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the semantics of the British Isles

  • 21-08-2020 04:50AM
    #1
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,895 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Saw this mentioned on BBC News yesterday,

    Earliest art in the British Isles discovered on Jersey
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53835146
    Fragments of stone engraved with abstract designs are the earliest known art in the British Isles, researchers say.

    They were made by hunter-gatherers who lived between 23,000 and 14,000 years ago on what is now Jersey.

    the thing is, according to my understanding, the Channel Islands aren't part of 'The British Isles' (unlike Ireland), and at the time Jersey wasn't an island anyway, it was still part of France...

    channel-islands-map1.gif


    that's leaving aside the whole issue of the 'art' that was supposedly found, these are no cave paintings, or anything like it...



    _114030463_plaquette2interpretation-possiblerepresenations2.jpg
    Some possible interpretations of engravings on one of the plaquettes


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    14,000 years ago there was no Britain, France or national boundaries as we understand them today. The news article is simply using the currently accepted naming convention for the discovery location, what's the issue?

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #3
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Meanwhile on boards.co.uk.................

    "Brexitman6473: Why do they call it the Irish sea? I mean we wuz the sea going, naval powerhouse, we went over to Air-Uh and gave them civilisation, the language, now look at em! Surely it shoulda been called the English Sea or Her Majesty's Waterway or summink??"


  • #4
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,895 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    14,000 years ago there was no Britain, France or national boundaries as we understand them today. The news article is simply using the currently accepted naming convention for the discovery location, what's the issue?

    British Isles is a geographical term, it encompasses Great Britain, Ireland, and their associated minor islands.
    Jersey, Gurnsey, etc. would be geographically French, or European islands, not associated with this archipelago..


  • #5
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    British Isles is a geographical term, it encompasses Great Britain, Ireland, and their associated minor islands.
    Jersey, Gurnsey, etc. would be geographically French, or European islands, not associated with this archipelago..

    It's a political term not geographical and we really should be moving past it. It belongs in the past.


  • #6
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,124 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Who ****in cares?


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  • #7
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Who ****in cares?

    West Brits who wish we were still part of the empire and patriots who want us to move forward from under the colonial shadow.


  • #8
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Very Newtownbarry if you ask me.

    It's called "Môr Iwerddon" in Welsh.

    People need to get out more.

    There were 6 Celtic nations, Ireland, Scotland, Wales , Brittanny (as in west France), the Isle of man and Cornwall. Get over yourselves. ( ewch drosoch eich hunain in Welsh ).


  • #9
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,124 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    fixXxer wrote: »
    West Brits who wish we were still part of the empire and patriots who want us to move forward from under the colonial shadow.

    Try not to get an ulcer over it, you'll live longer.


  • #10
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Great Britain - Political Term

    British Isles - Geographical Term

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #11
    M.T. Cranium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,180 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.


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  • #12
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Try not to get an ulcer over it, you'll live longer.

    Keep commenting about things you don't care about ;)


  • #13
    Oglaigh84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭Oglaigh84


    fixXxer wrote: »
    It's a political term not geographical and we really should be moving past it.

    No its not and yes, you should move past it / get over it.
    no points for guessing what political party you vote for anyway


  • #14
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    The languages of Great Britain and Ireland.

    Auregnais, Cornish, English, French, Guernésiais, Irish, Jèrriais, Manx, Scots, Scottish Gaelic, Sercquiais, Shelta, Ulster-Scots, Welsh

    Don't lose your fillings eating too many toffees over those.


  • #15
    AMKC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    It's supposed to be a lovely island to visit. The parents were there some years back and really liked it.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • #16
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    Oglaigh84 wrote: »
    No its not and yes, you should move past it / get over it.
    no points for guessing what political party you vote for anyway

    You can guess if you want, I don't see how it's relevant though?

    Anything to contribute to the discussion besides strawman arguments?


  • #17
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.


    You don't have to call it either.

    What is wrong with "Ireland and Britain" or even "Ireland or Britain" if you are looking for a collective when discussing the weather.


  • #18
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    I am really struglging to see the point of this thread save that the OP is trolling via the Trojan Horse.


  • #19
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,124 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    fixXxer wrote: »
    Keep commenting about things you don't care about ;)

    Yep we should care what we call a bunch of islands more than a global pandemic, right?


  • #20
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.

    I would say that a name that is inclusive off all parts rather than something that gives the Brits hegemony over us all.

    Wiki mentions the ancient Greeks used to call this region the Pretanic Isles. It has a nice ring to it and appeals to the place name hipster in us all.


  • #21
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Yep we should care what we call a bunch of islands more than a global pandemic, right?

    It's is possible, even advisable, to care about more than one thing at once. To varying degrees even.


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  • #22
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.


    The Islands of Great Britain and Ireland.
    But if it's too much of a mouthful just say "British Isles" or "These Islands", or even "Western European Archipelago" if you want to bamboozle people.


  • #23
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.

    Britain and Ireland is probably best though I suppose you're leaving some islands out then.

    Haven't the Irish Government officially disavowed the term British Isles? I remember reading about it a while back. It definitely has political undertones whether intentional or not.


  • #24
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,396 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.

    I've never heard of any alternative geographical name, it's simple the British Isles, in the same way that Iberia or Scandinavia are geographical names for groups of countries. I'm sure if you looked into the etymology of those names there's probably something in them that some of the residents could take historical offence to, but obviously the history of Ireland and Britain is a bit more complicated. That said, all it is is naming a group of islands after its largest island, which just happens to be Britain. I don't think it's anything to lose any sleep over.


  • #25
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    Britain and Ireland is probably best though I suppose you're leaving some islands out then.

    Haven't the Irish Government officially disavowed the term British Isles? I remember reading about it a while back. It definitely has political undertones whether intentional or not.


    Yes and the UK Gov official policy is not to use the term. It has no legal basis or recognition whatsoever.

    Only a few hardcore loonies on Wikipedia insist on using as a wind up.


  • #26
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,516 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    So, semantics aside, what do you think of the plaquette? Nice discovery :)

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



  • #27
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Zaph wrote: »
    I've never heard of any alternative geographical name, it's simple the British Isles, in the same way that Iberia or Scandinavia are geographical names for groups of countries. I'm sure if you looked into the etymology of those names there's probably something in them that some of the residents could take historical offence to, but obviously the history of Ireland and Britain is a bit more complicated. That said, all it is is naming a group of islands after its largest island, which just happens to be Britain. I don't think it's anything to lose any sleep over.


    You have it one. Do you think there would be any problem with 'Spanish Peninsula or 'Swedish Scandinavia'?

    Personally I take exception to anyone refering to my country being part of the "Britsh Isles". I do not use the term and I do not recognise it.


  • #28
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    fixXxer wrote: »
    It's a political term not geographical and we really should be moving past it. It belongs in the past.

    It's not a political term


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    M.T. Cranium wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable term for British Isles in Irish terms? I often want to refer to weather patterns that affect the region that in my mind is "the British Isles" but I don't use the term as I think many Boards readers would find it objectionable. But I would like to use any acceptable alternative. Irish Isles sounds one step removed from an Australian beer commercial.
    Just Britain and Ireland, if you talk about a forecast for Ireland you don't say Irish Isles, it's just assumed that the islands are included


  • #30
    fixXxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,453 ✭✭✭fixXxer


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    It's not a political term

    It's a term that started when Ireland was invaded and taken over by the British, of course it's a political term.


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  • #31
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    A lot of Irish secretly love the term, and wish they could be back fully under Westminster rule!


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