetemol? How do you know this?

When you say "Takes a long time drinking alcohol to achieve that" you seem to be equating (paracetemol) "abuse" with "normal" alcohol consumption levels which are obviously not equal.

abuse of any drug is dangerous, I just cannot understand way one legal and deadly drug can be bought without issue but something like a (parama validated non drowsy histamine like zertec) can only be bought in the pharmacy.

I mean how can zertec or asprin harm you? even "dioralyte" an electrolyte is in the "locked box".

am i really naive or can these things really be abused? I really don't know.

is pharmacy policy telling me, your all crazed drug fiends that need everything to be locked away? even things you literally cannot get high off?

I mean how can you abuse eletrolytes?

Aspirin is quite a dangerous medication. Can lead to massive GI bleeds.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 07:15PM

Dangelo Itchy Crossbones wrote: »

You are almost guaranteed to puke the alcohol up if you can even get it down in the first place.

you see "are almost guaranteed" is a claim, anyone can make a claim.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/man-died-after-10-shot-party-trick-1.875864

I remember this case because it really shocked me at the time, the barman was charged with manslaugher for poring the stated size of whiskey.

Also when you say "puke" it up, that's actually the most common way to die from alcohol. you puke in your sleep and drown.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 07:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Aspirin is quite a dangerous medication. Can lead to massive GI bleeds.

The study I asked you for was the one where you claim "when the person realises they can't get 2 packs, they can't be arsed going to another pharmacy to get more paracetamol"

I will suspend all discussion with you until you can prove this claim.

lawrencesummers · 22-08-2020 07:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are buying co-codamol for pain relief. You probably need to get to the root cause of your pain. Especially if you have a "go to" strategy for obtaining said addictive substance.

I probably don’t need to get to the root cause. I know full well what the root cause is.

22-08-2020 07:39PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

The study I asked you for was the one where you claim "when the person realises they can't get 2 packs, they can't be arsed going to another pharmacy to get more paracetamol"

I will suspend all discussion with you until you can prove this claim.

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/105/1/41/1558109

Look, you extrapolate the point from the reference sources I've provided. It's not my fault for your lack of understanding/ignorance.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 07:52PM

Ashlyn Flabby Accountant wrote: »

That’s nothing to do with protecting people etc it’s because the pseudoephedrine gets extracted to make meth.

You can buy a packet of 200 ibuprofen or paracetamol off the shelf no problem over there which would be unheard of in Ireland.

Ireland is overly strict though even compared to other European countries where you can get plenty off the shelf that’s prescription here (and far more expansive). There are pain killers I use that are prescription only and I can buy a box of 100 for pittance off the shelf in Spain.

Pkiernan & Alec Worried Shredder do you mind explaining this a bit more. your saying you cannot buy Sudafed because its used in drug making?

I listen to Joe Rogan+others and they frequently talk about taking over the counter sleeping pills so I don't understand why sudafed would be an issue.
i just googled it (sudafed).

Also Pkiernan if your in the usa, is it true that in states where cannabis is only medically legal, the weed shops employee doctors to sign "prescriptions" or is that nonsense?

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 07:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/105/1/41/1558109

Look, you extrapolate the point from the reference sources I've provided. It's not my fault for your lack of understanding/ignorance.

It's not my fault

I never said anything was your fault. don't be mean! these's no need to insult my intelligence "your lack of understanding/ignorance"

for all else see my previous post.

odyssey06 · 22-08-2020 08:03PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

Pkiernan & Ashlyn Flabby Accountant do you mind explaining this a bit more. your saying you cannot buy Sudafed because its used in drug making?
I listen to Joe Rogan+others and they frequently talk about taking over the counter sleeping pills so I don't understand why sudafed would be an issue.
i just googled it (sudafed).
Also Pkiernan if your in the usa, is it true that in states where cannabis is only medically legal, the weed shops employee doctors to sign "prescriptions" or is that nonsense?

Sudafed can be used to make methamphetamine \ crystal meth by amateur chemists.

Sarn · 22-08-2020 08:04PM

Pseudoephedrine in Sudafed is used to make crystal meth which is why it is prohibited in certain countries.

22-08-2020 08:05PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sudafed can be used to make methamphetamine \ crystal meth by amateur chemists.

Via the red, white and blue method.

22-08-2020 08:08PM

I used to work in a library, where people asked all sorts of queries. On the 1980s a lady (of not much education) brought in two different brands of paracetamol she had got in a then dodgy pharmacy (long since closed down) and was going to take the tablets simultaneously. She wanted a second opinion about the wisdom of taking such as she lived alone and had nobody else to ask. I knew of the acute damage to the liver it could do and told her immediately never ever to take two brands of paracetamol simultaneously and to scrutinise packets of medicines closely and read the info. There were far fewer regulations back then. The lady then told me she already had severe liver problems. The fact that regulations have become ever more stringent can only be a good thing and must have saved quite a number of lives. That lady lived many more years and always thanked me for pointing out the dangers of the medicine.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 08:13PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Sudafed can be used to make methamphetamine \ crystal meth by amateur chemists.

ok that really makes sense!

so do you think the reason these seemingly simple drugs like
asprin/dioralyte(there just my WFT examples, like I cannot see anyway they can be abused)
are use to make serious drugs?

That actually would really explain it and if that is the case then fair enough, you would have totally answered my post!

my only question (any you don't have to mention any specifics)
is it really possible to get something out of zertec ?

like how? ok lets just say its drowsy but booze is drowsy. why cant you buy zertec in tesco or dunnes?

odyssey06 · 22-08-2020 08:21PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

ok that really makes sense!
so do you think the reason these seemingly simple drugs like
asprin/dioralyte(there just my WFT examples, like I cannot see anyway they can be abused)
are use to make serious drugs?
That actually would really explain it and if that is the case then fair enough, you would have totally answered my post!
my only question (any you don't have to mention any specifics)
is it really possible to get something out of zertec ?
like how? ok lets just say its drowsy but booze is drowsy. why cant you buy zertec in tesco or dunnes?

The effects of alcohol are well known \ publicised.
We have drink driving laws.

I don't have a definitive answer re: antihistamines.
In and of themselves they should be harmless.
But they do have subtle contra-indications with other medicines which may not be knownÞstood by the average purchaser.
Also, first generation anti-histamines were drowsy and it could be the regs haven't been updated because there's been no push for it.

Dioralytes. I remember ALDI selling electolytes which are the same really.
The reason could be as mundane as supermarkets don't regularly stock it not for legal reasons but because they don't see a market \ markup in it.

Aspirin... actually the more I think about it these have way more side effects and contra-indications than paracetamol.
On reflection, it probably shouldn't be sold in supermarkets.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 08:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to work in a library...

wow! that's unreal! I think this is a good story, you should be very proud!!!

I'm a mathematician/computer scientist by profession. i know were considered "cold" but i started this post because the scale of regulation in a pharmacy is just odd to me, now if something is odd to me, then its really really odd. so I just want to know how other people feel about it.

22-08-2020 08:53PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

wow! that's unreal! I think this is a good story, you should be very proud!!!

I'm a mathematician/computer scientist by profession. i know were considered "cold" but i started this post because the scale of regulation in a pharmacy is just odd to me, now if something is odd to me, then its really really odd. so I just want to know how other people feel about it.

Patient safety is odd to you?

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 09:10PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

...

can i assume your a pharmacologist?

so in your last post you seemed to indicate aspirin has correlating effects.
I totally understand that but how do you balance that with statistical knowledge of average drug abuse in Ireland?

do you medically just pretend its not real?

otherwise your telling me the average irish person has a "known" interaction to all medication? where is the data?

How can you tell if they did 100 lines of whatever and/or cant have access to x?

does that make sense?

odyssey06 · 22-08-2020 09:20PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

can i assume your a pharmacologist?
so in your last post you seemed to indicate aspirin has correlating effects.
I totally understand that but how do you balance that with statistical knowledge of average drug abuse in Ireland?
do you medically just pretend its not real?
otherwise your telling me the average irish person has a "known" interaction to all medication? where is the data?
How can you tell if they did 100 lines of whatever and/or cant have access to x?
does that make sense?

I'm not a pharmacologist... maybe that's why I don't fully understand your questions!

What I will say if I am not approaching it as an expert.

I am approaching it from the perspective of the average citizen and what are the likely gaps in their knowledge when it comes to medicines.
Or even, me as a 20 year old.
I knew that taking too many paracetamol, or way over the dosage of any medication is risky.
I knew that there is a limit to how much alcohol you can handle and also its effects in relation to driving, operating machinery etc

What I didn't know... and wouldn't know buying these meds in a supermarket:
That paracetamol was also in other OTC medicines.
The difference between first and second generation antihistamines, and their interactions with other meds.
That you shouldn't take sudafed going to bed.
The effects of aspirin & ibuprofen on stomach v paracetamol.
The effect of aspirin in relation to other meds, or on blood thinning.

Some of the above you weren't informed about in pharmacies back in the day...

22-08-2020 09:21PM

Ceterizine is a non sedating antihistamine. There is no abuse potential. It can be sold in a supermarket/corner store.

The Hound Gone Wild · 22-08-2020 09:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ceterizine is a non sedating antihistamine. There is no abuse potential. It can be sold in a supermarket/corner store.

It can't it's still PO at the moment.

22-08-2020 10:28PM

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

It can't it's still PO at the moment.

That's gas. Ilast time I worked in community was a lucum back in the UK. I don't see any reason why ceterizine can't be OTC.

https://www.medicines.ie/medicines/zirtek-allergy-relief-10-mg-film-coated-tablets-otc--34348/company-info

??

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 10:28PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's because people would "do away" with themselves if they could buy 2 packs in the same shop. If they had to go to 2 shops and buy a pack in each they would be perfectly safe...at least that's their idiotic plan.

but where do you think is comes from?

so a politician asks an "advisor" (professor, pharmacist, ?), they get
professional/expert advice, ok! but how can they not see a glaring
contradiction in that you can buy volumes of booze, no question.
but a cough syrup? dioralyte (electrolyte) is locked up?

Now that government (not necessary the same minster) is 100%
aware of illegal drug use.

I know people that do illegal drugs and they tell me, they use the web/dark web and someone drives it to them.

I assume the nation crime agency is aware of this!

On one hand the state is (IMHO) saying "your not capable of deciding" you need a pharmacist with a locked window.
yet the other part of the state(national crime agency) is saying "drugs are rampant, we have to fight it"

How do GP's/Pharmacist/Garda rationalize this?

I still don't understand why "Dioralyte" is in the locked windows? electrolyte are just essential salts/minerals how can that be abused?

ok maybe in extreme cases of diarrhea, I could see electrolyte abuse but that is mild in comparison to even moderate alcohol abuse, which you an freely buy in Tesco.

global23214124 · 22-08-2020 10:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's fine as long as you don't take more than 8 tabs a day.

Yeah I've read the instructions before and no the drill. Just considering a hypothetical where I'm in pain and might take more to relieve it. Just something I hadn't thought about before I guess.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 10:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Patient safety is odd to you?

The study I asked you for was the one where you claim "when the person realises they can't get 2 packs, they can't be arsed going to another pharmacy to get more paracetamol"

I will suspend all discussion with you until you can prove this claim.

global23214124 · 22-08-2020 10:56PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

The study I asked you for was the one where you claim "when the person realises they can't get 2 packs, they can't be arsed going to another pharmacy to get more paracetamol"

I will suspend all discussion with you until you can prove this claim.

I think Doctor/Pharmacy shopping is common enough if the patient actually "needs it" in their own mind. Can't be arsed will handle a lot of folk but I imagine some will make the effort.

ygolometsipe · 22-08-2020 11:07PM

global23214124 wrote: »

I think Doctor/Pharmacy shopping is common enough if the patient actually "needs it" in their own mind. Can't be arsed will handle a lot of folk but I imagine some will make the effort.

I don't mean any disrespect to pharmacologist. I am just flabbergasted buy this system. I need to visit a pharma to buy electrolytes (just an example) but I can buy a lethal amount of alcohol in Tesco, no question
* two packs of paracetamol will be questioned!
* two packets of rennie (heatburn tablets ) will be questioned

but no question on alcohol.

They sell "child locks" on detergents? but you can buy as many as you want.
Eat 20 of them and tell me if your still alive.

global23214124 · 22-08-2020 11:12PM

ygolometsipe wrote: »

I don't mean any disrespect to pharmacologist. I am just flabbergasted buy this system. I need to visit a pharma to buy electrolytes (just an example) but I can buy a lethal amount of alcohol in Tesco, no question
* two packs of paracetamol will be questioned!
* two packets of rennie (heatburn tablets ) will be questioned

but no question on alcohol.

They sell "child locks" on detergents? but you can buy as many as you want.
Eat 20 of them and tell me if your still alive.

Yeah I agree with you. Across all the legal "drugs" you can get with or without prescription there is no balance. In America you can you buy a 100 pack of ibuprofen for like 5 dollars and nobody bats an eyelid (coming form 5 years ago experience, assuming its still the same now). Alcohol is just weirdly socially acceptable.

General question for all. Does Ireland have a problem with prescription meds?

22-08-2020 11:35PM

global23214124 wrote: »

Yeah I agree with you. Across all the legal "drugs" you can get with or without prescription there is no balance. In America you can you buy a 100 pack of ibuprofen for like 5 dollars and nobody bats an eyelid (coming form 5 years ago experience, assuming its still the same now). Alcohol is just weirdly socially acceptable.

General question for all. Does Ireland have a problem with prescription meds?

Benzos -Yes. Tranax is a curse.

pharmacies and drug laws?

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